Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread (Part X)

[Natey]

Domi > Huberdaeu. Bad example.

Don't overvalue Huberdeau or drool to acquire him. He has offensive ability but he's soft man. Look at overall game vs just points.

Hubs is basically Drouin.

One headache on the team is enough.

 

[Simarino]

Since Anaheim aren't going anywhere, and Getlzlaf, Perry and Kesler aren't getting any younger. Anaheim should look at rebuilding.

I would offer them;

To Anaheim
Cale Fleury
Joni Ikonen
2nd pick

To Montreal
Hampus Lindholm

Lindholm will solidify our D and be Weber's permanent D partner.


Lindholm - Weber
Mete - Petry
Kulak - Rielly

If it dosnt hurt, you aint getting Lindholm!! It will cost at the very least Suzuki/Poehling/Brook+ 1st.. not spare parts Like a 2nd Ikonen and Fleury, Lindholm is a 25 years old stud dman.

 

[Natey]

Lehkonen on the verge of becoming a 4th liner and Huberdeau is a 25 y.o. PPG player.

That is all.

A 4th liner?

Man, give me a bunch more of him. 40 point 4th liners with incredible work ethic and good skating... I'll take 5 please.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hubs is basically Drouin.

One headache on the team is enough.

I'm interesting in acquiring Huberdeau but man... people drool over points and don't look at complete game.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree that Lehkonen is underrated but I think you are giving him too much credit and not enough to Huberdeau.

I think you fall for Huberdeau like the Coyotes fell for Galchenyuk. Offensive players but their complete game is not great. Lehkonen brings intensity game after game and he don't have the offensive ability Huberdeau or Galchenyuk have but he has more speed, grit, and is a much smarter hockey player. His complete game is very solid and not many give him credit. He is a huge part of the reasons why the Habs can compete. He is still improving at age 23 too.

Lehkonen and Juulsen = Huberdeau. It's very close and this has potential to back fire on us when you look back in 2 seasons. Mark this thread and throw it in my fact in 2 years if you wish. I'm not drooling over soft offensive players like Huberdeau.

Think about the reasons why people think Sergachev > Drouin.

 

[Roadhouse]

You are drooling over a soft offensive player. I'm interested in Huberdeau and it's to help our PP and add some scoring. But am I ignoring what Lehkonen does that Huberdeau can't? NO!

- Offensive ability: Huberdeau > Lehkonen

- Speed, Youth and improving, Grit, Overall Game: Lehkonen > Huberdeau

I'm interested in Huberdau but I know very well he is another Patch type player. He will float around out there and he needs his line-mates to produce. Lehkonen don't play that type of game and he would be a player we would miss. Especially our speed.

Be careful with what you wish for.

Huberdeau is a rare/expensive commodity around the league while Lehkonen is not, it's really just supply and demand. Lehkonen is not worth anywhere near Huberdeau on his own.

Drouin-Danault-Gallagher
Huberdeau-Domi-Shaw -- our new 'soft' LW plays with two pitbulls
Tatar-Kotka-Armia
Byron-Thompson-Weise

Florida is not going to let Huberdeau's goals leave town and get only a few back. The Panarin deal isn't yet in the bag. This would cost a lot.

 

[Milhouse40]

I think you fall for Huberdeau like the Coyotes fell for Galchenyuk. Offensive players but their complete game is not great. Lehkonen brings intensity game after game and he don't have the offensive ability Huberdeau or Galchenyuk have but he has more speed, grit, and is a much smarter hockey player. His complete game is very solid and not many give him credit. He is a huge part of the reasons why the Habs can compete. He is still improving at age 23 too.

Lehkonen and Juulsen = Huberdeau. It's very close and this has potential to back fire on us when you look back in 2 seasons. Mark this thread and throw it in my fact in 2 years if you wish. I'm not drooling over soft offensive players like Huberdeau.

Think about the reasons why people think Sergachev > Drouin.

Here's another take.....Huberdeau = Pacioretty.

Pacioretty is a better goal scorer but Huberdeau last year produce more than Pacioretty ever did in his career and he's 5 years younger and on a better contract.

