Trade "PAP, Boyes, Seto, Glencross" at trade deadline

[Sam I Am]

Since everyone seems to be so sure they're in on this big idea and plan and it's so obvious. Let's see you actually suggest how it should be done.

Here's a pretty good lineup done by Quares27 in the waiver wire thread.

JVR Kadri Parenteau
Lupul Bozak Grabner
Winnik Holland Komarov
Matthias Arcobello Spaling
Panik


Now - fit in Glencross, Boyes and Seto. (PAP is already in there so you've even got a head start).

Pretty easy to bash me without having to actually back it up. You've gotten a full roster, so 3 players have to go.

If you've got PAP on the top line--even in pencil--it's gonna be a very long season.

 

[Bullseye]

Pretty simple, actually.

Trade Bozak, for a conditional 7th if necessary. Management was reportedly looking for a 2nd, but come way down on that. Replace him with Boyes

I agree maybe Spaling yes down but more likely Glencross and/or Set get released. The Bozak comment is way off base.

 

[Leafsman]

Pretty simple, actually.

Trade Bozak, for a conditional 7th if necessary. Management was reportedly looking for a 2nd, but come way down on that. Replace him with Boyes.

Send Spaling to the Marlies, or trade him if someone is willing to offer anything. Replace him with Glencross. If Spaling is on the Marlies, he's there for injury replacement.

Don't sign Setoguchi. He's worse that everyone else on the roster.

Just to clarify! your plan is to

Trade Bozak for next to nothing.
LIKELY lose Spaling for nothing via waivers.

to sign Glencross and Boyes so you can HOPEFULLY trade them for some picks that will HOPEFULLY garnish something.

You want to lose TWO decent assets to acquire TWO questionable assets in hopes to acquire TWO possible assets?

 

[Mess]

Just to clarify! your plan is to

Trade Bozak for next to nothing.
LIKELY lose Spaling for nothing via waivers.

to sign Glencross and Boyes so you can HOPEFULLY trade them for some picks that will HOPEFULLY garnish something.

You want to lose TWO decent assets to acquire TWO questionable assets in hopes to acquire TWO possible assets?

I'm hoping Boyes and Glencross earn contracts because I believe they have higher TD trade value then some players currently under contract.

 

[Menzinger]

I'm hoping Boyes and Glencross earn contracts because I believe they have higher TD trade value then some players currently under contract.

Agreed. Boyes in particular at say 1 year 1 million could be a very valuable piece at the deadline for a team wanting to add some veteran leadership and depth to a playoff bound team

 

[Leafsman]

I'm hoping Boyes and Glencross earn contracts because I believe they have higher TD trade value then some players currently under contract.

Hasn't there been 40 years of discarding assets for other hopeful assets what has got this team into this mess.

What's the difference between signing vet's in hopes they're going to play well to get you into the playoffs and signing vets in hopes they're going to play well and get you a pick.

Throwing away Spaling to sign a couple vets in hopes of getting a pick or two is old school Leaf thinking. The kids 27 with decent size and could be a good player (which if you must have picks can also be traded).

I think Leafs nation new slogan should be:
Leafs Nation: **** our players, we'll take the mystery box

 

[Mess]

Agreed. Boyes in particular at say 1 year 1 million could be a very valuable piece at the deadline for a team wanting to add some veteran leadership and depth to a playoff bound team

I see Glencross also as a Winnik like player that playoff teams love to add at the TD for depth and versatility. Look at the return we got for Winnik?

Arcobello was on 4 teams last year, a marginal NHLer and was passed around on waivers. Who is going to give up anything for that at the TD?

If you sign Glencross and waive Arcobello, then you have both players, because I doubt anyone claims him on waivers at $1.1 mil 1-way contract and then you can recall him from Marlies as injury recall if needed. Also the way the CBA works you get a -$925k credit on the cap space recapture for demoting a 1-way contract and the Leafs could give Glencross that ~$1 mil similar contract and have 2 players occupying the same cap space essentially.

 

[Ovate]

Just to clarify! your plan is to

Trade Bozak for next to nothing.
LIKELY lose Spaling for nothing via waivers.

to sign Glencross and Boyes so you can HOPEFULLY trade them for some picks that will HOPEFULLY garnish something.

You want to lose TWO decent assets to acquire TWO questionable assets in hopes to acquire TWO possible assets?

If Bozak and Spaling have value, then we get that value. If Bozak and Spaling DON'T have value, then I would rather sign Glencross and Boyes to cheap moveable contracts. If we can't get any value for them, then Bozak and Spaling are not decent assets. They are not even questionable assets. They are worthless assets.

Glencross and Boyes are more likely to have seasons where they boost their value than Bozak and Spaling will. Their performances last year were better, their underlying numbers last year were better, and their contracts will be better.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Hasn't there been 40 years of discarding assets for other hopeful assets what has got this team into this mess.

