Proposal: Trade Rumors/Proposals Thread 2013-2014 | Part VII

[GoSensGo6172]

Couture would take massive over-payment. He's the Sharks future captain, no way they deal him.

 

[Dionysus]

If we move Spezza we'd be the team searching for a #1 C though. Unless you want to move Karlsson for a #1 C and Spezza for Weber.

I could get behind something along those lines.

Spezza + Stone to Nashville for Weber

Karlsson to Colorado for Duchene

Conacher - Duchene - Zibanejad
MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Michalek - Pageau - Condra
Greening - Smith - Neil

Cowen - Weber (yikes)
Methot - Ceci
Phillips/Borowiecki - Wiercioch/Corvo/Gryba

Karlsson is not a normal player. We have never had someone like him before. Trading him would be ludicrous. At least trading Spezza has some semblance of merit, if you can package him for a guy like Weber or get some really strong young assets back.

Trading Spezza would be a step back for the organization. Trading Karlsson would be three steps back off a cliff onto some jagged rocks.

 

[Lehner]

If we move Spezza we'd be the team searching for a #1 C though. Unless you want to move Karlsson for a #1 C and Spezza for Weber.

I could get behind something along those lines.

Spezza + Stone to Nashville for Weber

Karlsson to Colorado for Duchene

Conacher - Duchene - Zibanejad
MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Michalek - Pageau - Condra
Greening - Smith - Neil

Cowen - Weber (yikes)
Methot - Ceci
Phillips/Borowiecki - Wiercioch/Corvo/Gryba

If thats all it took to get Weber it would be done already, Imagine a pairing of EK + Weber or, EK + Methot, Weber + Cowen..drools.

Down the middle, Zibby, Turris, Pageau

 

[YNWA14]

Karlsson is exactly the type of player that people keep saying you can't win a cup with. Can't have it both ways.

I'd like to keep them both and build around them but if one is going to go for those reasons it should be the one that spends almost 30 minutes a night on the ice and is tasked with protecting the net.

A lot easier to insulate a weak defensive forward who is dynamic offensively than a defenseman who eats huge minutes.

 

[Benjamin]

It's not a biting thing. I'm starting to think that people are right. It's hard to be a winning team when your best players are players that play like Karlsson and Spezza. They are complementary pieces IMO. They need insulation.

That will be harder to do with Karlsson than Spezza though.

Karlsson is a franchise piece. The player to build around. Right now hes having trouble defensively but hes getting better by the week. He's proven to be a lot better than this. It'll come. He needs more time. Hasn't been long enough to give up on him.

Current Spezza is a complementary piece but he wasn't before his injuries. He was a true #1 center every team wants. Now hes a misused offensive weapon thats one injury away from being an average player.

There is a huge difference. One can play 30mins and control a game. The other needs his hand held.

 

[RedWhiteBlackGold]

I understand the whole team has been playing like garbage but for as much blame Spezza and Karlsson get, there's hardly any talk about the third highest paid forward on this team which has been a bigger disappointment.

 

[GoSensGo6172]

Karlsson is exactly the type of player that people keep saying you can't win a cup with. Can't have it both ways.

I'd like to keep them both and build around them but if one is going to go for those reasons it should be the one that spends almost 30 minutes a night on the ice and is tasked with protecting the net.

A lot easier to insulate a weak defensive forward who is dynamic offensively than a defenseman who eats huge minutes.

And why exactly is Karlsson the type of player you can't win a cup with? Too risky? Too flashy?

 

[Super Cake]

If anyone is getting traded, it is Spezza.

Spezza is older and he is not going to get any better. He also has chronic back problems.

 

[Dionysus]

Karlsson is exactly the type of player that people keep saying you can't win a cup with. Can't have it both ways.

I'd like to keep them both and build around them but if one is going to go for those reasons it should be the one that spends almost 30 minutes a night on the ice and is tasked with protecting the net.

A lot easier to insulate a weak defensive forward who is dynamic offensively than a defenseman who eats huge minutes.

Who keeps saying you can't win a cup with a young dynamic offensive defenceman as a part of the team?

I like Spezza, he has been a great player in Ottawa for years.

I'm not advocating trading him. Trading Karlsson though, that just isn't going to happen unless he decides he doesn't want to play in Ottawa. The guy does things that nobody in the league can do.

