GDT: Trade Deadline Center Part Two (All Flyers and NHL Trade Talk) (Deadline Is 3/3 At 3PM)

[kudymen]

It is a simple gain loss analysis and I am shocked YOU were not taught that in any school or that you just choose to ignore it.
One side paid to get rid of an asset, another one gained assets for said assets. The time value of those assets gained is irrelevant - of course the value is different in various time frames, but it remains positive. The idea is simple gain or loss. One side didnt do enough homework to make a net positive move, the other one did. A rebuilding franchise should want to make net positive moves which result in gains, not losses.

If you want to lecture people on market 101, this is negotiation and asset management 101.

 

[Nizzle]

What has happened during the last 80 pages or so?

 

[Beef Invictus]

NAK didn't win anything, he was just along for the ride, then let go, Toronto waived him.

Ghost isn't quite good, he got traded for a 2026 3rd, that's equivalent to what? A 2023 4th? 5th? Seeler value?

Vorobyev needed three years in the KHL to become a top six forward there, and he still isn't as good in the KHL as Lehtera after the Flyers released him.

Maybe you should learn how to do homework. Didn't they teach you that in school?

Pretending the things that prove you wrong don't prove you wrong is very delusional. You truly don't have to debase yourself by defending every single aspect of Flyers management.

 

[Nizzle]

Oh and here’s my dog showing who’s the boss

 

[TheKingPin]

Hextall had 8 1st rd picks and 6th 2nd rd picks over 5 years - so where's our championship team?
And before you blame Chuckie, note that none of those picks who are gone have done anything for another team.

Carolina fired Peters, hired Brind'Amour and hasn't drafted in the top 20 since then.

Yes, a good GM could turn a number of Flyers into solid draft picks, but just amassing a bunch of picks won't turn you into a good team. You need a GM who knows how to build a team, not just collect draft picks.

So you’re telling me a team that has 3 x 1sts and 6 x 2nds vs a team with 1 x 1sts and 0 x 2nds, has no advantage?

Also timing. The writing was clearly spelled on the wall with all of the injuries and issues. This year was not going to be competitive. It was also known how great this draft is. Yet we still have one first and no second. That’s just horrendous.

 

[GKJ]

Johnson has been on wing, and he might be a wing long term. Sillinger — who I’ve never liked — shouldn’t affect anything. He might be in the AHL next year after this horrid season. He’s still on his ELC. Also, not sold on him as a center.

Jenner is their captain. He’s also a useful C/W; he’s not being traded for Hayes. I don’t think they’d cry over moving Roslovic, given he’s a UFA after next season. But even if they won a lottery pick, all 3 of those guys can play wing, and I don’t think their roster has their centers written in stone. Lotto pick, Jenner, Hayes. Any of the 3 can play wing with Roslovic. Their biggest logjam is actually at RD.

That would be a stupid amount a wingers they have on their NHL roster.

 

[deadhead]

It is a simple gain loss analysis and I am shocked YOU were not taught that in any school or that you just choose to ignore it.
One side paid to get rid of an asset, another one gained assets for said assets. The time value of those assets gained is irrelevant - of course the value is different in various time frames, but it remains positive. The idea is simple gain or loss. One side didnt do enough homework to make a net positive move, the other one did. A rebuilding franchise should want to make net positive moves which result in gains, not losses.

If you want to lecture people on market 101, this is negotiation and asset management 101.

It's not simple, there's the time value of money, question is to who?

That is, the GM acquiring may have a higher discount rate than the GM selling, depending on their situation with their team. If a GM feels pressure to win now, a pick three years from now has little value to him b/c someone else will be using it. Conversely, a GM hired to oversee a rebuild knows he has a 4-5 year window to deliver, so he's happy to collect any asset for his future war chest.

Fletcher didn't handle this well, but a 2026 3rd is not equivalent to a 2023 3rd.

1st rd picks are a little different, because you're not just talking about discounting, you're also talking about draft position, so last year you might not have wanted Colorado's 1st if you thought they'd end up in the SC Finals. You might gamble on 2023 or 2024, hoping they end up with a pick in the low 20s.

 

[kudymen]

are you telling me that time value of getting an asset may not always be net positive outcome, depending on the timeframe length? Seriously? He didn’t gain. He lost. In the present and in the future. In all timeframes.
You’re bending the most fundamental economics only to shit on a player.

Fletcher didn't handle this well, but a 2026 3rd is not equivalent to a 2023 3rd.

And no one argues this. No one. Not a single person. No one.

 

[deadhead]

So you’re telling me a team that has 3 x 1sts and 6 x 2nds vs a team with 1 x 1sts and 0 x 2nds, has no advantage?

