Trade "PAP, Boyes, Seto, Glencross" at trade deadline

[Run705]

Been seeing people state this is every thread. I don't think you guys realize these guys are that Babcock most likely wanted on his team. This is a new era and Babcock likes veterans on his team, that's a pretty well known fact. If the guys on the PTO's get 1-2 year deals I can see them not getting traded at all. Instead we should be trying to flip players like Lupul, Bozak, Reimer at the deadline as they most likely aren't in any long term plans with the team.

I don't think you guys realize that PAP, Glencross, Setoguchi, Boyes and Grabner are still pretty damn good players and have a lot to offer. Players have down years all the time, and all the guys we signed to PTO's definitely deserved a contract from teams, but it's been a strange off season when it comes to signings.

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[dubplatepressure]

Wanted enough for a PTO. Let's keep it in perspective here. If they were good enough for contracts they'd have had them already.

 

[Cor]

That's why we brought them here.

If they look good, we'll sign them, hopefully they continue to play well enough, and send them to playoff teams for picks at the deadlines.


These are guys that management has targeted as solid players that we're willing to give a chance on, but don't get the delusion that they are here to stay for multiple years.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Three of those guys aren't even on the team.

 

[Eb]

Little double standard here. Parenteau, Setoguchi veterans but not Lupul, Bozak and Reimer?

Lupul and Bozak not getting the same off year excuse as Setoguchi and Boyes?

Shiny new toy effect I guess.

 

[Run705]

Little double standard here. Parenteau, Setoguchi veterans but not Lupul, Bozak and Reimer?

Lupul and Bozak not getting the same off year excuse as Setoguchi and Boyes?

Shiny new toy effect I guess.

I've been a big fan of PAP, Grabner, Seto and Glencross (not so much Boyes) for years now. Have watched them play over the years hoping they'd become Leafs and somehow it's actually happened in one off season.

I have no doubt in my mind they WILL impress at training camp and get contracts at least Seto and Glencross will. I feel like people are writing them off too soonly when we haven't even seen them in a Leaf jersey.

We all know Bozak and Lupul are gonna be gone soon.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Been seeing people state this is every thread. I don't think you guys realize these guys are that Babcock most likely wanted on his team. This is a new era and Babcock likes veterans on his team, that's a pretty well known fact. If the guys on the PTO's get 1-2 year deals I can see them not getting traded at all. Instead we should be trying to flip players like Lupul, Bozak, Reimer at the deadline as they most likely aren't in any long term plans with the team.

I don't think you guys realize that PAP, Glencross, Setoguchi, Boyes and Grabner are still pretty damn good players and have a lot to offer. Players have down years all the time, and all the guys we signed to PTO's definitely deserved a contract from teams, but it's been a strange off season when it comes to signings.

Babcock isn't the GM. He's fully admitted there is pain to come and I fully expect the team to take a longer term approach from comments Dubas + Hunter have made about needing to acquire more picks.

Right now they are simply buying development time for our youngsters a lot of which will start cracking the roster at some point this year but definitely next.

Spaling, Matthias, Setoguchi, Grabner are all 27 so they potential have some good years left well all of Glencross, Parenteau, Boyes are all either 32 or 33 and on there last legs in the NHL.

Bozak + Lupul have negative value right now. We're probably looking at dealing them 16-17 or 17-18 season when they've got a bit less term.

 

[Menzinger]

They'll get one year deals - assuming they impress, but I'm confident those who are won't finish the season with the Leafs. Management set precedent last season about their desire to skip free agents for picks - if they impress management so much they want them for longer term, they can still be traded and then resigned once July 1st hits - just as they did with Winnik.

At this stage of the Leafs rebuild picks are the most valuable thing. Once the team stars to get better then you can focus more on supplementing the team with vets.

 

[Preisst*]

It might be prudent to not predetermine what we are going to do with our assets until we see who actually makes the team, play some games, see how the results are and then make decisions based on realities of how things play out.

 

[Swayze*]

It might be prudent to not predetermine what we are going to do with our assets until we see who actually makes the team, play some games, see how the results are and then make decisions based on realities of how things play out.

no kidding

 

[TheCLAM]

Been seeing people state this is every thread. I don't think you guys realize these guys are that Babcock most likely wanted on his team. This is a new era and Babcock likes veterans on his team, that's a pretty well known fact. If the guys on the PTO's get 1-2 year deals I can see them not getting traded at all. Instead we should be trying to flip players like Lupul, Bozak, Reimer at the deadline as they most likely aren't in any long term plans with the team.

