Trade and Free Agency Discussion Thread - Don't Expect More Augmenting

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Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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So the new(ish) Leaf report is Mirtle and Siegal talking about Joe Thornton. I recommend it to anyone who has a commute or free time to listen to. Very good episode. Here are the highlights.

- Mirtle says Lebrun knows Thornton very well and Lebrun says Thornton is going to play forever, whether it be in the NHL or over in Switzerland with Davos. He's of a similar vein of Jagr, where they keep themselves in insane shape and have a passion for the game. Point being, is this may not just be a 1 and done for Thornton and the Leafs. That if things go well, he could come back next year.

- Mirtle doesn't think Thornton is coming in with an ego or anything. He knows he'll spend some games on the fourth line, and even some games not in the lineup. Both Mirtle and Siegal seem to agree he will be somewhere in the top 9 to start.

- Mirtle and Siegal both think Thornton could be a big addition to the powerplay. Siegal seems to think that they might do two balanced PP's again, versus one stacked one. Mirtle seems to think that makes sense. They seem to think Thornton-Matthews-Tavares-TBD-Rielly on one, and then Marner-Nylander-TBD-TBD-TBD on the other.

- Mirtle says the Leafs are rounding out their roster much like Dallas did last season, and hoping for similar success. Mirtle says the Leafs have the top end talent, and unfortunately Leaf fans have seen past GM's (Burke/Nonis) try and add the Simmonds/Bogosian types without that high end talent to support them.

- Mirtle also points out, that the Leafs are getting their supporting cast to come in on the cheap. Thornton and Spezza taking 700K each. Bogosian coming for 1M. Simmonds turning down less from elsewhere (MTL) to come here. Says previously, the Leafs had to overpay for it. (Clarkson, Martin).

- Mirtle says he's not sure how anyone can dislike this signing, unless they are trying to be contrarian, or have a dislike for the Leafs team, or for the General Manager, or Thornton himself. Mirtle says the worst case scenario is Thornton plays horribly, and Dubas either loans him back to Davos, or they mutually terminate the agreement, or Dubas/Keefe have to have the discussion that Thornton isn't going to be a regular anymore.

- Mirtle says he doesn't think Andersen is getting traded. He thinks other teams were coming at the Leafs asking if he was available. Mirtle says after the playoffs, the Leafs thought about "a lot of things" and that was one of the things they thought of and it didn't happen for one reason or another. (Wonders if it's because Lehner didn't get to free agency, or maybe they liked Kuemper, but didn't like Arizona's asking price).

- Mirtle says he doesn't think they will add a top 4 D at all. Dubas has said this is the group they will go in with, and it makes sense. Siegal says he thinks it's a medium-sized risk that they are trusting Andersen again. Siegal says when you look at things practically, what could you have done? Mirtle says he doesn't think Corey Crawford was doing backflips to go to New Jersey, so maybe you could've signed him. Siegal says he'd be more comfortable with Crawford than Andersen, but Crawford is also mid-30's. Mirtle points out that Crawford's numbers and analytics are really solid, and he wasn't the problem in Chicago.

- Mirtle says if Andersen struggles again, they could look for a mid-season replacement from a team that has fallen out of the playoffs.

- Mirtle says internally, the Leafs think Jack Campbell can be something, and can challenge Freddy. They've also added Dell. So the Leafs have options. Siegal says that maybe it's as simple as if Campbell plays well and Freddy doesn't, Campbell plays more. Mirtle says the intention to start is to be a tandem and see how they play rather than just anointing Freddy.

- Mirtle and Siegal agree that the Leafs 7 D will be who they go into the season with. Dermott or Holl won't be moved.

Thanks for all of the work.

Regarding the PP, you'd think that Spezza, Mikheyev, Robertson, Simmonds, Hyman as forwards will be given opportunity, depending on who is in the lineup. I can see Hyman/Simmonds being net presence guys.

Brodie hasn't really been a PP guy, but then neither is Dermott Muzzin, Bogo nor Holl. So... that's Lehtonen time really.... You'd have to expect him to start on PP2 from the beginning of the season, which isn't terrible, as he does have a rocket of a shot.
 

