Rumor: Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread: Slow Days of Summer

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

It's actually crazy how this player, who was one of the biggest draft reaches in recent memory, actually turned out to be worthy of the selection.

At #5 behind Ovy, Malkin, Barker and Ladd, there's no one else except maaaybe Schneider (but goalies in the 1st?? egh) that I would have selected. I think Blake was projected around #30?

Awesome pick by Phoenix!

Mike Green, but yeah, very rarely do reaches turn out this good.

 

[oilersrule14]

Really the only difference between him and Gagner is size their production almost Identical heart and soul equal Wheeler has not been on a playoff team in 5 years either.I find it funny how a lot of posters are saying Gagner
was to high and wheeler a deal. The hf double standard I guess Gagner also 3 years younger.

Size is a big deal, and offensive production this year was close but this was a shortened season. Gagner's previous high was 47 pts, wheeler's high is 64, that is not similar production. Sure, their ppg rates were similar this year, but Gagner slowed down heavily towards the end of the year, if he had played a full 82, I suspect his ppg would have dropped further. You also didn't mention two way game which wheeler is better at. Quite a bit of difference between the two players, I'd say fair deal for both.

 

[Oiltankjob Fail]

Size is a big deal, and offensive production this year was close but this was a shortened season. Gagner's previous high was 47 pts, wheeler's high is 64, that is not similar production. Sure, their ppg rates were similar this year, but Gagner slowed down heavily towards the end of the year, if he had played a full 82, I suspect his ppg would have dropped further. You also didn't mention two way game which wheeler is better at. Quite a bit of difference between the two players, I'd say fair deal for both.

Their career ppg is almost exact with Gagner being 3 years younger you also did not mention Gagner career low is 38 pts in a 48 game season while wheeler at Gagner's age was putting up 38 points in a 82game season And Gagner was on pace for 65 pts 2 years youinger when Wheeler put up 64 And Gagner's previous high is 49 fyi. Also Wheeler extra size never pushed his teams in Playoffs either.

 

[The Nuge]

Yea they have no issues with funding. They could build 4 arenas and its wouldnt even make a dent in the Thompson Group net worth.

Exactly. He could have 0 revenue coming in from the team and it wouldn't matter

 

[Fourier]

Is there anything is then post that has any truth to it, because if there is I cant see it. Petry hasnt played against the top competition his whole career and done well at it. If he had we wouldnt have 3 1st overall picks on our team. And Franson and Gardiner were Torontos top pair during the playoffs this year. So he went head to head against the best in Boston.

You are correct about Franson playing against some of Boston's best later in the round, but it was Gardiner who was playing great not Franson.

In game 1 Franson was on the bottom pairing with Mark Fraser. He was still on the bottom pair with Fraser in game 2 . Game three he played again with Fraser. Game 4 he played again mostly with Fraser, but a little with Gardiner as well. The reason for the switch was that Fraser got hurt, not because Franson upped his game. He was then paired up with Gardiner for the rest of the playoffs.


In order here are the top 20 players Franson faced last year in terms of TOI at ES:

Chris Neal, Zach Smith, Frans Nielsen, Lars Eller, Mika Zibanejad, Colin Greening Travis Moen, Nathan Horton, David Krejci, Erik Condra, Rich Peverly, Bowman Drayson, Kyle Wellwood, Nik Antropov, Josh Bailey, Ryane Clowe, Peter Mueller, James Wright, Kyle Okposo

Here is the same top 20 for Jeff Petry:

Mkiko Koivu(*), Zach Parise(*), P.J. Parrenteau, Jamie McGinn, Corey Perry, Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Matt Duschene, Paul Stastny(*), Marian Hossa, Jonathan Toews, Johan Franzen(*), John Mitchell, P.M. Bouchard(*), Anze Kopitar(*), Patrick Marleau, Shane Doan(*), Chris Stewart, Joe Thorton(*), Justin Williams(*)

(*) means that the player was not on the ice for an ES goal against Petry. The only players in this group who registered more than 1GF/20 playing against Petry were McGinn, Hossa, Toews, Mitchell and Stewart.