Tatar >>>>>> Lehkonen
Suzuki >>>>> Juulsen
2nd round pick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nothing

So i think you'll have to get closer to what Vegas gave up to get Pacioretty cause a fringe 3rd liner + doubtful prospect isn't going to do it at all, not even close.

Considering they don't want to add salary on their payroll i think the offer that would do it would be:
Lehkonen + Suzuki or Poehling + MTL 2019 1st round pick.....and i would probably do it in the end.

 

[loudi94]

Looking back at MB's trade history and I have noticed that he has never made a deal in which he gave up quality in quantity for a player. What I mean is that most of his bigger deals have been one for one/picks or in Patches' trade he received the bigger package. Bundling up players and picks for a Huberdeau or Lindholm or Fowler etc. would be a first for him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Huberdeau is a rare/expensive commodity around the league while Lehkonen is not, it's really just supply and demand. Lehkonen is not worth anywhere near Huberdeau on his own.

Drouin-Danault-Gallagher
Huberdeau-Domi-Shaw -- our new 'soft' LW plays with two pitbulls
Tatar-Kotka-Armia
Byron-Thompson-Weise

Florida is not going to let Huberdeau's goals leave town and get only a few back. The Panarin deal isn't yet in the bag. This would cost a lot.

So was Patch. And we got a bad trending player in Tatar, A grade A prospect who has proven nothing yet, and a 2nd.

Patch > Huberdeau
- Lehkonen = Tatar (pre trade)
- Juulsen = Suzuki

My Lehkonen and Juulsen offer is fair. I'm not forcing the Panthers to take it but I'm not drooling over Huberdeau where I will provide pry-away value. However, if Stone was available in a sign and trade, I'm providing more value in return that I would for Huberdeau. Why? Cause I value complete hockey players.

 

[Saundies]

Looking back at MB's trade history and I have noticed that he has never made a deal in which he gave up quality in quantity for a player. What I mean is that most of his bigger deals have been one for one/picks or in Patches' trade he received the bigger package. Bundling up players and picks for a Huberdeau or Lindholm or Fowler etc. would be a first for him.

Which is why he won't.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Here's another take.....Huberdeau = Pacioretty.

Pacioretty is a better goal scorer but Huberdeau last year produce more than Pacioretty ever did in his career and he's 5 years younger and on a better contract.

Tatar >>>>>> Lehkonen
Suzuki >>>>> Juulsen
2nd round pick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nothing

So i think you'll have to get closer to what Vegas gave up to get Pacioretty cause a fringe 3rd liner + doubtful prospect isn't going to do it at all, not even close.

Considering they don't want to add salary on their payroll i think the offer that would do it would be:
Lehkonen + Suzuki or Poehling + MTL 2019 1st round pick.....and i would probably do it in the end.

You look at it one way and I look at it another. Please, reply back and tell me I am being ridiculous. This style will for sure trump your opinion over mind.

Huberdeau vs Patch: It's close one way or another. Patch will be paid more but has also proven more in his career. Both are similar players who don't play gritty games and float around and produce depending on who you play them with. Edge to Patch cause he has proven more in production

Tatar = Lehkonen: Remember, it's pre-trade. Not the value Tatar has today. And arguement can be made that Lehkonen had more value (pre Patch trade).

Suzuki = Juulsen: It's hard to compare value between these two. One has proven to show top 4D potential in the NHL and the other has not turned pro yet. Lets not crown Suzuki as a top 6 forward yet. Juulsen is a RD who played very well for us before he got hurt. He plays physical, skates well, and can move the puck. This is very valuable in today's NHL. Both are grade A prospects but at different points in development. As it stands today and pre Patch trade, I think they are equals.

2nd > Nothing: I didn't add cause I'm giving up two NHL young proven assets on the rise and Patch > Huberdeau

 

[Scriptor]

So was Patch. And we got a bad trending player in Tatar, A grade A prospect who has proven nothing yet, and a 2nd.