I don't think you guys realize that PAP, Glencross, Setoguchi, Boyes and Grabner are still pretty damn good players and have a lot to offer. Players have down years all the time, and all the guys we signed to PTO's definitely deserved a contract from teams, but it's been a strange off season when it comes to signings.

The players that fit the mold you keep and the other ones you re-coup for picks. In the same breath your argument is flawed because you're under the assumption that we're going to re-sign all of these players.

Look at last years model as a prime example, we signed Winnik, Santorelli and had Franson on a 1 year deal. We determined that all three were expendable, and then this off-season we re-sign Winnik. It also promotes the idea that just because it's a hockey move to trade a guy on a 1 year deal, it doesn't close the door to re-signing in the off-season.

We capitalized with our financial power on a depthful free agent class. However, as we continue to build a team culture our staff will determine who stays and goes. The fact is that there is an abundance of players on 1 year deals that will be moved.

 

[LeafsNation75]

There is a major reason why guys like Matthias, Parenteau, Arcobello got 1 year contracts a long with Boyes, Glencross and Setoguchi possibly getting 1 year contracts if they sign despite being on a PTO. It's so they can either be traded if the Leafs feel they don't need to be re-signed and I'm sure they know that because they know the Leafs are a rebuilding team.

 

[Stephen]

They are all future 4th round picks.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think one of those pending UFA will lead to a 1st rounder for a contending team.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Been seeing people state this is every thread. I don't think you guys realize these guys are that Babcock most likely wanted on his team. This is a new era and Babcock likes veterans on his team, that's a pretty well known fact. If the guys on the PTO's get 1-2 year deals I can see them not getting traded at all. Instead we should be trying to flip players like Lupul, Bozak, Reimer at the deadline as they most likely aren't in any long term plans with the team.

I don't think you guys realize that PAP, Glencross, Setoguchi, Boyes and Grabner are still pretty damn good players and have a lot to offer. Players have down years all the time, and all the guys we signed to PTO's definitely deserved a contract from teams, but it's been a strange off season when it comes to signings.

and PAP, Glencross and company have a future with the team? They are going to be easier to trade than the Bozaks and Lupuls because they will be UFA, no long term contract for other teams to fit in.

 

[Lubo]

We have a better team than last year.

Some of you need to forget the concept that losing Phil Kessel has automatically pre-destined the Maple Leafs to finish in last place.

Mike Babcock is not here to babysit a lottery team for 3-5 years.

The players mentioned in this thread (of which 2-3 will likely make the squad) have more character and integrity than many on our team last season.

 

[LeafsNation75]

We have a better team than last year.

Some of you need to forget the concept that losing Phil Kessel has automatically pre-destined the Maple Leafs to finish in last place.

Mike Babcock is not here to babysit a lottery team for 3-5 years.

The players mentioned in this thread (of which 2-3 will likely make the squad) have more character and integrity than many on our team last season.

Even with Phil Kessel in the Leafs lineup last season they finished 27th overall standings last season.

Plus during the 2011-2012 season they finished 26th overall.

So unless they finish 30th, 29th, or 28th they can't do any worse without him.

Edit: I know during Kessel's first season in Toronto during the 2009-2010 season they finished 29th overall. However let's remember he missed the first month of the season because of his shoulder surgery. By the time he was ready the play the Leafs season was over because of their 0-7-1 start. So I give them a pass because of those circumstances not having Kessel from the start of the year.

 

[shelf]

We have a better team than last year.

Some of you need to forget the concept that losing Phil Kessel has automatically pre-destined the Maple Leafs to finish in last place.

Mike Babcock is not here to babysit a lottery team for 3-5 years.

The players mentioned in this thread (of which 2-3 will likely make the squad) have more character and integrity than many on our team last season.

I think this is the first year Ive ever had as a Leafs fan where I think that they wont make the playoffs. Every year I think things will be different and the Leafs will make the playoffs, but this team really is just bad. Even with Leafs bias on paper this team is bad.

 

[Pookie]

They'll get one year deals - assuming they impress, but I'm confident those who are won't finish the season with the Leafs. Management set precedent last season about their desire to skip free agents for picks - if they impress management so much they want them for longer term, they can still be traded and then resigned once July 1st hits - just as they did with Winnik.

