Speculation: Trade Rumors & Roster Building Thread: Part XXVII: Jeff Gorton: A Troubaliever?

[offdacrossbar]

at this point, with the depth at forward we have and the chemistry theyve shown so far, a hockey trade may well not be the best move for this team.

the forwards have great speed and seem to have made a legit effort to support the puck and get back and play defense- something last years team did not do at all.

to move 2 keys guys now to add 1 dman may be counter productive- especially if those 2 guys are ket contributors. not sure thats something we need to do right now.

i feel this team needs to stay the course, keep playing this committed team defense thing and keep pushing the play with speed and deft passing. keep it going and keep winning games. build up points early and secure that playoff spot before jan 1st.

come spring there will be 1 player available for just money and perhaps a salary dump (rick nash and dylan mcilrath would be my offer) and that player is kevin shattenkirk. the blues need to move him or lose him. they cant resign him. its keith yandle all over again but this time, were fla waiting.

hes an fa to be, a local kid, and a player that would help this defense immensely heading into the playoffs.

the price will be worlds lower than trouba and imo, right now, shatty is the better player anyway. adding him to this roster would be a shot in the arm to this team come march.

mid term, with a favorable contract, he would slot in nicely next to mcdonough.

having said that, i still prefer trouba long term but we may not have the pieces to make that deal.

we shall see

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The chemistry isn't so great when the puck isn't getting to the back of the net and the D can't hold the fort like in St. Louis and vs Detroit, which is more of what we should be expecting come playoff time



He's not the next coming of anything, he's just the best available out there right now and the Rangers have a chance to get him, that's all. Can't overpay and Gorton won't

The D held the fort fine against Detroit. One PP goal and one **** up by Lundqvist and we lost. We scored 1 goal, can't beat too many teams like that. But we also hit at least two posts and had at least one blatant empty net miss. The Hayes from now playing then buries that empty netter and we're up 2-0 while dominating play.

 

[jay from jersey]

honestly

at this point, with the depth at forward we have and the chemistry theyve shown so far, a hockey trade may well not be the best move for this team.

the forwards have great speed and seem to have made a legit effort to support the puck and get back and play defense- something last years team did not do at all.

to move 2 keys guys now to add 1 dman may be counter productive- especially if those 2 guys are ket contributors. not sure thats something we need to do right now.

i feel this team needs to stay the course, keep playing this committed team defense thing and keep pushing the play with speed and deft passing. keep it going and keep winning games. build up points early and secure that playoff spot before jan 1st.

come spring there will be 1 player available for just money and perhaps a salary dump (rick nash and dylan mcilrath would be my offer) and that player is kevin shattenkirk. the blues need to move him or lose him. they cant resign him. its keith yandle all over again but this time, were fla waiting.

hes an fa to be, a local kid, and a player that would help this defense immensely heading into the playoffs.

the price will be worlds lower than trouba and imo, right now, shatty is the better player anyway. adding him to this roster would be a shot in the arm to this team come march.

mid term, with a favorable contract, he would slot in nicely next to mcdonough.

having said that, i still prefer trouba long term but we may not have the pieces to make that deal.

we shall see

I'M with you 100%.. i would even go as far as to offer a 1st. Might not need to but, with this years draft as reportedly weak, and if gorts feels he wants to keep all forwards, I WOULD DO A 1st for shatty. the team is young enough. I'm confident shatty would resign after expansion. then the following year we have a first and 2 2nds in a better draft class. maybe more if we deal klein and nash at the draft. THE KEY is does the FO think this team is capable of winning the cup by adding shatty? IF they do, i wouldn't hesitate to deal a first for him and keep the roster as is. if not, you don't and wait. look how long it has been since we have won a cup. over 20 years people. if dealing a first can bring us the cup, sign me up

 

[kovazub94]

1. Trading now will allow for the biggest return as whatever the Rangers will give up is at its highest value.
2. Klein and Zuke are the best options given combination of their hockey value, salary against cap and remaining years under contract. Nash is more difficult to trade (for a fair value) unless salary is retained. All three are prime candidates from the Rangers perspective given that the organization should be very wary to hamstring itself again with a big salary for many years on players who could be on a decline.
3. Do not trade Miller (or Hayes). What would be the point? We were talking about Brassard-like deal for Zuke. Don't we want the return to be someone like Miller? I'd do Zuke for Miller in a second.