Sypher04

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Interesting notes from Siegel and Mirtle. Thanks. It's funny I was actually just thinking the other day that I'm not convinced this is necessarily Thornton's last year. I guess we will see
 

Sypher04

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How long has it been since we have had a defense this good on paper?

Rielly is somewhere between #1/2
Brodie is a #2/3
Muzzin is a #2/3
We have currently a bit of a hole at #4 - hopefully someone steps up
And then we have probably 4-5 guys who are legit NHL D who can slot in bottom pair, with probably at least half of them having potential to be more.

And unlike some previous iterations there is actually some style balance between the personnel
 

TML Dynasty

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May 2, 2016
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Anderson is a good PK guy, averaged almost 2 minutes per game, when he did play with NJ, with good success. Boyd I can't see being more than depth callup, or more likely a solid addition to the Marlies.

Vesey has played on the PK, for both Buffalo and NYR.

Marner played PK well for us.

So, Kerfoot, Marner, Engvall, Hyman, Mikheyev, Anderson and Vesey can PK.

Edited to add Kerfoot thanks to @Sypher04
Thanks!! I hope we keep Marner off the PK this year though....that PP and big 5v5 numbers has him out there a lot
 

ToneDog

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Mirtle says if Andersen struggles again, they could look for a mid-season replacement from a team that has fallen out of the playoffs.

Found this interesting. The way I see it if Freddy struggles, we will be one of those teams that has fallen out of the playoffs.
 

Sypher04

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Jan 20, 2011
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Mirtle says if Andersen struggles again, they could look for a mid-season replacement from a team that has fallen out of the playoffs.

Found this interesting. The way I see it if Freddy struggles, we will be one of those teams that has fallen out of the playoffs.

I don't necessarily agree. Possible, but Freddy struggled last year and we were still right in it.
 
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Subway Schenn

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Mirtle says internally, the Leafs think Jack Campbell can be something, and can challenge Freddy. They've also added Dell. So the Leafs have options. Siegal says that maybe it's as simple as if Campbell plays well and Freddy doesn't, Campbell plays more. Mirtle says the intention to start is to be a tandem and see how they play rather than just anointing Freddy.

Great to hear! Everything I've seen from Jack points to him having a strong chance of breaking out with a larger workload. Could be the perfect Andersen replacement for 2M less.
 

Captain34

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Sep 18, 2019
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Mirtle says if Andersen struggles again, they could look for a mid-season replacement from a team that has fallen out of the playoffs.

Found this interesting. The way I see it if Freddy struggles, we will be one of those teams that has fallen out of the playoffs.

I truly believe that Andersen will have a rebound year. Not only is he entering his contract year but last year was an exception, not the norm when looking at his career numbers as a whole. Frankly, the whole team was disjointed from the very beginning, Andersen included. A better defensive structure and better defencemen (Ceci not playing 20+ minutes alongside Reilly) should help tremendously.
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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How long has it been since we have had a defense this good on paper?

Rielly is somewhere between #1/2
Brodie is a #2/3
Muzzin is a #2/3
We have currently a bit of a hole at #4 - hopefully someone steps up
And then we have probably 4-5 guys who are legit NHL D who can slot in bottom pair, with probably at least half of them having potential to be more.

And unlike some previous iterations there is actually some style balance between the personnel

Last year :sarcasm:
 
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hamzarocks

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Andersen needs a redemption year. Idk if we bring him backordered not and I've never really liked the guy much but I really want him to shut everyone up. Bounce back to his .917-.918 reg season standards,

Then come into the playoffs and outplay the opposing teams goalie and win a series atleast. He in his 5 years despite a lot of playoff struggles has easily cemented himself as a top 7 leaf goalie ever. If we bring him back and he figures things out he could end up being the GOAT leaf goalie. It all depends on how he does next year. If he goes to ECF I'd bring him back on a 3 year 6 Million deal. 1 Million increase for him. If he struggles I move on and look at a new goalie.
 

Morgs

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Jul 12, 2015
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Mirtle says if Andersen struggles again, they could look for a mid-season replacement from a team that has fallen out of the playoffs.

