Rumor: Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread: Still No Deal

[The Nuge]

Last few posts

What? They had Toews and then average for the rest of the centers. At least as long as those centers were there. They won the cup because of their top 4 d and Toews and Kane.

People have to look at it this way. As good Crosby-Malkin-Staal was who we have something similar to McDavid-Drai-RNH really only won one cup. I prefer Chicago's approach in that they established their D-core early. Keith-Seabrook-Hjalmarsson is what I think is comparable to Jones-Nurse-Klef in terms of potential. They were able to recognize who they were going with moving forward and won 3 cups. Sure they had Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Saad, and to an extent Ladd and Buff. But they also never had a #2C. They were able to fill in the wingers with free agents and prospects because they had the right core of players. Toews also came into the league without a #1C to mentor him and play the heavy minutes. So you have to all yourself is RNH is necessary when you have Drai and McDavid already doing the heavy lifting?

I simply don't see how a team that basically leaned on four guys on the blueline for the entire playoffs demonstrates the importance of depth unless we have different ideas about what that term means.

I see this too.

Hall is our Kane
McDavid is our Toews
And Drai? Drai is that fabled 2c that Chicago has been searching for forever. Or maybe Hossa

Nurse is our Keith, Klefbom is our Hammer... We just need our Seabrook.

No I'm not saying they are as good yet don't freak out guys.

What I'm saying is we need to follow the Chicago model.

3 forwards, 3 defense. Find good complimentary guys that can be cheap to fill in the rest.

They had 4 guys that all were capable of playing heavy minutes. That is top end depth.

When you have 4 d that can all play 25 minutes a night if needed, then having 2 guys that play 10 is fine.

It's top end depth, its still a form of depth. When one pairing is not rolling the second one can.

Click to read more...

 

[Samus44]

I see this too.

Hall is our Kane
McDavid is our Toews
And Drai? Drai is that fabled 2c that Chicago has been searching for forever. Or maybe Hossa

Nurse is our Keith, Klefbom is our Hammer... We just need our Seabrook.

No I'm not saying they are as good yet don't freak out guys.

What I'm saying is we need to follow the Chicago model.

3 forwards, 3 defense. Find good complimentary guys that can be cheap to fill in the rest.

Where's our Patrick Sharp? Brandon Saad? In other years they had Byfuglien, and Ladd play huge roles where are those guys? Heck where's our 6 million dollar goalie? You make it sound like they've had a bunch of average players besides those 6 and nothing could be further from the truth.

Chicago has had 3 very good lines and quality veteran depth to go with a constant stream of solid young players, we don't have the depth and constant stream of solid young players. Lander wasn't Krueger, Nikitin was no Roszival, we don't have a Shaw, a Richards won't sign here yet. Our "Keith" is years younger than when the real Keith was an NHLer. Klefbom isn't ready to play the same kind of minutes as a Hjammarstrom, who was eased into the role. We don't have any of the veteran support. Some of our top guns have underperformed but you don't win in the NHL with sub 23 year olds unless you have a strong support group behind and alongside them. Look at the age of Chicago's core when the won their first cup, you'll see that a 25 years old like Eberle wasn't their oldest star player. This team is far too young in terms of core to win now, especially when the most important piece for improvement has been hurt for most of the year now. I've been saying this for years, we have plenty of good players but not enough support and all of our good players are too young. Most teams would leverage these cheap young stars on ELC's to allow themselves to add the requisite veterans but playing in Edmonton can be a tough sell and the Oilers have made some ****** bets in which they often buy high.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Where's our Patrick Sharp? Brandon Saad? In other years they had Byfuglien, and Ladd play huge roles where are those guys? Heck where's our 6 million dollar goalie? You make it sound like they've had a bunch of average players besides those 6 and nothing could be further from the truth.

My point was all of those guys you mentioned were expendable.

Here we are addicted to keeping everyone and never changing.

They moved them to make room and gain assets to make way for other guys.