We can leave it up to others to decide who faced the tougher competition. But I will say this. There is a reason why the Leafs signed Gunnarsson before Franson.

Except Franson at minimum is on our second pairing and Id be moving Petry whos most likely going to be looking for close to the same next year. Schultz will get a minor raise if any, RNH will probably get bumped up to 5M for a few years unless he puts up over a PPG this year, Yak isnt up for 2 years so who knows how much more we'll need for him, and by then the cap will most likely have gone up. With all 3 of Yak, Schultz, and RNH making 3.775M right now I dont see resigning all 3 adding more then 6M to our total cap which we could trim from other places via trade if the cap doesn't go up. On top of that we have dead space like NSchultz, Hemsky, and Smyth all coming off the cap this year. Were fine going forward even with signing Franson, the time that'll be hard to keep him will be when this contract would be up as he'd be a UFA(Contract Id offer 4M over 5 years). If he becomes the d man I see him becoming with the Oil he'd be wanting north of 6M, but by that point hopefully we have someone else ready to step into that spot.

Bottom line for me is that Petry is a better defenseman than Franson. Personally I do not even think it is close.

 

[joestevens29]

Quite a lot of money for Wheeler. He's a good player no doubt, but 5.6... makes me feel better about Gagner's 4.8. I donno if Wheeler is .8 million better.

He's their #1 RW. He's also been pretty damn healthy over his career so I don't know that their is the injury risk, but 6 years seems a bit much for a 27 year old. Then again the guy did keep that 60+ point pace up again this year.

I also wonder how much Little's 4.8mil comes into account here.

 

[joestevens29]

Their career ppg is almost exact with Gagner being 3 years younger you also did not mention Gagner career low is 38 pts in a 48 game season while wheeler at Gagner's age was putting up 38 points in a 82game season And Gagner was on pace for 65 pts 2 years youinger when Wheeler put up 64 And Gagner's previous high is 49 fyi. Also Wheeler extra size never pushed his teams in Playoffs either.

Wheeler did play in the playoffs for the Bruins his first 2 seasons, not sure how you can blame the guy after getting dealt to Atlanta.

 

[Conkanen*]

By having an owner that makes Daryl Katz look broke

Doesn't matter how much $$ Thompson has they have come out and said they wanna model their organization after the Nashville Predators. That said, I do like what they are doing/not doing.

 

[Fourier]

Doesn't matter how much $$ Thompson has they have come out and said they wanna model their organization after the Nashville Predators. That said, I do like what they are doing/not doing.

They have a fair bit more revenue than Nashville so the "fiscal responsibility" model gives them enough room to pay the core. And Nashville has spent when the need was there.

 

[oilersrule14]

Their career ppg is almost exact with Gagner being 3 years younger you also did not mention Gagner career low is 38 pts in a 48 game season while wheeler at Gagner's age was putting up 38 points in a 82game season And Gagner was on pace for 65 pts 2 years youinger when Wheeler put up 64 And Gagner's previous high is 49 fyi. Also Wheeler extra size never pushed his teams in Playoffs either.

Hey, Gagner may end up being a better player, definitely possible, but that really wasn't what I was arguing. Player A has 49 pts for a high (thanks for the correction), and Player B has 64 pts for a high. Add to that, player B has a stronger two way game and brings size. So right now, Player B is going to get paid more, it only makes sense.

If Gags had signed a 6 yr deal he may have gotten more because of his potential, but on a 3 year deal most of the negotiations will revolve around what he has done already...and what he has done already isn't worth as much as what Wheeler has done already, thus the difference in the pay days. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Soli]

Mkiko Koivu(*), Zach Parise(*), P.J. Parrenteau, Jamie McGinn, Corey Perry, Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Matt Duschene, Paul Stastny(*), Marian Hossa, Jonathan Toews, Johan Franzen(*), John Mitchell, P.M. Bouchard(*), Anze Kopitar(*), Patrick Marleau, Shane Doan(*), Chris Stewart, Joe Thorton(*), Justin Williams(*)

(*) means that the player was not on the ice for an ES goal against Petry. The only players in this group who registered more than 1GF/20 playing against Petry were McGinn, Hossa, Toews, Mitchell and Stewart.