Point is the Rangers will benefit this season and long term by acquiring a true young 1RD (and also a project who has a potential to develop into one in a near future) but they need to use someone from the pool of Klein, Zuke, Nash, minor pieces like Lindberg or Fast and lesser prospects. I think these are good options to accommodate any reasonable trade demands.

 

[Mikos87]

Trouba shouldn't be overrated either. He has like not even put it completely together at the NHL level yet.

For me it basically comes down to this. The game has changed -- a lot -- the last years. We saw a big change after the lockout, and this is v. 2.0 of it. Like this NYR team must be the one with the least amount of fighting majors on it by far (Nash has a few, all roster combined do we get to 10?). We have a all midget skill 4th line. Just look how much speed and especially mobility we see on the ice. Players are all over the place. Chicago lead the development with their man-man D, and now many others have found their own ways to accomplish the same things. Everyone, me included, was blown away by someone like Shayne Gostisbere last season, it's not because he is a God given talent, it's because there today is room to play that style and he is one of the first to do it.

Hence, I just would love to get someone fresh who isn't indoctrined in being as stationary as Ds has been more or less since the trapping era started. In comparision, many of us saw Leetch rushing the puck. He was great, but not unique. Many Ds rushed the puck back then. Then like nobody did it between say 98 and more or less the last years. Now it's maybe not so much about rushing they k as it is to get up ice and be creative in how you get involved in the play. Think Trouba could become great at that.

Great post. To add to your points.

- Gostisbere had a figure skating trainer that taught him how to skate. There are a number of NHLers that have that "paralyzer" move.... Shayne is the only one that plays defense. Others are Skinner, Spooner, and Shinkaruk.

- Game is very different. 2013 drafted forwards and on can all skate. These are the kids that were trained up in their lives after the 2006 rule changes. McDavid is the first star that's trained under those rules. Remember Crosby's comparison was to Forsberg as a teen.

- The speed has changed the game.... Detroit has two kids that compare to Hagelin or dare I say better in Larkin & Athanasiou. Willie Nylander is a RH Hagelin with mad puck skills.... Willie can skate... so can his brother.

- Teams like the Rangers are now a "Touch and Go" team.... they employ the PIT system.... which in principal is very similar to Mike Dantoni's system in the NBA that worked well for a while with Steve Nash. There are rules to this system... the Rangers use it... it masks some flaws... and adds to strengths.

- This is why Dylan didn't get a look... he wasn't adjusting to the system.... the pace was noticeably off with him out there. Matt Bodie was better in pre-season. Rangers had plenty of practice time to see. He's a good character guy, he'll land someplace else.

 

[Riche16]

I'll be disgusted if we trade for Trouba.

Got a bunch of guys right now playing their absolute best and some people still can't wait to ship em off for a guy who is killing the team who drafted and developed him by refusing to sign a contract and trying to force his way out when hes 4 years from having the right to be a free agent.

Stay the course and appreciate the guys we have who are killing it right now.

I'm not saying the need isn't there, its just the thought of getting him. I hope Chevy holds firm and doesn't trade him. Enjoy sitting out the year. Same thing I say everytime our RFA's hold out. Sit out the year if you want, or come back to us when you want to be realistic and play hockey. (I realize its not about money for Trouba, he's just trying to force his way off the team when hes in no position to do so.

So I assume u feel the same about Vesey?

 

[Hire Sather]

So I assume u feel the same about Vesey?

Figured someone would bring that up eventually.

He waited his 3 years and became a UFA. Finished school instead of signing. That's his choice and he waited to get his NHL contract. He didn't demand a trade from the start.

If Trouba wants to wait 4 years and become a UFA then he can do that. Just like Vesey played the system and waited his 3 years.

 

[wafflepadsave]

the team is clicking now. were in the cat bird seat.

if henrik gets his mojo back and we can somehow add some more talent to the blue line, i think were in pretty good shape.