At this stage of the Leafs rebuild picks are the most valuable thing. Once the team stars to get better then you can focus more on supplementing the team with vets.

At some point though, they will need guys like this. Young players will be held back in order not to burn a year on their contract status.

I would hope the earliest we see Marner is 2-3 years from now. Next years draft class would be 3-4 years away.

Shanahan's contract is up in 5. They won't be stockpiling picks forever. It's not feasible for this to be an all rookie (or near all rookie) team. At some point they will need guys like this. And if they have guys like this, and perhaps have knowledge of a potential guy willing to sign, I don't think shipping them out is a given.

As Shanahan said, the plan changes day to day.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

That's why we brought them here.

If they look good, we'll sign them, hopefully they continue to play well enough, and send them to playoff teams for picks at the deadlines.


These are guys that management has targeted as solid players that we're willing to give a chance on, but don't get the delusion that they are here to stay for multiple years.

I could see Glencross getting an extension MAYBE but the rest of them are gone

 

[Leafsman]

Do you know what happens to a team that constantly signs players then flips them for picks? Players stop signing there.

It is a fine strategy if it is not your top strategy. Players will know when they're being used as sole-commodities and it will not be a good reputation to build. Every thing I read here has some suggestion of signing and flipping.

Also the return you'd get for players nobody is interested in would not replace the value of FOUR roster spots for a sizable chunk of the season.

It would be leaps and bounds better for this team to use those spots to start building a core of players and allow them to build chemistry, bonds and a team atmosphere going forward.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Wanted enough for a PTO. Let's keep it in perspective here. If they were good enough for contracts they'd have had them already.

They are all future 4th round picks.

Agreed. Some of them might fetch even lower than 4th rounders.

 

[RLF]

Babcock isn't the GM. He's fully admitted there is pain to come and I fully expect the team to take a longer term approach from comments Dubas + Hunter have made about needing to acquire more picks.

Right now they are simply buying development time for our youngsters a lot of which will start cracking the roster at some point this year but definitely next.

Spaling, Matthias, Setoguchi, Grabner are all 27 so they potential have some good years left well all of Glencross, Parenteau, Boyes are all either 32 or 33 and on there last legs in the NHL.

Bozak + Lupul have negative value right now. We're probably looking at dealing them 16-17 or 17-18 season when they've got a bit less term.

Pretty much the way I look at it. Babcock has stated they are all on the same page, if the UFA signings were guys he really wanted for the future, they would have got more than 1 year deals to start with...like Winnik.

As for Bozak and Lupul, deadline with less term would be easier, but I do think one of them will be moved before next season. I have never understood that some (not saying the OP or anyone in particular) don't seem to grasp the concept that the best time to move a guy if you are just wanting quality prospects and picks back, is at the TDL on their last year of a contract. Unless there is some evidence he won't re-sign with the team that trades for him, it is the best time for a return where you don't have to take back another contract with term.

 

[RLF]

Do you know what happens to a team that constantly signs players then flips them for picks? Players stop signing there.

It is a fine strategy if it is not your top strategy. Players will know when they're being used as sole-commodities and it will not be a good reputation to build. Every thing I read here has some suggestion of signing and flipping.

Also the return you'd get for players nobody is interested in would not replace the value of FOUR roster spots for a sizable chunk of the season.

It would be leaps and bounds better for this team to use those spots to start building a core of players and allow them to build chemistry, bonds and a team atmosphere going forward.

Bolded. We are not talking about term players, we are talking about players that come here on 1 year deal knowing full well they may get moved at the TDL. Some are using us as much as we use them. They know coming here they have a chance to show they are worth a contract and might get moved to a contending team and win a Cup.
Term players would be different, yes.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Bolded. We are not talking about term players, we are talking about players that come here on 1 year deal knowing full well they may get moved at the TDL. Some are using us as much as we use them. They know coming here they have a chance to show they are worth a contract and might get moved to a contending team and win a Cup.
Term players would be different, yes.

Agreed. Solo year contracts say one thing to a player. There's no security in it, and I think both sides use it for what it is. Players get showcased and playing time, we pay them and get possible picks. also think players would often rather get traded to a contender and play post season hockey than finish last and watch.