Patch > Huberdeau
- Lehkonen = Tatar (pre trade)
- Juulsen = Suzuki

My Lehkonen and Juulsen offer is fair. I'm not forcing the Panthers to take it but I'm not drooling over Huberdeau where I will provide pry-away value. However, if Stone was available in a sign and trade, I'm providing more value in return that I would for Huberdeau. Why? Cause I value complete hockey players.

Weird how that works with GMs not just giving you all of their best players for yours and letting themselves get clearly screwed over in a trade.

A prospect is a prospect and nothing is guaranteed. Suzuki is a high level prospect with lots of talent. Let,s hope he works out instead of characterizing him as a nothing proven yet prospect (name a player that hasn't played an NHL game but proven himself at the NHL level already -- hard to find).

You're fabulating when you think that the trade proposals are equivalent. It's so not close, I don't see how you're making your evaluations, plus a 2nd round pick is not negligible in today's NHL. At this point, the 2nd rounder is perhaps equivalent to Juulsen, given his recent health issues, even if he was a 1st round pick. I think that Fleury might end up the safer pick of the two.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Weird how that works with GMs not just giving you all of their best players for yours and letting themselves get clearly screwed over in a trade.

A prospect is a prospect and nothing is guaranteed. Suzuki is a high level prospect with lots of talent. Let,s hope he works out instead of characterizing him as a nothing proven yet prospect (name a player that hasn't played an NHL game but proven himself at the NHL level already -- hard to find).

You're fabulating when you think that the trade proposals are equivalent. It's so not close, I don't see how you're making your evaluations, plus a 2nd round pick is not negligible in today's NHL. At this point, the 2nd rounder is perhaps equivalent to Juulsen, given his recent health issues, even if he was a 1st round pick. I think that Fleury might end up the safer pick of the two.

You look at it one way and I look at it another. Please, reply back and tell me I am being ridiculous. This style will for sure trump your opinion over mind.

Huberdeau vs Patch: It's close one way or another. Patch will be paid more but has also proven more in his career. Both are similar players who don't play gritty games and float around and produce depending on who you play them with. Edge to Patch cause he has proven more in production. I think Patch is the better skater and players a better 200' game too.

Tatar = Lehkonen: Remember, it's pre-trade. Not the value Tatar has today. And arguement can be made that Lehkonen had more value (pre Patch trade).

Suzuki = Juulsen: It's hard to compare value between these two. One has proven to show top 4D potential in the NHL and the other has not turned pro yet. Lets not crown Suzuki as a top 6 forward yet. Juulsen is a RD who played very well for us before he got hurt. He plays physical, skates well, and can move the puck. This is very valuable in today's NHL. Both are grade A prospects but at different points in development. As it stands today and pre Patch trade, I think they are equals. If Suzuki was as good as you think, he would of had more than 3 assist in 5 WJC games. He's a grade A prospect, no more, no less. You have him pegged as a future top 6 forward and it's possible but he has not turned pro yet. We don't know and we can't pretend anything will happen for sure.

2nd > Nothing: I didn't add cause I'm giving up two NHL young proven assets on the rise and Patch > Huberdeau

 

[Milhouse40]

You look at it one way and I look at it another. Please, reply back and tell me I am being ridiculous. This style will for sure trump your opinion over mind.

Huberdeau vs Patch: It's close one way or another. Patch will be paid more but has also proven more in his career. Both are similar players who don't play gritty games and float around and produce depending on who you play them with.

Tatar = Lehkonen: Remember, it's pre-trade. Not the value Tatar has today. And arguement can be made that Lehkonen had more value value (pre Patch trade).

Suzuki = Juulsen: It's hard to compare value between these two. One has proven to show top 4D potential and the other has not turned pro yet. Lets not crown Suzuki as a top 6 forward yet. Juulsen is a RD who played very well for us before he got hurt. He plays physical, skates well, and can move the puck. This is very valuable in today's NHL.

2nd > Nothing: I didn't add cause I'm giving up two NHL young proven assets on the rise and Patch > Huberdeau

Tatar always were a top 6 winger, scored 20 goals in each of his last 4 seasons prior to this one.
Lehkonen never was a top 6 winger or expected to become a top 6 winger, never scored 20 goals.
So the value of Tatar was/is a lot more than Lehkonen.

