News Article: Trade Rumors: Elliotte Friedman Speculates on Potential Athanasiou Trade With Hurricanes

[jkutswings]

Because points on special teams and 4v4 are only worth 3/4 of a point scored 5v5.

Agreed. Some advanced stats definitely get blown out of proportion.

I mean, once a guy has made it in the NHL, I can understand it being noteworthy that a given player scores most of his points on special teams, rather than even strength. But that's something related to how they are (or should be) best utilized, not whether they're a good player or not.

 

[Winger98]

Agreed. Some advanced stats definitely get blown out of proportion.

I mean, once a guy has made it in the NHL, I can understand it being noteworthy that a given player scores most of his points on special teams, rather than even strength. But that's something related to how they are (or should be) best utilized, not whether they're a good player or not.

Also, the Wings can't put pucks in the net at even strength or on the power play, and our blueline is especially anemic. If Faulk comes in and puts up 30-40 points and 20 of those points are on the power play...who else is going to do that? Where else are those points going to come from on our blueline? Right now, yeah, Green is still giving it the ol' college try, but that's about all he's doing. And the kids we have below the NHL are massive question marks that we've seen turn into expletives pretty darn regularly once they move up the organizational ladder.

This is the type of deal we've been begging for, someone with some surplus on the blueline wanting some of our surplus forwards. At some point when it appears someone might be giving you what you want, you're going to get burned by turning around and asking, "how about just a little bit more?"

 

[RedWingzz]

I am not writing him off.
I'm saying the stats are a red flag. Pump the brakes. Do your research and your scouting.

If you discover why his stats are down and determine that he would return to 15 goal-40 point territory in Detroit, then yeah, proceed.

Sometimes there is no particular reason though. Players go up and down during the course of 82 game seasons for no reason sometimes. Slumps/bad luck happen.

 

[Redder Winger]

Sometimes there is no particular reason though. Players go up and down during the course of 82 game seasons for no reason sometimes. Slumps/bad luck happen.

I get it.
There are slumps.

And there are slumps.

By the way, Faulk has added a second 5-on-5 assist, improving his numbers slightly.

Still sixth worst defenseman in the league in 5 on 5 point production.

Remarkably awful numbers for an offensive defenseman.

 

[Flowah]

Also, the Wings can't put pucks in the net at even strength or on the power play, and our blueline is especially anemic. If Faulk comes in and puts up 30-40 points and 20 of those points are on the power play...who else is going to do that? Where else are those points going to come from on our blueline? Right now, yeah, Green is still giving it the ol' college try, but that's about all he's doing. And the kids we have below the NHL are massive question marks that we've seen turn into expletives pretty darn regularly once they move up the organizational ladder.

All things being equal I think you should prefer a 5v5 guy given that most minutes in most games are done 5v5.

That said, I think I still take this trade.

 

[Redder Winger]

Also, the Wings can't put pucks in the net at even strength or on the power play, and our blueline is especially anemic. If Faulk comes in and puts up 30-40 points and 20 of those points are on the power play...who else is going to do that? Where else are those points going to come from on our blueline? Right now, yeah, Green is still giving it the ol' college try, but that's about all he's doing. And the kids we have below the NHL are massive question marks that we've seen turn into expletives pretty darn regularly once they move up the organizational ladder.

This is the type of deal we've been begging for, someone with some surplus on the blueline wanting some of our surplus forwards. At some point when it appears someone might be giving you what you want, you're going to get burned by turning around and asking, "how about just a little bit more?"

For one, Faulk's PP stats aren't great either.

Secondly, if there are questions about his sudden decline, why not just trade Green, keep Athanasiou, and then try to resign Green or Carlson or JMFJ in the offseason?

Why give up the asset?

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

Love me some AA, but the Wings take this and run if true.

Doubt there's anything to this though.

 

[Frk It]

For one, Faulk's PP stats aren't great either.

Secondly, if there are questions about his sudden decline, why not just trade Green, keep Athanasiou, and then try to resign Green or Carlson or JMFJ in the offseason?

Why give up the asset?

Why would a UFA want to come here? How much do you want to overpay those guys? Probably a 0% chance Carlson hits UFA, and the other guys are both 30+.

Also, his PP stats prior to this year were good. We don't need to qualify any further that he has been bad this year. I think we all get that at this point.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Why would a UFA want to come here? How much do you want to overpay those guys? Probably a 0% chance Carlson hits UFA, and the other guys are both 30+.

Also, his PP stats prior to this year were good. We don't need to qualify any further that he has been bad this year. I think we all get that at this point.

The only reason he would even be available is how difficult a year he is having. Otherwise the return wouldn't be AA as the center piece of the deal.

We risk AA becoming a 1st line winger. Okay I get that and Redder Winger is his most ardent supporter so I don't expect a move dealing AA or walking away from him in a future contract negotiation to be something he/she ever is going to be on board with.