What's the difference between signing vet's in hopes they're going to play well to get you into the playoffs and signing vets in hopes they're going to play well and get you a pick.

Throwing away Spaling to sign a couple vets in hopes of getting a pick or two is old school Leaf thinking. The kids 27 with decent size and could be a good player (which if you must have picks can also be traded).

I think Leafs nation new slogan should be:
Leafs Nation: **** our players, we'll take the mystery box

No .. Building through the draft is a direction from Shanahan ... Old school Leaf thinking would be to sign these vets to multi year contracts with bigger cap hits to help the team try and 'win now'.

The idea is to create competition where the best will survive. At the same time, there will be ample depth in case the play of a player slips during the season. Then at the deadline, move some players for picks and build a team through the draft.

Spaling is a UFA after this season, and will likely be a trade chip at the deadline if he makes the team and has a solid season.

 

[Leafsman]

Agreed. Boyes in particular at say 1 year 1 million could be a very valuable piece at the deadline for a team wanting to add some veteran leadership and depth to a playoff bound team

Since 2013 offseason - Boyes has not been signed TWICE, he signed after a PTO with Florida.

AND - had his contract bought out!

He hasn't been a valuable piece yet so I'm not sure why you're banking on him so much.

 

[UllmansTiger]

Pretty simple, actually.

Trade Bozak, for a conditional 7th if necessary. Management was reportedly looking for a 2nd, but come way down on that. Replace him with Boyes.

Send Spaling to the Marlies, or trade him if someone is willing to offer anything. Replace him with Glencross. If Spaling is on the Marlies, he's there for injury replacement.

Don't sign Setoguchi. He's worse that everyone else on the roster.

I don't think the Leafs are going to replace two centres with two wingers ( though arguably with Spaling ), and they're certainly not going to go that low on Bozak. Where the trade should happen is probably with JVR to really maximize the return on the roster overall ( the trickle down with those minutes would be substantial ), though the best time to do that is... at the deadline. Anywho, I think the Leafs have room to sign one of them now and could make a low grade trade to allow for another one if they really want to.

It's not a big deal either way.

 

[Leafsman]

If Bozak and Spaling have value, then we get that value. If Bozak and Spaling DON'T have value, then I would rather sign Glencross and Boyes to cheap moveable contracts. If we can't get any value for them, then Bozak and Spaling are not decent assets. They are not even questionable assets. They are worthless assets.

Glencross and Boyes are more likely to have seasons where they boost their value than Bozak and Spaling will. Their performances last year were better, their underlying numbers last year were better, and their contracts will be better.

That is ridiculous?!? Nobody has wanted Boyes for a few years and you think he's all of a sudden got value because Toronto plays him.

You want Glencross and Boyes because you think they can be traded now. Glencross maybe since he bagged a 2nd/3rd last year but you'd have to see preseason.

Boyes has two PTO's and a bought-out contract while Spaling was in a trade bringing Kessel - Not sure where your getting Boyes has more potential. All indications show he doesn't.

Because a player can't be moved doesn't make them worthless, it just doesn't satify your impatience. Bozak can be held onto and moved next offseason or next TD. The only one suggesting he has no value is you because you want trades and are unwilling to be patient.

 

[Ovate]

That is ridiculous?!? Nobody has wanted Boyes for a few years and you think he's all of a sudden got value because Toronto plays him.

You want Glencross and Boyes because you think they can be traded now. Glencross maybe since he bagged a 2nd/3rd last year but you'd have to see preseason.

Boyes has two PTO's and a bought-out contract while Spaling was in a trade bringing Kessel - Not sure where your getting Boyes has more potential. All indications show he doesn't.

Because a player can't be moved doesn't make them worthless, it just doesn't satify your impatience. Bozak can be held onto and moved next offseason or next TD. The only one suggesting he has no value is you because you want trades and are unwilling to be patient.

Boyes has outscored, outplayed, and has better underlying numbers than Spaling. He'll also be cheaper. He was bought out by Florida so they could play their youth, not due to performance issues.

Spaling was part of the Kessel trade as a salary dump, he represented no value. If it had been Scuderi instead, that wouldn't make Scuderi any more valuable.

I can't tell if you're grasping at straws or you just don't understand context.

Why do you think Bozak is going to improve in value by next offseason or next TD? He's likely going to get worse without Kessel. Trading him now also allows us to sign a guy like Glencross, who we could move for value this year, and repeat that twice in the next two years too.

 

[Leafsman]

Boyes has outscored, outplayed, and has better underlying numbers than Spaling. He'll also be cheaper. He was bought out by Florida so they could play their youth, not due to performance issues.

Spaling was part of the Kessel trade as a salary dump, he represented no value. If it had been Scuderi instead, that wouldn't make Scuderi any more valuable.