7-3 out of the gate works for me. the league has taken note.

patience and keep winning. thats the narrative for now.

theres absolutely zero pressure on us to do anything right now and thats why its the best time to make a deal.

the value of every player on this team is at its peak as we speak.

You're a poet and didn't know it!

 

[pld459666]

I would hate to be so enamored with how the team is playing today that we pass on an opportunity to improve the teams defence.

The best thing about what we are doing right now is also the worst as it is masking what we all know is an Achilles heel which is the RD position outside of Klein.

What I have seen thus far is that there is no ONE player driving the offense. The team doesn't go if one player is going and the team doesn't stop if one player stops.

But to think that we are going to score over 300 goals this year would be as silly as it would be to think that with the make up of our defence that we will only give up 2.2 per game.

I agree with the consensus that we can't move to much, but if you can get a young top 4 RD (with top pairing potential) and it costs a top 9 player, you have to make that move.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I would hate to be so enamored with how the team is playing today that we pass on an opportunity to improve the teams defence.

The best thing about what we are doing right now is also the worst as it is masking what we all know is an Achilles heel which is the RD position outside of Klein.

What I have seen thus far is that there is no ONE player driving the offense. The team doesn't go if one player is going and the team doesn't stop if one player stops.

But to think that we are going to score over 300 goals this year would be as silly as it would be to think that with the make up of our defence that we will only give up 2.2 per game.

I agree with the consensus that we can't move to much, but if you can get a young top 4 RD (with top pairing potential) and it costs a top 9 player, you have to make that move.

I agree with all of this. We've had a good start. Perhaps some players have become unavailable and others have become available from our roster. We're in a good position. That does not mean the team doesn't need more - for now and for later.

 

[Riche16]

Figured someone would bring that up eventually.

He waited his 3 years and became a UFA. Finished school instead of signing. That's his choice and he waited to get his NHL contract. He didn't demand a trade from the start.

If Trouba wants to wait 4 years and become a UFA then he can do that. Just like Vesey played the system and waited his 3 years.

In case u hadn't read my past posts I actually mentioned that it was a concern for me as well... but hey there are these loopholes in the CBA... they'll close them and then new ones will pop up.

Sadly that's the way the world is... ask Hillary... ask Trump. I'd love to be a complete high horse person but that isn't the world.

It's his life and he's leading it the way he wants.

 

[Hire Sather]

I'm not a high horse person, far from it. I'm just in no rush to trade for a guy who is refusing to play. We got a bunch of guys who want to be here and are playing well together, I'm not going out of my way to get a guy who is literally refusing to play hockey.

 

[Riche16]

Didn't mean to insinuate u are a complete high horse person... just stating that Vesey used a loophole. So is a Trouba. Kids living their lives

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I'm not a high horse person, far from it. I'm just in no rush to trade for a guy who is refusing to play. We got a bunch of guys who want to be here and are playing well together, I'm not going out of my way to get a guy who is literally refusing to play hockey.

He's holding out so he can play elsewhere not because he doesn't want to play hockey. That's meaningless. This is a business first and foremost.

 

[Hire Sather]

He's holding out so he can play elsewhere not because he doesn't want to play hockey. That's meaningless. This is a business first and foremost.

He is choosing to holdout and refuse to play instead of signing a contract and quietly telling management he wants out. (Or even making it public, either way he is easier to trade when he is under contract)

Instead he's totally killed his trade value and is now in a standoff with a stubborn GM. Who knows who will blink first.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

He is choosing to holdout and refuse to play instead of signing a contract and quietly telling management he wants out. (Or even making it public, either way he is easier to trade when he is under contract)

Instead he's totally killed his trade value and is now in a standoff with a stubborn GM. Who knows who will blink first.

Why would he sign and put all of the power in Winnipegs hands? He's not easier to trade because Winnipeg just wouldnt trade him. That would be asinine. He's requested a trade since last season.

 

[Hire Sather]

Why would he sign and put all of the power in Winnipegs hands? He's not easier to trade because Winnipeg just wouldnt trade him. That would be asinine. He's requested a trade since last season.