We move our extra core for guys like that.

 

[Samus44]

My point was all of those guys you mentioned were expendable.

Here we are addicted to keeping everyone and never changing.

They moved them to make room and gain assets to make way for other guys.

We move our extra core for guys like that.

Expendable? I'd say they were only expendable because Chicago managed to replace them. The first season after the contract fiasco saw them take iirc a pretty decent step back. Still they always had Hossa-Sharp-Toews-Kane, Sharp was no slouch. They always add a quality young player like a Saad or Panarin. Ladd and Byfuglien were huge in that first cup win. If you rob peter to pay paul you need to make sure you're getting value. I see people want to make sideways moves but then i see a team like the Islanders grow their core, people were getting impatient there too, and suddenly explode on the scene when they begin getting the depth and stream of young player i'm talking about and i think that's what we need to do. They didn't need to trade Frans Nielsen for a worse asset to improve, they needed to add to their core by moving non-core pieces.

 

[duul]

RNH and a pick to St. Louis for Shattenkirk and Backes (signed).

Fayne and a pick for Phaneuf with some retention. A reasonable amount.

Eberle, something, and Yakupov to Boston for Marchand, Beleskey, Eriksson.

Sign Steve Downie or Jamie McGinn.

Marchand-McDavid-Eriksson
Hall-Draisaitl-Downie
Beleskey-Backes-Pakarinen
Hendricks-Letestu-Khaira

Phaneuf-Shattenkirk
Klefbom-Sekera
Nurse-Davidson

 

[Canovin]

Expendable? I'd say they were only expendable because Chicago managed to replace them. The first season after the contract fiasco saw them take iirc a pretty decent step back. Still they always had Hossa-Sharp-Toews-Kane, Sharp was no slouch. They always add a quality young player like a Saad or Panarin. Ladd and Byfuglien were huge in that first cup win. If you rob peter to pay paul you need to make sure you're getting value. I see people want to make sideways moves but then i see a team like the Islanders grow their core, people were getting impatient there too, and suddenly explode on the scene when they begin getting the depth and stream of young player i'm talking about and i think that's what we need to do. They didn't need to trade Frans Nielsen for a worse asset to improve, they needed to add to their core by moving non-core pieces.

Isle were smart. They managed to sell a Musil for a RNH and Eberle

 

[Young Lions*]

Isle were smart. They managed to sell a Musil for a RNH and Eberle

Loooooooool. You're never gonna let his go are you. Ridiculous.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Expendable? I'd say they were only expendable because Chicago managed to replace them. The first season after the contract fiasco saw them take iirc a pretty decent step back. Still they always had Hossa-Sharp-Toews-Kane, Sharp was no slouch. They always add a quality young player like a Saad or Panarin. Ladd and Byfuglien were huge in that first cup win. If you rob peter to pay paul you need to make sure you're getting value. I see people want to make sideways moves but then i see a team like the Islanders grow their core, people were getting impatient there too, and suddenly explode on the scene when they begin getting the depth and stream of young player i'm talking about and i think that's what we need to do. They didn't need to trade Frans Nielsen for a worse asset to improve, they needed to add to their core by moving non-core pieces.

We are not looking at moving RNH for Lars Eller here. We are looking at moving them for defense or moving them for a package of character players who give a ****.

Eberle and RNH have lost too long and don't have the right mindset to lead a losing **** team to the promise land. They would fit great on a good team looking for that little extra.

That's not us. We are the **** team. We need strong character guys who play hard and understand what it takes to win. Those two are mostly all talk.

 

[Fourier]

RNH and a pick to St. Louis for Shattenkirk and Backes (signed).

Fayne and a pick for Phaneuf with some retention. A reasonable amount.

Eberle, something, and Yakupov to Boston for Marchand, Beleskey, Eriksson.

Sign Steve Downie or Jamie McGinn.