Was there a straight forward way to see who scored an ES goal against, or was this plenty of elbow grease on your part?

Solid post.

 

[doubledown99]

Great post Fourier re: Franson vs Petry

I can't believe somebody was arguing against Petry.

Stauffer talked about Franson....said doubts Oilers try to get him. Said would be behind JS and Petry and thus wouldn't be worth trading for and being on bottom pairing (not good use of assets or cap).

 

[joestevens29]

Great post Fourier re: Franson vs Petry

I can't believe somebody was arguing against Petry.

Stauffer talked about Franson....said doubts Oilers try to get him. Said would be behind JS and Petry and thus wouldn't be worth trading for and being on bottom pairing (not good use of assets or cap).

With no real true top pairing d-men I can't figure out why putting a top 4 on the bottom pairing would be such a bad plan.

Maybe Franson isn't the man, but this mentality that we can't put a top 4 on the bottom pairing isn't right to me.

 

[KMart27]

With no real true top pairing d-men I can't figure out why putting a top 4 on the bottom pairing would be such a bad plan.

Maybe Franson isn't the man, but this mentality that we can't put a top 4 on the bottom pairing isn't right to me.

A top 4 defenseman on the bottom pairing would be good. It all depends on how that player is acquired and his contract.

A guy like Franson will require at least one quality asset to be moved and then he would have to be signed to maybe 4+ million a year long term.

 

[joestevens29]

A top 4 defenseman on the bottom pairing would be good. It all depends on how that player is acquired and his contract.

A guy like Franson will require at least one quality asset to be moved and then he would have to be signed to maybe 4+ million a year long term.

The talk is pick and prospect. At that price you have to make the call and find out what kind of pick and prospect.

26 year old top 4 d-men don't exactly come around to often, if the cost is assets that we have a lot of then a call has to be made. When the hell has it ever been a bad thing to have too many top 4 d-men?

 

[AK Dandyman]

You are correct about Franson playing against some of Boston's best later in the round, but it was Gardiner who was playing great not Franson.

In game 1 Franson was on the bottom pairing with Mark Fraser. He was still on the bottom pair with Fraser in game 2 . Game three he played again with Fraser. Game 4 he played again mostly with Fraser, but a little with Gardiner as well. The reason for the switch was that Fraser got hurt, not because Franson upped his game. He was then paired up with Gardiner for the rest of the playoffs.

In order here are the top 20 players Franson faced last year in terms of TOI at ES:

Chris Neal, Zach Smith, Frans Nielsen, Lars Eller, Mika Zibanejad, Colin Greening Travis Moen, Nathan Horton, David Krejci, Erik Condra, Rich Peverly, Bowman Drayson, Kyle Wellwood, Nik Antropov, Josh Bailey, Ryane Clowe, Peter Mueller, James Wright, Kyle Okposo

Here is the same top 20 for Jeff Petry:

Mkiko Koivu(*), Zach Parise(*), P.J. Parrenteau, Jamie McGinn, Corey Perry, Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Matt Duschene, Paul Stastny(*), Marian Hossa, Jonathan Toews, Johan Franzen(*), John Mitchell, P.M. Bouchard(*), Anze Kopitar(*), Patrick Marleau, Shane Doan(*), Chris Stewart, Joe Thorton(*), Justin Williams(*)

(*) means that the player was not on the ice for an ES goal against Petry. The only players in this group who registered more than 1GF/20 playing against Petry were McGinn, Hossa, Toews, Mitchell and Stewart.

We can leave it up to others to decide who faced the tougher competition. But I will say this. There is a reason why the Leafs signed Gunnarsson before Franson.

Bottom line for me is that Petry is a better defenseman than Franson. Personally I do not even think it is close.

Other than the higher caliber offensive oppositions Petry had to face, it's also easy for people to overlook Krueger's awful defensive system that Petry played under last season.

On the other hand, Franson played in a much better defensive system coached by a Norris trophy winning defenseman in Carlyle.

Consider the +/- for Smid -1, Whitney -7, N. Schultz -13, J. Schultz -17, Petry's at +1 was a pretty good indication that he is a bit underrated defensively.