When it comes to RFA versus team, the power is always in the hands of the team.

If he doesn't sign by Dec 1 he can't play his season. He doesn't have much power.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

When it comes to RFA versus team, the power is always in the hands of the team.

If he doesn't sign by Dec 1 he can't play his season. He doesn't have much power.

Except Winnipeg is down a player right now. Winnipeg needs Trouba right now way more than Trouba needs them. If he doesn't sign by Dec. 1 he can go play in Europe.

 

[Hire Sather]

Except Winnipeg is down a player right now. Winnipeg needs Trouba right now way more than Trouba needs them. If he doesn't sign by Dec. 1 he can go play in Europe.

Might be the case. We don't know how stubborn Chevy is though, Winnipeg fans seem to believe he will let it go past Dec 1 and not trade him.

He can go play in Europe all he wants, he's losing money if he does that. Also for a guy who refuses to play anywhere in Canada I'm not sure hes in a hurry to go across the World.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Might be the case. We don't know how stubborn Chevy is though, Winnipeg fans seem to believe he will let it go past Dec 1 and not trade him.

He can go play in Europe all he wants, he's losing money if he does that. Also for a guy who refuses to play anywhere in Canada I'm not sure hes in a hurry to go across the World.

Might be the case? Is the case. Team not looking so hot right now.

Losing money? if this was about money he would have been signed.

 

[New York RKY]

Honeslty at this point I'd be fine not trading for Trouba. It's not that I don't want him but it has more to do with trying to screw over WPG. They have a valuable asset that they are just letting sit there when they could turn him into a couple of nice pieces. If he is too stubborn to move him then I hope it just continues to hurt their team. Meanwhile I'll keep watching this exciting team.

 

[Hire Sather]

Might be the case? Is the case. Team not looking so hot right now.

Losing money? if this was about money he would have been signed.

That's fine, its just with his refusal to play in Canada and the whole thing about his girlfriend with med school in the US stuff I really don't think he'd go to Europe.

I'm just not sure this is his best option if he wants to be traded. Its obviously hurt his trade value and Chevy doesn't want to trade him for a crappy package. His value just plummets even more if he ends up sitting out the year. Maybe at that point Chevy is stubborn enough to say screw it and just let him sit unsigned.

Sign the contract, keep developing into the top pairing defenseman that everyone says he is, up your trade value so your team can ship you off for a great return.

 

[NYR Viper]

Trouba is similar to McDonagh. He is a 2-way horse. He's the best of any player that is rumored to be out there.

Shattenkirk is getting older. I still think he could be a 40-50 point defenseman for the next 5-6 years pretty easily. That's valuable.

I'd still be okay with a trade for Trouba. Not sure what I'd make available but the longer this hold out goes, the lower my offer would be getting. As time moves along there are fewer and fewer teams who could fit his salary as it continues to grow by the day based on that RFA rule.

If I were Gorton, I'd be really trying to sell Girardi right now at half his salary. Show the minutes he's playing. $2.75m cap hit with the retention. That's 3rd pairing UFA money. Clendening should be playing.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

1. Trading now will allow for the biggest return as whatever the Rangers will give up is at its highest value.
2. Klein and Zuke are the best options given combination of their hockey value, salary against cap and remaining years under contract. Nash is more difficult to trade (for a fair value) unless salary is retained. All three are prime candidates from the Rangers perspective given that the organization should be very wary to hamstring itself again with a big salary for many years on players who could be on a decline.
3. Do not trade Miller (or Hayes). What would be the point? We were talking about Brassard-like deal for Zuke. Don't we want the return to be someone like Miller? I'd do Zuke for Miller in a second.

Point is the Rangers will benefit this season and long term by acquiring a true young 1RD (and also a project who has a potential to develop into one in a near future) but they need to use someone from the pool of Klein, Zuke, Nash, minor pieces like Lindberg or Fast and lesser prospects. I think these are good options to accommodate any reasonable trade demands.

Spot on. Agree 100%.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

good thing Gorton isn't Sather

in Jeff we trust

Is this a sports-wide saying? I remember back when the Giants were good, Giants fans would say in Reese we trust.