I can't tell if you're grasping at straws or you just don't understand context.

Why do you think Bozak is going to improve in value by next offseason or next TD? He's likely going to get worse without Kessel. Trading him now also allows us to sign a guy like Glencross, who we could move for value this year, and repeat that twice in the next two years too.

I'm done! Many of you have shown that all you want is trades and picks and are willing to sacrifice assets to get them. You have no patience and are so quick to discard potential to grasp false potential that it defies all logic.

The fact that in one breath you defend Brad Boyes who has shown ZERO interest or potential while in the other suggesting zero worth in Bozak going forward is ridiculous and hypocritical. Anyone suggesting throwing away Bozak or Spaling to grab Brad "PTO" Boyes is not worth debating. Spaling has been included in trades bringing Kessel and James Neal. Boyes has been involved in bringing a 2nd round pick in 2011! Good luck with that!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Put Spaling on waivers?!?!

No chance anybody they just traded for/signed gets waived or cut before the season.

They didn't just trade for Spaling to loose him to waivers. Never in a million years will that happen.

Where in the hell did people get this notion that because a few guys get PTO's that all of a sudden they're top priority in fitting in.

Boyes, Glencross and Seto are not compteing with Arcobello, Spaling, PAP or anyone else that was OFFERED A CONTRACT.

Unbelievable! You blatantly criticize people for not seeing some obvious plan then suggest waiving a guy we just traded Kessel for without even a regular season game.

Thank god this team is not run by fans - they'd be trying to fit skates on draft picks in order to ice a full team.

I agree - I'm glad you're not running the team.

 

[Menzinger]

What is it about Spaling that makes him an attractive piece to hold on to. Yes he's 27, but he's had a rather lacklustre career. I don't see him being in a playoff bound/contending Leafs team three years from now. He's a stopgap bench warmer until then.

If it comes down between who between say him or Boyes, or Glencross will be the most "tradable" asset for the leafs come he deadline, and that's the one who should be kept.

None of them will be with the Leafs next season anyways.

 

[UllmansTiger]

I'm done! Many of you have shown that all you want is trades and picks and are willing to sacrifice assets to get them. You have no patience and are so quick to discard potential to grasp false potential that it defies all logic.

To be fair, most of what is being suggested is due to the team being shy on NHL talent and trying to find a way to change that, which will take time, patience and more darts at the draft board with Hunter in charge ( ie, someone who has an eye for talent ). Getting those darts is what I presume the thread is about, most of the players being debated will have little if any influence on the team in 3 years when they are becoming, hopefully, more competitive. Losing a Spaling on waivers, signing a Boyes with an eye to developing talent in the minors and maybe getting a draft pick, or the opposite... is not that big of a deal.

We're discussing the rearrangement of a bottom 5 NHL roster currently and what might help down the line.

 

[Duke Silver]

Put Spaling on waivers?!?!

No chance anybody they just traded for/signed gets waived or cut before the season.

Like Kontiola last year? What about trading Colborne two seasons ago?

They didn't just trade for Spaling to loose him to waivers. Never in a million years will that happen.

Where in the hell did people get this notion that because a few guys get PTO's that all of a sudden they're top priority in fitting in.

Where in the hell did you get the impression we were going to sign all 3?

Boyes, Glencross and Seto are not compteing with Arcobello, Spaling, PAP or anyone else that was OFFERED A CONTRACT.

Parenteau and Spaling, probably not. Arcobello? I don't see why not. He shouldn't feel safe at all. This is coming from someone who applauded his signing.

Unbelievable! You blatantly criticize people for not seeing some obvious plan then suggest waiving a guy we just traded Kessel for without even a regular season game.

Why does it matter that he was included in the Kessel deal? Many viewed his inclusion as a way to make the dollars work on Pittsburgh's side. You say this as if he was coveted?

Thank god this team is not run by fans - they'd be trying to fit skates on draft picks in order to ice a full team.

Quite the opposite. Trying to fit skates on players who can bring in the best return in a season where we're not trying to win.

But agreed on the team not being run by fans. Especially the ones like you who can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Ovate]

I'm done! Many of you have shown that all you want is trades and picks and are willing to sacrifice assets to get them. You have no patience and are so quick to discard potential to grasp false potential that it defies all logic.

The fact that in one breath you defend Brad Boyes who has shown ZERO interest or potential while in the other suggesting zero worth in Bozak going forward is ridiculous and hypocritical. Anyone suggesting throwing away Bozak or Spaling to grab Brad "PTO" Boyes is not worth debating. Spaling has been included in trades bringing Kessel and James Neal. Boyes has been involved in bringing a 2nd round pick in 2011! Good luck with that!