 

[WhiteLight*]

lol I don't think there's been anyone ever who's said you can't win with Karlsson. Cujomi you gotta stop making things up

 

[Super Cake]

Who keeps saying you can't win a cup with a young dynamic offensive defenceman as a part of the team?

I like Spezza, he has been a great player in Ottawa for years.

I'm not advocating trading him. Trading Karlsson though, that just isn't going to happen unless he decides he doesn't want to play in Ottawa. The guy does things that nobody in the league can do.

Didn't the pens win the cup with an offensive defencemen (letang)?

 

[YNWA14]

And why exactly is Karlsson the type of player you can't win a cup with? Too risky? Too flashy?

Well as described by others when saying Spezza isn't the type you can win a cup with...he's soft, bad defensively, and lazy. All three of those also apply to Karlsson. The problem is that he plays 30 minutes a night and Spezza plays 20. It's also much easier to insulate a bad defensive forward than it is to insulate a bad defensive defenceman.

Anyway, they're both great dynamic players that are struggling on a bad team right now. People keep bringing up that this team did great last year without Spezza -- but that team didn't have Karlsson either.

 

[GoSensGo6172]

Well as described by others when saying Spezza isn't the type you can win a cup with...he's soft, bad defensively, and lazy. All three of those also apply to Karlsson. The problem is that he plays 30 minutes a night and Spezza plays 20. It's also much easier to insulate a bad defensive forward than it is to insulate a bad defensive defenceman.

Anyway, they're both great dynamic players that are struggling on a bad team right now. People keep bringing up that this team did great last year without Spezza -- but that team didn't have Karlsson either.

I've seen Karlsson actually skate his ass off to get back and prevent a scoring chance both after he messes up and to cover for someone else.

I've also seen him join battles in the corners many times this season.

Erik Karlsson is definitely not a lazy player and people who say that clearly aren't watching him very closely.

 

[ffayyca]

Well as described by others when saying Spezza isn't the type you can win a cup with...he's soft, bad defensively, and lazy. All three of those also apply to Karlsson. The problem is that he plays 30 minutes a night and Spezza plays 20. It's also much easier to insulate a bad defensive forward than it is to insulate a bad defensive defenceman.

Anyway, they're both great dynamic players that are struggling on a bad team right now. People keep bringing up that this team did great last year without Spezza -- but that team didn't have Karlsson either.

Karlsson can play defense, unlike spezza whose key attributes do not make him an effective defensive player. Nothing wrong with that, unfortunately maclean insists on putting him on the pk because he is the captain.

 

[WhiteLight*]

omg is this happening? Really, now we're comparing Karlsson to Spezza? They're not comparable at all.

Karlsson is physical, has exceptional speed and acceleration, battles for loose pucks, SKATES for loose puck, is an exceptional puck possession player. And as a defenseman is still better offensively than Spezza.

The only time you see Spezza skating hard is when the puck is actually on his stick. It's pathetic.

They are NOT comparable whatsoever. They are exact opposites. Spezza is a black hole where plays die, Karlsson is the biggest catalyst in the league.

 

[YNWA14]

I've seen Karlsson actually skate his ass off to get back and prevent a scoring chance both after he messes up and to cover for someone else.

I've also seen him join battles in the corners many times this season.

Erik Karlsson is definitely not a lazy player and people who say that clearly aren't watching him very closely.

I've watched Karlsson coast countless times in his own zone, make lazy passes, not take the body, let the other team get to the puck first and shy away from contact. Yes, every once in a while Karlsson makes a highlight reel skate back, but those times are few and far between when his general habits are in his own end.

Case in point: the game winning goal tonight. Why wasn't he on Vermette instead of coasting in front of Anderson just waiting to see if he'd cover it up? Take that decision away and tie up Vermette and maybe we win that game.

I mean, I've seen Spezza skate his ass off to backcheck, and make some very nice defensive plays too this year. But in general he has been poor in his own zone.

 

[Benjamin]

Karlsson isn't soft, bad defensively or lazy.

 

[ffayyca]

omg is this happening? Really, now we're comparing Karlsson to Spezza? They're not comparable at all.

Karlsson is physical, has exceptional speed and acceleration, battles for loose pucks, SKATES for loose puck, is an exceptional puck possession player. And as a defenseman is still better offensively than Spezza.