But honestly the bigger risk in this deal is for Carolina. I know they have young D-man but if Faulk goes back to being a top pairing guy they are going to look silly if AA keeps just being an exciting tweener winger. That is actually more likely. We have seen Faulk play at higher levels than AA has ever gotten to.

If he wasn't having a rough campaign and Carolina didn't have depth at the position we wouldn't even have this opportunity. This is a player they protected for Duchene not but a few months ago. Count our blessings that he is available at such a lower cost. If it crashes and burns that would be too bad, but we have been inactive during this backslide too long. Faulk has been an all-star and an Olympian he is the kind of risk we haven't been taking enough of on lately. I would do this without hesitation, my guess is Carolina wants something added to AA if this was to become a real talk, just not sure what that would be and if it would hurt my interest. But straight across? Yeah Kenny get on the phone with the league in Toronto and hammer this through with Francis immediately.

Also it would be hilarious if Carolina's first big trade post-Karmanos is with us.

 

[Redder Winger]

Why would a UFA want to come here? How much do you want to overpay those guys? Probably a 0% chance Carlson hits UFA, and the other guys are both 30+.

1) Money.
2) No more than we already overpay Green.

Also, his PP stats prior to this year were good. We don't need to qualify any further that he has been bad this year. I think we all get that at this point.

 

[pylon17]

I've always liked Faulk. He kind of reminds me of a poor man's Doughty, similar build, two way ability, big RH blast from the point. That'd be a very good trade for you, I hope his talents wouldn't be wasted there... DET's situation isn't ideal but minutes-wise it's certainly better for Faulk than Carolina, he's capable of more.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Well Detroit will need a replacement for Mike Green, And Justin Faulk would be the perfect candidate.

 

[Winger98]

All things being equal I think you should prefer a 5v5 guy given that most minutes in most games are done 5v5.

That said, I think I still take this trade.

The thing is the Wings are equally miserable at so much that I don't see a need to be picky about it. They don't score a lot at even strength. They aren't good on the power play. And tonight the penalty kill just rolled into a fetal position while NYI kicked it to death. If the wings can deal one of their many middle tier forwards and bring in a guy who could notably improve any of that, they've probably done pretty darn well.

And all of has ignored the fact that if a guy like Faulk didn't have some sort of baggage or question mark, he wouldn't be available. If we're going to talk ourselves out of every move because the guy we're getting back isn't perfectly ideal or because there is any element of risk involved then a move is never going to be made. And that gets us what Ken Holland has actually done over the past ten years, which is avoiding nearly any trade of significance involving roster players.

And there is always going to be something to find, some inane thing to pick apart, to drive that fear.

 

[Redder Winger]

The thing is the Wings are equally miserable at so much that I don't see a need to be picky about it. They don't score a lot at even strength. They aren't good on the power play. And tonight the penalty kill just rolled into a fetal position while NYI kicked it to death. If the wings can deal one of their many middle tier forwards and bring in a guy who could notably improve any of that, they've probably done pretty darn well.

And all of has ignored the fact that if a guy like Faulk didn't have some sort of baggage or question mark, he wouldn't be available. If we're going to talk ourselves out of every move because the guy we're getting back isn't perfectly ideal or because there is any element of risk involved then a move is never going to be made. And that gets us what Ken Holland has actually done over the past ten years, which is avoiding nearly any trade of significance involving roster players.

And there is always going to be something to find, some inane thing to pick apart, to drive that fear.

It isn't an inane thing to be worried about when an offensive defenseman who sucks at defense stops scoring.

 

[Winger98]

It isn't an inane thing to be worried about when an offensive defenseman who sucks at defense stops scoring.

For two seasons? Or even a whole season? Maybe. But over half a season?

Faulk had a god awful 30-odd games to start the season, at least part of which fueled by awful puck luck evidenced by his 1-2% shooting percentage. And the team he's on isn't good enough to do a lot to mitigate that. If he was a guy who could pick that sort of club up and carry them closer to respectability, he wouldn't be available to anyone for a trade.

Even with that start he's on pace for ~29 points this year. He's put up 37 each of the two seasons prior to this. I don't really see a reason to think that he wouldn't rebound next year and put up 35-40 points again.

 

[jkutswings]

It isn't an inane thing to be worried about when an offensive defenseman who sucks at defense stops scoring.

Worrying is for parents waiting for their teenager to get home when it's after curfew. Make a list of what to investigate, scout the situation, and make the call. But acting like any trade with notable risk is a plague to be avoided is the perfect game plan for managerial paralysis.

 

[Redder Winger]

Worrying is for parents waiting for their teenager to get home when it's after curfew. Make a list of what to investigate, scout the situation, and make the call. But acting like any trade with notable risk is a plague to be avoided is the perfect game plan for managerial paralysis.

Saying yes to a trade on name value is stupid.
We've been through this before.