Found this interesting. The way I see it if Freddy struggles, we will be one of those teams that has fallen out of the playoffs.

Meh. He struggled last season and we still were in a spot and I expect our team to be even better this season.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98

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Mirtle says if Andersen struggles again, they could look for a mid-season replacement from a team that has fallen out of the playoffs.

Found this interesting. The way I see it if Freddy struggles, we will be one of those teams that has fallen out of the playoffs.
I mean if he struggles as badly as he did last year you might as well just bench him and roll with a Dell/Campbell tandem. Hopefully 1 of the 3 guys can at least be a league average goalie.
 
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Dreakmur

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How long has it been since we have had a defense this good on paper?

Rielly is somewhere between #1/2
Brodie is a #2/3
Muzzin is a #2/3

I went roster to roster and picked out all the defensemen that I would take ahead of Rielly, and there were 19. He's easily a #1 defenseman, but he's not a particularly good one.

I had 51 ahead of Brodie, and 47 ahead of Muzzin, making them both mid- to low-end #2s.
 

Kurtz

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I think Simmonds will be our netfront guy on the 1st PP. He's notorious for his tipping skills. Then Vesey or Zach can play that role on the 2nd unit.
 

Fogelhund

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I think Simmonds will be our netfront guy on the 1st PP. He's notorious for his tipping skills. Then Vesey or Zach can play that role on the 2nd unit.

Man, was JvR ever money at tipping in front of the net, and a great net presence. I mean, at the $7 mil the Flyers are paying him, they can have him, and he seems to be declining now, but it would be great to have a prime JvR net presence.
 

mydnyte

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I think Simmonds will be our netfront guy on the 1st PP. He's notorious for his tipping skills. Then Vesey or Zach can play that role on the 2nd unit.
cant see that happening, we have too may better options for #1pp, on #2 for sure though.
#1 PP
Likely have:
Mathews
Tavares
Nylander
Marner/Thronton
Rielly

#2PP
Likely have:
Marner/Thronton
Spezza
Simmonds
Vesey/Kerfoot/Soup
Lehtonen
 

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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cant see that happening, we have too may better options for #1pp, on #2 for sure though.
#1 PP
Likely have:
Mathews
Tavares
Nylander
Marner/Thronton
Rielly

#2PP
Likely have:
Marner/Thronton
Spezza
Simmonds
Vesey/Kerfoot/Soup
Lehtonen

I'm willing to bet Wayne will be our net-front guy on the #1 PP. Keep in mind that it's not just about offensive talent - you need guys to play certain roles on the PP - and Wayne is the best guy we have at bringing the net-front presence (he's done it his whole career and has been very effective in the role).

I anticipate PP1 will have Wayne in front, Matthews and JT sniping from the circles and Mitch up top. Pp2 will have Nylander and Spezza sniping from the circles, Joe up top and either Hyman or Vesey (probably Vesey) in front. Kerfoot will sub-in when Joe/Spezza are out.
 

mydnyte

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Sep 8, 2004
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I'm willing to bet Wayne will be our net-front guy on the #1 PP. Keep in mind that it's not just about offensive talent - you need guys to play certain roles on the PP - and Wayne is the best guy we have at bringing the net-front presence (he's done it his whole career and has been very effective in the role).

I anticipate PP1 will have Wayne in front, Matthews and JT sniping from the circles and Mitch up top. Pp2 will have Nylander and Spezza sniping from the circles, Joe up top and either Hyman or Vesey (probably Vesey) in front. Kerfoot will sub-in when Joe/Spezza are out.
i dont doubt they will try it, i just dont think its likely he's on the top PP ...the net spot is Nylander's and/or Tavares's to lose. (Nylander scored the majority of his goals from the slot last season, so, i'd think he has first crack at it, unless they decide to balance the PP's more, which i dont think they should. the Leafs PP should be scary. i could even see then try Mathews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander and Thronton (on the point) and see how that goes. ...i could also see them drop Nylander down and have Thornton and Marner feeding Mathews and Tavares, and keeping Rielly on D for safety reasons.
so many options, it will be fun to watch. (or crazy frustrating)
 
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