 

[McClelland]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=53061#.UfPwZ210YTA

I know its Eklund, but cant he be right once in his lifetime!
Only for MacT to break his word and trade Gagner+ for a puckmoving first pair D.

 

[The Nuge]

Doesn't matter how much $$ Thompson has they have come out and said they wanna model their organization after the Nashville Predators. That said, I do like what they are doing/not doing.

You think, if it comes down to it, a multibillionaire would rather trade one of his core guys than spend to the cap? I certainly don't

 

[Mcnofool6110]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=53061#.UfPwZ210YTA

I know its Eklund, but cant he be right once in his lifetime!
Only for MacT to break his word and trade Gagner+ for a puckmoving first pair D.

So, Edmonton's not getting Grabovski?

 

[Fourier]

Was there a straight forward way to see who scored an ES goal against, or was this plenty of elbow grease on your part?

Solid post.

Look here for the specifics on Franson:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1210&withagainst=true&season=2012-13&sit=5v5

If you want a site with lots of info look here:

http://www.nicetimeonice.com/

 

[Fourier]

The talk is pick and prospect. At that price you have to make the call and find out what kind of pick and prospect.

26 year old top 4 d-men don't exactly come around to often, if the cost is assets that we have a lot of then a call has to be made. When the hell has it ever been a bad thing to have too many top 4 d-men?

Franson is basically a pp specialist and a bottom pairing guy at this point. He has yet to really establish himself as top four guy at ES. The Oilers have Schultz as the right handed pp guy. They also have Petry on the right side and have N. Schultz, Belov and Ference who can all play on the right. Even Klefbom can play the right side. Why would they give up assets and what little cap space they might have for a third player that they do not need?

 

[KMart27]

The talk is pick and prospect. At that price you have to make the call and find out what kind of pick and prospect.

26 year old top 4 d-men don't exactly come around to often, if the cost is assets that we have a lot of then a call has to be made. When the hell has it ever been a bad thing to have too many top 4 d-men?

It's not a bad thing. I think it would be great to have too many.

I would absolutely support making the call to find out the cost and what he's looking for contract wise. I just have limits on how far I go for Franson.

 

[Fourier]

Other than the higher caliber offensive oppositions Petry had to face, it's also easy for people to overlook Krueger's awful defensive system that Petry played under last season.

On the other hand, Franson played in a much better defensive system coached by a Norris trophy winning defenseman in Carlyle.

Consider the +/- for Smid -1, Whitney -7, N. Schultz -13, J. Schultz -17, Petry's at +1 was a pretty good indication that he is a bit underrated defensively.

I think the system hurt pretty much every dman except maybe Smid. It looked to me like he just ignored it.

I think that the Oilers might move N. Schultz but if they don't you may see a return of the more low event defender we saw when he first arrived. This could be especially true if he ends up playing on the 3rd pairing.

 

[Fourier]

It's not a bad thing. I think it would be great to have too many.

I would absolutely support making the call to find out the cost and what he's looking for contract wise. I just have limits on how far I go for Franson.

Franson is looking to get paid based on his point totals last year. If he wanted less than $3M he would have already been signed.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=53061#.UfPwZ210YTA

I know its Eklund, but cant he be right once in his lifetime!
Only for MacT to break his word and trade Gagner+ for a puckmoving first pair D.

If we could get Grabovski then trade Gagner for a top pairing dman, I'd be a happy camper. I'd also LMAO because MacT absolutely gives 0 ****s.

To Phoenix
Gagner
Musil
2015 2nd

To Edmonton
Yandle

To Nashville
Hemsky

To Edmonton
Gaustad
Clune

To Colorado
N Schultz

To Edmonton
McGinn

To Calgary
Smyth

To Edmonton
eternal gratitude for Feaster

Hall-RNH-Yakupov
Perron-Grabovski-Eberle
McGinn-Gordon-Jones
Clune/Joensuu-Gaustad-Lander
Clune/Joensuu

Yandle-Petry
Smid-J Schultz
Ference-(someone in the logjam)
2 of Belov/Grebeskov/Klefbom/Larsen/Potter

Dubnyk
LaBarbara