Find out why Faulk sucks.

Don't make the trade until you know why and are confident he won't continue sucking in Detroit.

If you can't make that conclusion based on reasonable evidence, then it's a foolish trade.

 

[jkutswings]

Saying yes to a trade on name value is stupid.
We've been through this before.

Find out why Faulk sucks.

Don't make the trade until you know why and are confident he won't continue sucking in Detroit.

If you can't make that conclusion based on reasonable evidence, then it's a foolish trade.

Which is exactly what the post you quoted suggested to do. So why the fuss?

 

[Redder Winger]

Which is exactly what the post you quoted suggested to do. So why the fuss?

No, that's not what Winger suggested.

Winger said we should stop talking ourselves out of deals - using some generic reasoning.

At a generic level, I agree with that.

But on a specific level, there are good reasons to talk yourself out of this deal.

An offensive defenseman who has NO DEFENSIVE VALUE who suddenly can't score (I mean, bottom six out of 167 NHL defense) - that's a good thing to look into.

Winger doesn't say we should look into his struggles.
Winger says "Oh, but that's why he's cheap. If he wasn't struggling, he wouldn't be available."
And we shouldn't pick deals apart over inane things like an offensive defenseman who can't produce points.

 

[jkutswings]

No, that's not what Winger suggested.

Winger said we should stop talking ourselves out of deals - using some generic reasoning.

At a generic level, I agree with that.

But on a specific level, there are good reasons to talk yourself out of this deal.

An offensive defenseman who has NO DEFENSIVE VALUE who suddenly can't score (I mean, bottom six out of 167 NHL defense) - that's a good thing to look into.

Winger doesn't say we should look into his struggles.
Winger says "Oh, but that's why he's cheap. If he wasn't struggling, he wouldn't be available."
And we shouldn't pick deals apart over inane things like an offensive defenseman who can't produce points.

No. MY post, not Winger's.

I suggested to do exactly what you claim to want: thoroughly investigating the situation, and making the call accordingly. But you're acting as if there's no scenario where this could possibly end up as a good trade, just because there's notable risk.

 

[Redder Winger]

No. MY post, not Winger's.

I suggested to do exactly what you claim to want: thoroughly investigating the situation, and making the call accordingly. But you're acting as if there's no scenario where this could possibly end up as a good trade, just because there's notable risk.

I've said a dozen times that if your scouts OK look into it, and if your minions call their contacts in Carolina, and they agree that Faulk is a prime candidate to turn it around, then you make this trade.

 

[jkutswings]

New TSN speculation on Faulk:

Countdown to TradeCentre: Trade possibilities for Bruins - Article - TSN

Trade currency in Carolina

"The Carolina Hurricanes are currently one point out of the playoffs in the Eastern Conference and could use another forward for their stretch drive. The team could look to their glut of defencemen to make it happen.

The Athletic's Eric Duhatschek suggests captain Justin Faulk as a possible trade piece. Faulk has two years left on his contract at $4.8 million per season after this year, which Duhatschek notes is good value if he can return to his 17-goal 2016-17 form, but the Hurricanes will owe Jaccob Slavin and Brett Pesce more money next season, and Noah Hanifan is coming off his rookie deal as well.

One name floated out there by Duhatschek is Edmonton Oilers winger Jesse Puljujarvi. In 36 games for the Oilers this season, Puljujarvi has nine goals and six assists."


If they're only pegging Faulk to return Puljujarvi, maybe a swap for AA is feasible after all.

 

[Shaman464]

No. MY post, not Winger's.

I suggested to do exactly what you claim to want: thoroughly investigating the situation, and making the call accordingly. But you're acting as if there's no scenario where this could possibly end up as a good trade, just because there's notable risk.

Its because the trade is for AA. And to him AA is Gretzky, but better.

My opinion is while Faulk isn't a world burner right now, but Detroit is in the exact place where taking a chance on a young d-man is a great idea. They also have a ton of wingers, so why not trade one? Especially one that has a ton of issues.

 

[Claypool]

Its because the trade is for AA. And to him AA is Gretzky, but better.

My opinion is while Faulk isn't a world burner right now, but Detroit is in the exact place where taking a chance on a young d-man is a great idea. They also have a ton of wingers, so why not trade one? Especially one that has a ton of issues.

It makes sense to trade players like Tatar or Nyqust for Faulk. Not young, cheap players with upside.

 

[Shaman464]

It makes sense to trade players like Tatar or Nyqust for Faulk. Not young, cheap players with upside.

In NHL 2018 it does.

In the real world, you don't get to unload older, more expensive players, especially ones with NTCs/NMCs. Also, this attitude is exactly how Detroit got here in the first place, Holland is unwilling to trade because he may lose out, and has missed out on more than he could ever lose. AA could be really good, but its much more likely that Faulk rebounds.

Basically if you're going to play the game of what-ifs you might as well never leave your house.