Suzuki is much more valuable as a 13th overall pick who are killing the OHL for the last 2 years than Juulsen who wasn't even the best D on his team in junior. And Juulsen isn't a proven NHL young assets....at least not a top 4 proven asset, i still see him as a bottom pairing D at this point (That's all he proved....like Lehkonen proved only to be a good 3rd liner).....Tatar was a proven top 6/ 20-25 goals forwards.

I stand by my offer.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

So was Patch. And we got a bad trending player in Tatar, A grade A prospect who has proven nothing yet, and a 2nd.

Patch > Huberdeau
- Lehkonen = Tatar (pre trade)
- Juulsen = Suzuki

My Lehkonen and Juulsen offer is fair. I'm not forcing the Panthers to take it but I'm not drooling over Huberdeau where I will provide pry-away value. However, if Stone was available in a sign and trade, I'm providing more value in return that I would for Huberdeau. Why? Cause I value complete hockey players.

Huberdeau is better than Patch.

Where this thing is going?

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Look a little closer in overall game vs just points and goals. The gap between these two is not as massive as most think. Lehkonen's speed game is a huge part of our success this year. The idea here is the Panthers are trying to reduce salary and a Lehkonen/Juulsen package is a serious package they think about real hard. They also appear to need RD's. I'm not even sure I would do it. Huberdeau is soft and Lehkonen has more grit and speed.

Lehkonen:
- 15 to 25 goal potential
- 40 to 50 points potential
- 79 hits this year
- 23 giveaways this year
- 34 takeaways this year
- 15:48 Average ice time
- 0:47 Average PP time
- 2:22 Average PK time

Huberdeau:
- 20 to 30 goal potential
- 50 to 60 points potential
- 35 hits this year
- 55 giveaways this year
- 27 takeaways this year
- 18:48 Average ice time
- 3:32 Average PP time
- 0:05 Average PK time

Points/Goals Production: Huberdeau > Lehkonen
Speed, Youth, Grit, Overall game: Lehkonen > Huberdeau

Huberdeau is a 65pts player and up
Lehkonen is a 30-40 pts player

If the guy is on the market, they will receive a lot more than your original offer, not even counting the pick you want in return
Lehkonen is a good player, but my God some of you are really overrating his game this pas year
Potential is nice, but at one point he needs to hit it to start believing it

 

[Sterling Archer]

A 4th liner?

Man, give me a bunch more of him. 40 point 4th liners with incredible work ethic and good skating... I'll take 5 please.

Well he’s on a career best pace of 35 and averages 30 while his goal production has plummeted. Also he consistently plays top 9 min and given the depth of forwards we have I don’t think a two time 20 goal scorer like Byron is better off on the 4th in lieu of Lehkonen. LW depth should be Drouin, Tater, Byron, Lehkonen.

In any case, Huberdeau is MILES ahead of Lehkonens value. Any conversation otherwise is simply silly. Huberdeau top 6 winger and
Lehkonen is a bottom 6 winger.

 

[Roadhouse]

My Lehkonen and Juulsen offer is fair.

Not one person is backing you up on that offer being a fair deal, whether here or on the main boards. I think it's fair to say your offer is, well, unfair.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tatar always were a top 6 winger, scored 20 goals in each of his last 4 seasons prior to this one.
Lehkonen never was a top 6 winger or epected to become a top 6 winger, never scored 20 goals.
So the value of Tatar was/is a lot more than Lehkonen.

Suzuki is much more valuable as a 13th overall pick who are killing the OHL for the last 2 years than Juulsen who wasn't even the best D on his team in junior. And Juulsen isn't a proven NHL young assets....at least not a top 4 proven asset, i still see him as a bottom pairing D at this point (That's all he proved....like Lehkonen proved only to be a good 3rd liner).....Tatar was a proven top 6/ 20-25 goals forwards.

I stand by my offer.