Marchand-McDavid-Eriksson
Hall-Draisaitl-Downie
Beleskey-Backes-Pakarinen
Hendricks-Letestu-Khaira

Phaneuf-Shattenkirk
Klefbom-Sekera
Nurse-Davidson

And you've just added about $12-14M to the cap by 2017 since Backes will be looking for similar money to RNH, Shattenkirk will likely get $6.5-7.5M at least and there is no way the Leafs retain much at all in your deal.

 

[duul]

And you've just added about $12-14M to the cap by 2017 since Backes will be looking for similar money to RNH, Shattenkirk will likely get $6.5-7.5M at least and there is no way the Leafs retain much at all in your deal.

Won't it be fine with the older contracts coming off the books? I figured it should be pretty close. Backes is a 3C on St. Louis I don't think he will be asking for 6M per.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

I think a RNH for a signed shattenkirk makes sense. Shattenkirk is looking at like what, 6 or 7 mil?

Seth Jones for RNH however, makes much more sense for both teams. Solid 2nd line center and lower end 1st line center with potential to be more, for a solid #3 dman with potential to grow into a #1 or #2 dman. Reasonable risk/reward for both sides.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I think a RNH for a signed shattenkirk makes sense. Shattenkirk is looking at like what, 6 or 7 mil?

Seth Jones for RNH however, makes much more sense for both teams. Solid 2nd line center and lower end 1st line center with potential to be more, for a solid #3 dman with potential to grow into a #1 or #2 dman. Reasonable risk/reward for both sides.

The trade gives us our best d man and then their best center. Jones is not their best d and RNH is not our best center.

 

[backhandsauce]

Keep Eberle and RNH for now. I'd like the see the team play with a full healthy roster. Maybe McDavid can turn Eberle into a 35-40 goal scorer.

Remember we haven't had a full healthy lineup since pre season.

Make a different move. A lateral move for now. Call Tampa, see if Coburn is available. Call Columbus, see if Hartnell is still availble etc.

Not keen on moving a core guy before McDavid gets back.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

The trade gives us our best d man and then their best center. Jones is not their best d and RNH is not our best center.

Okay what would you suggest then?

I think its highly unlikely that we actually get a #1 on the market. Might as well buy on some potential and hope he grows into it.

 

[Young Lions*]

I think a RNH for a signed shattenkirk makes sense. Shattenkirk is looking at like what, 6 or 7 mil?

Seth Jones for RNH however, makes much more sense for both teams. Solid 2nd line center and lower end 1st line center with potential to be more, for a solid #3 dman with potential to grow into a #1 or #2 dman. Reasonable risk/reward for both sides.

I'll ask the same question here I keep asking: on a team with two pretty high end D prospects in Klef and Nurse that's lacking in veteran presence on the blue, how does adding more youth and potential in that area help us in the short term?

If that trade happened, your top four D next season would be:

Klef(23)-Jones(22)
Nurse(21)-Sekera(30)

That's certainly a less experienced group than what we have today. Would be dynamite in a few years, sure, but I don't see going all in on youth on the blue line and up the middle being a recipe for turning the ship around in short order.

 

[longtimeoilfan]

I think a RNH for a signed shattenkirk makes sense. Shattenkirk is looking at like what, 6 or 7 mil?

Seth Jones for RNH however, makes much more sense for both teams. Solid 2nd line center and lower end 1st line center with potential to be more, for a solid #3 dman with potential to grow into a #1 or #2 dman. Reasonable risk/reward for both sides.

While I don't entirely disagree... I would like to see the Oil acquire an established dman. Seth would be great, but there might be better - more established - options.

I also noticed that in pre-game comments Todd was consistently referring to 'Nuge' as his 5'10'' Center... this is different than the 6'0'' the Oilers site has him listed as. Eberle also referred to himself as "not big," and said that despite his lack of size he needs to find ways to score. Todd didn't throw either of them under the bus (so to speak), in fact he supported 'Nuge,' but I think the writing is on the wall and the players are seeing it as well. Or, I am reading too much into their comments...