The only time you see Spezza skating hard is when the puck is actually on his stick. It's pathetic.

They are NOT comparable whatsoever. They are exact opposites. Spezza is a black hole where plays die, Karlsson is the biggest catalyst in the league.

To be fair, spezza has made some nice defensive plays this year. He's trying to learn the defensive game, but with his health and skating issue, he can't do it consistently. He may learn to be a decent 2 way game someday, but us fans won't have patience for that. Maclean should just use him to produce offence, and ask the wingers to backcheck more.

 

[GoSensGo6172]

I've watched Karlsson coast countless times in his own zone, make lazy passes, not take the body, let the other team get to the puck first and shy away from contact. Yes, every once in a while Karlsson makes a highlight reel skate back, but those times are few and far between when his general habits are in his own end.

Case in point: the game winning goal tonight. Why wasn't he on Vermette instead of coasting in front of Anderson just waiting to see if he'd cover it up? Take that decision away and tie up Vermette and maybe we win that game.

I mean, I've seen Spezza skate his ass off to backcheck, and make some very nice defensive plays too this year. But in general he has been poor in his own zone.

No, sorry you're putting WAY too much blame on Karlsson. We win the game if Andy doesn't make a moronic play and basically give it right to Vermette. We win the game if Smith gets that puck just a touch higher.

Being at the game and that happening right in front of me, I can tell you ALL four Sens players were expecting Andy to play the puck up ice and start a rush. Cowen was hovering at the blueline because he figured Andy would play it to him or to EK and then EK up to Cowen or a forward. Pretty basic hockey play, especially in OT when everything is at a faster pace.

Andy should jumped all over that puck, batted it away with his stick. Sure Karlsson could have done a bit more to tie him up, but is he really supposed be a few steps ahead of his goalie at all times? That's just not fair.

Everyone in the building was shocked too because the Sens looked to have quite a solid breakout developing.

 

[Benjamin]

Not that hits are everything for saying a player is physical but...

This season Karlsson has 57 hits in 38 games.

Spezza's last full season he had 28 hits in 80 games.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Don't feed the troll!!!

 

[hattrick3518]

Stastny for Wiercioch+++?????

 

[Sens Rule]

It's not a biting thing. I'm starting to think that people are right. It's hard to be a winning team when your best players are players that play like Karlsson and Spezza. They are complementary pieces IMO. They need insulation.

That will be harder to do with Karlsson than Spezza though.

Karlsson is still crazy young. Still coming off a crazy injury and the team around him is struggling all over the place. Remember the start of last season before achilles? He was great defensively. He was probably a top 3 or top 5 player.... IN THE WORLD. Everyone was saying it. Bob freaking McKenzie said it and he is not one into hyperbole, nor does he have any special affinity for or against the Senators.

Trading Karlsson would be the absolutely stupidest move possible. He shouldn't be moved for Sydney freaking Crosby or Steven Stamkos.

He totally has the talent and motivation to be an all-time great player. Joining the tier of Shore, Bourque, Harvey, Potvin, Lidstrom. He is THAT GOOD. He is not even near as good as he will become. Having what seems to be an off, ip and down season he is leading defencemen in points, and the team as well.

And for Duchesne? Really? A guy that doesn't even come close to scoring as many points as Karlsson over his career?

These trade proposals should be more realistic. Cowen is nearly completely given up on because of a poor third of a season? He is a monster physical specimen with all the tools and is ridiculously young for a top 4 defenceman. He is no where near at a point the Senators should give up on him. What was Zdeno Chara like at the same age? Know what we need? A really good partner for him to play with him for a couple of years like Phillips was to Chara. I will be surprised if Cowen does not end up as a stud physical defensive defenceman that still ends up with 5-10 goals and 35-45 points a season. Not next year though!

Now most line-ups in future years made up by members here don't even include him. Because we should "rebuild". He was a top draft pick, players don't develop overnight. Are we rebuilding for 2020?

Karlsson a "complementary piece"? Where? On the 1978 Montreal Canadians? Lol.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Stastny for Wiercioch+++?????

Three pluses really? You're barking up the wrong tree man. Try Landeskog

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Seth Jones Filip Forsberg. For Jason Spezza, Cory Conacher and Cody Ceci