Tatar was a cap dump and a disappointment in Vegas. He was not trending well. Most Habs fans felt at the time of the Patch trade, we could try to flip him for a 1st at the deadline. That 1st would of been 16-31 range. Would you trade Lehkonen for a 1st round pick 16-31 range? What are the chances you hit and that player becomes better than Lehkonen?

Suzuki has the potential to have more value vs Juulsen but both Ok in the roles they played at the WJC and that to me is the true test where it's best on best and what they looked like at age 19. I like Suzuki a lot but he has to prove his value and potential when he turns Pro. Juulsen has already showed top 4 RD NHL potential. It's hard to compare these two cause they are at different development points. Personally, I don't undervalue young players who show potential in the NHL at the age of 21. People are drooling over Suzuki and I like him too but I'm not putting him on a pedestal where I think he is this real for sure top 6 talent. He has a lot to prove to earn that value and Juulsen is ahead of him on the "prove it" evaluation due to age.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not one person is backing you up on that offer being a fair deal, whether here or on the main boards. I think it's fair to say your offer is, well, unfair.

Nobody backed me up when I said the Habs would fight for a wild card spot this year. I don't value popularity on HF boards. You can if you want to

 

[Adriatic]

Look a little closer in overall game vs just points and goals. The gap between these two is not as massive as most think. Lehkonen's speed game is a huge part of our success this year. The idea here is the Panthers are trying to reduce salary and a Lehkonen/Juulsen package is a serious package they think about real hard. They also appear to need RD's. I'm not even sure I would do it. Huberdeau is soft and Lehkonen has more grit and speed.

Lehkonen:
- 15 to 25 goal potential
- 40 to 50 points potential
- 79 hits this year
- 23 giveaways this year
- 34 takeaways this year
- 15:48 Average ice time
- 0:47 Average PP time
- 2:22 Average PK time

Huberdeau:
- 20 to 30 goal potential
- 50 to 60 points potential
- 35 hits this year
- 55 giveaways this year
- 27 takeaways this year
- 18:48 Average ice time
- 3:32 Average PP time
- 0:05 Average PK time

Points/Goals Production: Huberdeau > Lehkonen
Speed, Youth, Grit, Overall game: Lehkonen > Huberdeau

What am I reading?? I absolutely love Lekhonen but it's apples and oranges. Huberdeau will finish the year with at least double the points of Lekhonen. The guy is 25 years old ppg player that is a much much rarer commodity. If they put Huberdeau on the market they will get a lot more than that offer.

 

[Natey]

Well he’s on a career best pace of 35 and averages 30 while his goal production has plummeted. Also he consistently plays top 9 min and given the depth of forwards we have I don’t think a two time 20 goal scorer like Byron is better off on the 4th in lieu of Lehkonen. LW depth should be Drouin, Tater, Byron, Lehkonen.

In any case, Huberdeau is MILES ahead of Lehkonens value. Any conversation otherwise is simply silly. Huberdeau top 6 winger and
Lehkonen is a bottom 6 winger.

Lehkonen is a middle 6 winger.

And yes Hubs has more value than Lehkonen.. But not by as much as you'd think. Hubs is another headache on the ice like Drouin. You never know what you're going to get. He could score 3 points a night and cost you 4. I'd rather build my team with more players like Domi and Tatar and Gallagher and hell, even Danault if he can produce 55~ points a year.

If we had another Drouin, you need to upgrade our defense fast.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What am I reading?? I absolutely love Lekhonen but it's apples and oranges. Huberdeau will finish the year with at least double the points of Lekhonen. The guy is 25 years old ppg player that is a much much rarer commodity. If they put Huberdeau on the market they will get a lot more than that offer.

I'm not saying Huberdeau = Lehkonen. What I am saying is the gap in value when you look at overall game (not just points), it's not as massive as what most people think.

I'm interested in Huberdeau but I think Stone is twice the player Huberdeau is. I'm not looking at just points. I'm looking at overall game.

