Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 62
- Thread starter Lshap
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Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Agreed. If Molson is OK with retention and he can still earn a profit, we should be sending out a memo with "up to 50% retention" on all 3 of Price, Gallagher, Petry. The yearly numbers in both cap hits and actual salary is not as bad as it might appear without looking. Imagine the traffic flow of phone calls and conversations other GM's would be focused on?
Might not happen this deadline but who knows what could develop:
* Price available at $6M (+/-)
* Gallagher available at $4.25M (+/-)
* Petry available at $4.5M (+/-)
My personal strategy would be to see what Molson can stomach for retention and then send out a memo to all teams. These guys available with substantial retention if we get the futures we want in return. And no, we are not liquidating them in trade value.
Planting seeds and GM's would get attached to the idea of one of those players on their team at a very good cap hit. This is how we get the best futures return and reinforce our rebuild strategy where it's also accelerated.
danyhabsfan
Registered User
I wouldn't retain that much on Price and Gallagher. Their contract are way too long.
I'd try to see if we can retain something like 2M on Price and another team 2M. (double retention, his cap hit would be around 6.5M)
The players/picks won’t need to get paid until Price contract will be off the book. Makes no difference.
I would even say, retain 50% and try to pry the maximum in a deal
If we're retaining salary on Price & Gallagher for the next 5 & 6 years respectively...you damn right now we need to get the best deal we can for them.
Actually finding a team willing to pay that price to make it worth it, is another story.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Here is a very deep context breakout showing the actual numbers at play. The more I dig, the more it makes sense to me if Molson can stomach the actual money and we get the futures in return we want.
There are multiple things we can try but my goal is to get the best futures return possible. I'm not moving them cause I want to liquidate them in value. If you are curious, see below for the numbers in both Cap Hit and Actual money over the next 3-5 years if they are traded this summer with 50% retention. (example purposes). And remember, these are 50% retention numbers and the overall average might be less than that. Best to go with extreme cases when you propose this idea to Molson so he can evaluate the money. Cap space is not needed if we do a full rebuild. That rebuild will last 3-5 years before we should be spending max to the cap again. And also consider that in 3 years, the cap is going to skyrocket. I see opportunity, not problems. Historical cap retention move and a tough decision no doubt about it. But if we get the futures we want, do it!
Do what it takes to get the best futures return! That's my strategy. Make Molson spend his money. If the Wild can manage $12M -$14M of dead cap during Covid flat cap years where they are not 100% rebuilding, we can certainly manage it during a full rebuild that last 3-5 years.
I also believe that Price will probably not play his age 38 season (25/26) and retire or go on LTIR. We can live with it if he still plays his 38 season but it's something worth noting if he don't. Makes it look even better if you think the Habs will rise faster than expected.
The numbers in red below is what Molson would really be looking into after you propose this to him. I don't have all the financials but I do believe Molson can cover that when season tickets are renewed every summer. And even with this retention, I don't see us up against the max cap. This might actually help us reach the cap floor while we inject several ELC's in those 3-5 years.
Who else other than Suzuki has signing bonus money? Suzuki gets $4M this summer and don't get singing bonus money until the 28/29 season
22/23:
* $11.625M dead cap hit
* $4.875M as signing bonus paid in the prior off season
* $6M prorated as the season moves along
23/24:
* $11.625M dead cap hit
* $4.75M as signing bonus paid in the prior off season
* $7.25M prorated as the season moves along
24/25:
* $11.625M dead cap hit
* $3.75M as signing bonus paid in the prior off season
* $7M prorated as the season moves along
25/26:
* $11.625M dead cap hit
* $2.75M as signing bonus paid in the prior off season
* $4.25M prorated as the season moves along
26/27:
* $11.625M dead cap hit
* $0M as signing bonus paid in the prior off season
* $2M prorated as the season moves along
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If you draft or aquire minor league players. They probably wont start in the big league (or play more than 9 games). Price has 4 years left, Petry 3. Thus making aquiring picks and players that are not in the nhl right now a non issue, cap wise.
You can even grab cap dump to fill jesreys.
If the players the Habs acquire for Price & Petry, aren't playing in the NHL within 4 years...and we're retaining salary on their contracts.
It was a terrible, terrible deal.
For that level of salary retention...the return needs to justify it.
Hins77
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2013
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Many posters here wants to retain players like gally/price/petry during 4/5 of their whole contract. I didnt made a real research. But i would like to know wich players is currently retain by another team for 4/5 years? On 50%. Arizona retain 1,2 on oel contracts. But this is not a big deal.
Don't mean to dismiss the post - you clearly put a lot of thought/work into it....but i'm not sure these numbers are accurate.
Also are these numbers only for Price?
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Hins77
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2013
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Its saying. Even arizona doesnt want to be handcuffed like this for that long. There is no reason to do this. Every team can be competitive after a 2 years rebuild/retool. name it like you want
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
It just doesn't reconcile with the rules on salary retention that I read.
There's also the question of paying half of a player's salary (in actual dollars) vs what it represents on the cap (cap hit).
Those are 2 different things
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Coyotes are a bad example. They are not a big market team that generates the amount of money the Habs do. Not many can pull that off but if anybody can, it's the Habs.
I wonder how much money the Leafs paid in dead cap during their youth/rebuild years? I know it's different cause they didn't retain that much to unload Kessel and Phaneuf but they did add Horton and others who was a uninsured contract on LTIR.
Why? What are you going to do with a 3rd? Draft someone 90th overall that has a 85% chance of never playing for your team? What is the point in that?
damn im not clear
They will be playing in the league at a maximum of 925k (plus bonuses) for entrey level contract
So Price 5.25 + 925 + 925 + cap dump of 3.4 = Price contract 10.5
But you do have 3 players instead of one
Then the timing of these contract, after entry level, will match Price off the book.
I hope Im a bit clearer.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I understand how retention works. It's 50% across the board (applies to all of signing bonus, Cap hit, and Actual salary during the season).
Care to point out something in particular so we can go through that example? Like you said, there was a fair amount of time to calculate it manually so if you think there is an error, show me one example?
Maybe the reason why is because for that level of retention...the return is so out of whack that it makes it unrealistic.
Again, understanding your score of a historic move.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
It's a combo of several things.
* Players in their 30's are harder to move than in their 20's.
* Flat cap when we are trying to move guys with high AAV's out.
* Best Futures we can get and I'm not really counting on getting a star out of it. More about accelerating the rebuild and ensuring we have at least 3 tank years.
Not going to liquidate them in value but I do expect to see at least 3- 1st round picks and 3- Grade A prospects. I'm not overly worried about paying their salary if we can live with the financials while these beloved guys are possibly winning cup with other teams.
Looking for better than the Roy trade though. That's for sure
- Jun 24, 2012
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You’re just covering your bases. I think there’s a writer in you that goes beyond this forum where things get forgotten too quickly, once a new thread or even a new thread page surfaces. You’re putting in a lot of time, you’re passionate about your opinions, you do your homework — I’d be looking to optimize the combo of those traits if it were me. Just my 2 cents.
Well it's maybe not your calculations that are not accurate rather the interpretation of it.
Why is it you wrote that Molson would only care about the numbers in red?
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