It's amazing how their actual on ice play is not something you are judging any player on. Spaling was a throw in in the Neal and Kessel trades, so he must be good! Boyes and Glencross are on PTOs, so they must be bad! Bozak has worth... for some reason? You're not really saying any reason why you think Bozak is worth something.

 

[Leafsman]

Where in the hell did you get the impression we were going to sign all 3?

It is literally the title and premise of this thread! I said no way you sign all of them to just trade them then all of you pooped yourselves. Now you all sing a different tune!

Talk about can't see the forest for the tree's!!!

 

[Leafsman]

It's amazing how their actual on ice play is not something you are judging any player on. Spaling was a throw in in the Neal and Kessel trades, so he must be good! Boyes and Glencross are on PTOs, so they must be bad! Bozak has worth... for some reason? You're not really saying any reason why you think Bozak is worth something.

I said I'm done with you.

There is no way you can argue Bozak has no worth while at the same time arguing Boyes does. If you suggest Boyes and Gkencross have worth then surely a younger bettr player does also, it may not be as liquid but then again you are apparently pretty quick to cash in for lesser turns to appease your impatience.

Boyes is bad because he's been on PTO's the last two years and last time no one wanted him and his contract was bought-out! But keep polishing that terd, one day it'll shine.

You make sense and we can talk otherwise I'm really done with you

 

[Menzinger]

A team may think Bozak is the better player - but Bozak is signed for an expensive multi year contract, which makes him unappealing. A team may be more motivated to trade for a lesser player in a cheaper and and short term co retract.

Just because here isn't a market for Bozak (or Lupul for that matter) doesn't mean there won't be one for a Boyes, or Glencross, ect. Contracts matter - especially for a playoff bound team that's tight against the cap but still wants to add depth. It's a lot easier to add a player who comes worth a 1 million dollar cap hit than it is to for 4,2 million.

 

[Leafsman]

A team may think Bozak is the better player - but Bozak is signed for an expensive multi year contract, which makes him unappealing. A team may be more motivated to trade for a lesser player in a cheaper and and short term co retract.

Just because here isn't a market for Bozak (or Lupul for that matter) doesn't mean there won't be one for a Boyes, or Glencross, ect. Contracts matter - especially for a playoff bound team that's tight against the cap but still wants to add depth. It's a lot easier to add a player who comes worth a 1 million dollar cap hit than it is to for 4,2 million.

The problem lies in disposing of a future better asset to obtain a lesser asset just because you want to trade now.

Boyes has not had any interest in over a few years so there is no evidence to suggest all of a sudden there will be. Glencross got a 2nd/3rd if he shows he can play at the same rate then room can be made without sacrificing a potential good asset.

Bozak has a caphit of $4.25M which is not huge or unmoveable. If someone needs a serviceable center Bozak is young and could get a return. Maybe not now, but come TD if bozak plays well someone could grab him - may actually pay more if bozak is performing and not just a rental player.

Bozak has value and can be moved at some point and it is crazy to just discard him because Boyes, Seto or Glencross may have potential to grab a pick.

Not currently being movable does not equal not worth anything especially for a team in no big hurry.

This is a full rebuild so I'm not sure where this urgency is that we have to get as many draft picks now as possible or bust. A 4th this year is still not as good as a 2nd next year.

I'm more than happy to keep a player and wait than to discard them for immediate returns.

 

[Suntouchable13]

The problem lies in disposing of a future better asset to obtain a lesser asset just because you want to trade now.

Boyes has not had any interest in over a few years so there is no evidence to suggest all of a sudden there will be. Glencross got a 2nd/3rd if he shows he can play at the same rate then room can be made without sacrificing a potential good asset.

Bozak has a caphit of $4.25M which is not huge or unmoveable. If someone needs a serviceable center Bozak is young and could get a return. Maybe not now, but come TD if bozak plays well someone could grab him - may actually pay more if bozak is performing and not just a rental player.

Bozak has value and can be moved at some point and it is crazy to just discard him because Boyes, Seto or Glencross may have potential to grab a pick.

Not currently being movable does not equal not worth anything especially for a team in no big hurry.

This is a full rebuild so I'm not sure where this urgency is that we have to get as many draft picks now as possible or bust. A 4th this year is still not as good as a 2nd next year.

I'm more than happy to keep a player and wait than to discard them for immediate returns.

Bozak has very little upside.

 

[Leafsman]

Bozak has very little upside.

I disagree but it is irrelevant regardless as it is a wait and see.
This is a whole new ballgame this year and without Kessel and under Babcock anything is possible.

Bozak may see a fall in offensive numbers without Kessel.
He may see a big increase in defensive stats without Kessel.

One thing I'm very comfotable in saying is that I wouldn't be banking on a Boyes/Seto's current trade value over Bozak's possible future value and I sure as hell wouldn't sacrifice it as suggested here.