 

[Milhouse40]

Tatar was a cap dump and a disappointment in Vegas. He was not trending well. Most Habs fans felt at the time of the Patch trade, we could try to flip him for a 1st at the deadline. That 1st would of been 16-31 range. Would you trade Lehkonen for a 1st round pick 16-31 range? What are the chances you hit and that player becomes better than Lehkonen?

Suzuki has the potential to have more value vs Juulsen but both Ok in the roles they played at the WJC and that to me is the true test where it's best on best and what they looked like at age 19. I like Suzuki a lot but he has to prove his value and potential when he turns Pro. Juulsen has already showed top 4 RD NHL potential. It's hard to compare these two cause they are at different development points. Personally, I don't undervalue young players who show potential in the NHL at the age of 21. People are drooling over Suzuki and I like him too but I'm not putting him on a pedestal where I think he is this real for sure top 6 talent. He has a lot to prove to earn that value and Juulsen is ahead of him on the "prove it" evaluation due to age.

Nope, Juulsen never showed top 4 RD potential, not even close.
I'm not drooling over Suzuki but he has much more value around the NHL than Juulsen.


Hey, Muzzin got a 1st round pick + 2 good prospects for 2 years.....the market is what it is. You won't get Huberdeau for 4 years for a 3rd liner and a meh prospect, that's a guaranteed....you won't get it unless you gave up something that you don't want to give up.

Hey Drouin got (basically) the best prospect the Habs had at the time who was a 9th overall pick....and Drouin wasn't even close to Huberdeau's value at the time.

 

[Scriptor]

You look at it one way and I look at it another. Please, reply back and tell me I am being ridiculous. This style will for sure trump your opinion over mind.

Huberdeau vs Patch: It's close one way or another. Patch will be paid more but has also proven more in his career. Both are similar players who don't play gritty games and float around and produce depending on who you play them with. Edge to Patch cause he has proven more in production. I think Patch is the better skater and players a better 200' game too.

Tatar = Lehkonen: Remember, it's pre-trade. Not the value Tatar has today. And arguement can be made that Lehkonen had more value (pre Patch trade).

Suzuki = Juulsen: It's hard to compare value between these two. One has proven to show top 4D potential in the NHL and the other has not turned pro yet. Lets not crown Suzuki as a top 6 forward yet. Juulsen is a RD who played very well for us before he got hurt. He plays physical, skates well, and can move the puck. This is very valuable in today's NHL. Both are grade A prospects but at different points in development. As it stands today and pre Patch trade, I think they are equals. If Suzuki was as good as you think, he would of had more than 3 assist in 5 WJC games. He's a grade A prospect, no more, no less. You have him pegged as a future top 6 forward and it's possible but he has not turned pro yet. We don't know and we can't pretend anything will happen for sure.

2nd > Nothing: I didn't add cause I'm giving up two NHL young proven assets on the rise and Patch > Huberdeau

I understand the argument for Tatar = Lehkonen at the time of the trade, as everyone assumed -- then -- that Tatar would be set loose in a trade by the deadline this year. Fans had lost hope for the winger and those that pretend they expected him to bounce back for a career year have to be fooling themselves.

Where I don't agree is the Juulsen = Suzuki argument. You'd have to give higher upside in a Brook over Suzuki, I think, plus a high pick like a 1st rounder to trump the 2nd from Vegas in the other trade. Huberdeau is younger than Pacioretty was and, unlike the other, is clearly on an upswing at a PPG pace this season, following a 69-point rebound year.

Pacioretty had a history of scoring, but he was gradually moving into the twilight of his career on the heels of a forgettable season.

Huberdeau may also be soft, but he has more value long term than Pacioretty had and appears to be breaking out towards an upside that Pacioretty never had. He also has an extremely respectable cap hit of 5.9M for another four years term, instead of being an UFA looking for a contract between 7M and 8M.

I apologize if the response was a bit dismissive or trite, even, the last time around, but your position is overly set in stone for a proposal that doesn't match up against the other one as readily as you insist it does, IMO. There's discussion, but I get the feeling you need to force feed this opinion and it's not one of the better ones compared to others you have set forth in the past.

No offense intended