Also timing. The writing was clearly spelled on the wall with all of the injuries and issues. This year was not going to be competitive. It was also known how great this draft is. Yet we still have one first and no second. That’s just horrendous.

No, my point was stripping your roster to add all those picks is no guarantee of success.

People sometimes get overexcited about draft picks, after watching Hextall collect a bunch of picks and botch a rebuild, you need a GM who can do more than conduct a fire sale. You need someone who knows how to extract value.

It's what you do with your war chest of assets that matter, not building a war chest.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, my point was stripping your roster to add all those picks is no guarantee of success.

People sometimes get overexcited about draft picks, after watching Hextall collect a bunch of picks and botch a rebuild, you need a GM who can do more than conduct a fire sale. You need someone who knows how to extract value.

It's what you do with your war chest of assets that matter, not building a war chest.

It's a better guarantee of success than letting the Clarke Group manage the team.

This team is utterly broken at every level. Once Clarke croaks and every slob he's ever met can be fired, everyone will have to be traded anyway. They have to completely start over.

The Fletcher Era is so bad that recovery will be worse than Expansion

 

[deadhead]

It's a better guarantee of success than letting the Clarke Group manage the team.

This team is utterly broken at every level. Once Clarke croaks and every slob he's ever met can be fired, everyone will have to be traded anyway. They have to completely start over.

Who's arguing that?

The point was simply obsessing on draft picks misses the real point, is you need a GM who understands and can exploit all aspects of team building.

Garnering draft picks when you're rebuilding is the easiest part of the job, you sell players and get picks.
Heck, even Fletcher could do that, just whip out his trusty App, . . .

Drafting, trading, scouring the waiver wire, using the Cap effectively, finding players who fit together (some teams are less than the sum of their parts).

That's what separates the men from the boys.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who's arguing that?

The point was simply obsessing on draft picks misses the real point, is you need a GM who understands and can exploit all aspects of team building.

Garnering draft picks when you're rebuilding is the easiest part of the job, you sell players and get picks.
Heck, even Fletcher could do that, just whip out his trusty App, . . .

Drafting, trading, scouring the waiver wire, using the Cap effectively, finding players who fit together (some teams are less than the sum of their parts).

That's what separates the men from the boys.

You're arguing against it. You think they're only 3 years away. That's bullshit.

You probably need to set a fifteen year timer from Clarke's death before we can hope for contention.

 

[TheKingPin]

No, my point was stripping your roster to add all those picks is no guarantee of success.

People sometimes get overexcited about draft picks, after watching Hextall collect a bunch of picks and botch a rebuild, you need a GM who can do more than conduct a fire sale. You need someone who knows how to extract value.

It's what you do with your war chest of assets that matter, not building a war chest.

The hawks are likely to get a top 3 pick this year and will get a star player. Even the Avs were a top 3 pick before they were bumped and got Makar. It’s no different than putting your self in the best place for success with anything in life. Of course, nothing in life is guaranteed.

Then you have more picks which allow you to get more players that are good. That’s a good thing no matter what you think.

Drafting and developing is a must as well, but it doesn’t diminish the importance of having high picks at all.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Someone is going to have to pick me up off the floor from laughing about someone m bringing up that a 2026 pick isn’t worth the same as a 2023 one after spending the last year saying the Giroux return was the “standard” return.

 

[deadhead]

Most of those 1st rd picks teams picked up in trades will be in the 20s.

The high picks you get by finishing with a bad record, but except for a handful of franchise players, top players tend to be distributed between 6-15 fairly evenly. Odds are better in the top 5, but JVR isn't better than a lot of players taken in the next tier and Patrick was a disaster (so was Gagner, etc.).

So with good drafting, you can pick up core players by finishing in that range for a few years.
The other picks are more depth and luck, maybe you'll hit on a Point or Pastrnak, more likely a TK or Frost.

I don't think a rebuild with the right GM should take more than five years.

The first two years you trade a half dozen veterans, pick up 3-4 1st rd picks, a half dozen 2nd and 3rd rd picks, some prospects and a lot of cap room.

That gives you the war chest to make additional moves, taking on salary for assets, sweetening deals, etc.

Then when you get to years 4 & 5, and you've build up organizational depth, you look for the "consolidation" moves where you package picks and prospects for an elite young player.

Teams that need a lot longer tend to be unable to add value outside the draft, so they need to draft again and again to build up critical mass.

 

[bennysflyers16]

You're arguing against it. You think they're only 3 years away. That's bullshit.

You probably need to set a fifteen year timer from Clarke's death before we can hope for contention.

Beef your a real moron.

Wait , who’s calling you a moron ??

Oh ya , me.