 

[Forgot About Drai]

I'll ask the same question here I keep asking: on a team with two pretty high end D prospects in Klef and Nurse that's lacking in veteran presence on the blue, how does adding more youth and potential in that area help us in the short term?

If that trade happened, your top four D next season would be:

Klef(23)-Jones(22)
Nurse(21)-Sekera(30)

That's certainly a less experienced group than what we have today. Would be dynamite in a few years, sure, but I don't see going all in on youth on the blue line and up the middle being a recipe for turning the ship around in short order.

Very good point.

But we did get Sekera a good veteran dman during free agency. Although, I dont think we should go big fish hunting again like that, Im sure there are a few bargain deals out there for veteran dmen.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Okay what would you suggest then?

I think its highly unlikely that we actually get a #1 on the market. Might as well buy on some potential and hope he grows into it.

No. I'm suggesting its good. Each team moves out their 3rd best something for their best something else. It's a good deal.

 

[Young Lions*]

Very good point.

But we did get Sekera a good veteran dman during free agency. Although, I dont think we should go big fish hunting again like that, Im sure there are a few bargain deals out there for veteran dmen.

Sure, but then you're sticking a young stud D on the bottom pairing. Who draws the short straw there?

My preference is to go all in on Buff. Failing that, if you can get a serviceable vet to fill in on the right side (say, Christian Ehrhoff or Travis Hamonic ) you do that, but trading Nuge for Jones is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Jones is going to be a heckuva player, but I don't see the fit.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

While I don't entirely disagree... I would like to see the Oil acquire an established dman. Seth would be great, but there might be better - more established - options.

I also noticed that in pre-game comments Todd was consistently referring to 'Nuge' as his 5'10'' Center... this is different than the 6'0'' the Oilers site has him listed as. Eberle also referred to himself as "not big," and said that despite his lack of size he needs to find ways to score. Todd didn't throw either of them under the bus (so to speak), in fact he supported 'Nuge,' but I think the writing is on the wall and the players are seeing it as well. Or, I am reading too much into their comments...

Everyone would love a more experienced guy. But that either becomes a UFA like Buff or an end of the line guy like Staal or Girardi.

We have tried bringing in vet guys and they have disappointed.

Unless we are greatly paying the world like Hall, Eberle, 1st for a Doughty we might have to go with youth. Or stop crying when people offer trades for guys with a year left on their deal. Good establisbed d don't move unless you hugely overpay or they are at the end of their contract.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Sure, but then you're sticking a young stud D on the bottom pairing. Who draws the short straw there?

My preference is to go all in on Buff. Failing that, if you can get a serviceable vet to fill in on the right side (say, Christian Ehrhoff or Travis Hamonic ) you do that, but trading Nuge for Jones is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Jones is going to be a heckuva player, but I don't see the fit.

How do you not see a fit? Everyone wants to move Schultz and Fayne. You can't function with endless amounts of left shot d. Jones would be the only one we have. We are moving a top 6 center for a player in a position that we have 0 depth in. Zero.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Isle were smart. They managed to sell a Musil for a RNH and Eberle

.26 GPG over his junior career and injury issues? A lot would have to go right for Barzal to sniff an NHL top 6. Grabovski type, maybe.

 

[McOilers97]

As has been said by some here, if we're trading RNH during the season, we need a C coming back. RNH + a pick for a #2D and a good 3C that can move up and down the lineup.

If we trade him in the summer, then it could just be RNH for a d-man straight up, as a replacement C could be signed.

If they elect not to trade him, so be it. But it means that someone else will have been moved.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

What are the odds Demers leaves dallas?

Would his contract be worth it?
Buff?
Stammer?

What's our price range?

 

[Senor Catface]

.26 GPG over his junior career and injury issues? A lot would have to go right for Barzal to sniff an NHL top 6. Grabovski type, maybe.

Yeah, RNH and a Eberle...what a laugh.