Post-Game Talk: Toronto vs Canadiens pre-season game opener!

[Drunk World Order]

People D Men take time to develop. I watched the game and Tinordi was not bad. He played a simple game and posistioned himself well. I did not see any glaring mistakes and he played a couple of guys excellent one on one. We know he can hit and fight if he needs too. Maybe this is what the coaches are telling him to do is play a simple stay at home game. Yes he lost a fight last year no need to keep poking him. He's resilient and will bounce back give the guy some credit for being a team player and holding players accountable. If he goes on waivers and sent down guaranteed he gets claimed.

 

[Runner77]

Tinordi's ship seems to have sailed but it's mostly due to our depth. I just don't see how he can have a chance to play here unless a couple of Ds get injured.
PK-Markov-Petry-Beaulieu-Emelin-Gilbert-Pateryn. He's 8th when he should be 5-6th right now, maybe 7th at the most.
He needs NHL ice time at this point, I don't think he's going to learn much more in the AHL.

While I understand he'll have to be on someone's NHL roster if the Habs try to demote him, there has to be a team who still believes in him and would claim him to be their 7th or 8th D. I'm not convinced he's going to improve under Therrien, either. Bergevin will likely make a move.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

My impressions of last night's game;


The ones who made an impression:

McCarron: Wow! Sure made an impression. Very physical, quick on loose pucks, and, most of all, always, ALWAYS well placed without the puck. I think that's what has left me the most impressed with him. I think there's no doubt about the fact he's going to be an NHLer at some point. His game is already NHL-level in several aspects. I think he just has to keep taming his huge stick of his and gain more puck skills, and we have a player.

Bozon: Do not underestimate Tim Bozon. Was implicated in front of the net and in dirty areas, and his speed is quite good. In fact, it's better than what I expected, really. He has a rocket of a shot, and I think he has ingredients needed to make himself an NHLer in some role at some point in his career.

Pateryn: Rock solid in his own end, has a rocket of a slapper, nothing we didn't know actually. But he kept on where he left last season. Impressive player with tons of qualities and looks mature enough to have an NHL role this season.

Price: Was Price. Nothing more to say.

Kassian: I'm not going to go ahead and say he was giving his 110% and that he was a standout yesterday, but what he brings on the table, is something this team desperately needed. He's strong as hell along the boards, goes to the net and in the blue paint on the PP, and is a disturbed mind, which IMO is a good thing. Very talkative and will try and get other players off their games between whistles. Komarov was way more quiet after Kassian gave him the crazy eyes. Therrien has to put him on an offensive role. I think he and Desharnais could do wonders if paired with a guy like DSP.

Carr: Tons of hustle, willingess to compete, and plenty of intensity both with and without the puck. Stays close to the action and is a really clever player on the breakout. Loved what I saw yesterday.

Now, those who made an impression, but not for the good things:

Tinordi: Man. This guy just isn't a good hockey player. Doesn't understand his strengths at all. Carries the puck way too much, which he can get away with in preseason games, but as for the big games, it's going to come back and bite him in the ass. Stupid passing, takes too long to make a decision, gets beaten often on the outside, and apparently has no longer any desire to get implicated physically. Sad, really.

Barberio: Displayed good qualities, especially on the offensive side of the game, but he has a knack to pile up the stupid mistakes once he makes one. Marc-André Bergeron-esque. Would rather him to Tinordi, simply because he gives us another "weapon" on a potential PP.

Plekanec: You can't judge veterans on preseason games, and that's a good thing. Because Plekanec beat levels of pansy-ness yesterday.

Andrighetto: I love the player, it's well documented. He displayed good things yesterday in board battles, but I expected better puck control from him, and in front of the net. Can do better, I'm convinced.

De La Rose: A lot of people are high on the guy. I personally think he lacks flavour. If you're not going to be offensive, be physical. I expected him to play with more authority yesterday, but all he did was try to knock up some Leafs player on his backcheck in the 1st period. I don't know. I don't see him as a must on the NHL roster.

Otherwise, a couple of things I noticed is Thomas' intensity. I don't like the kind of player he is, I don't want him on my team, but man I can't bring myself to hate the guy. No matter where he ends up, I wish him the best. DSP is quite a bit quicker than he was last season, and he played quite good. Unfortunately, can't peg him in the "good" category because of reasons you know well. Petry and Emelin still form a very good duo. Minus an error from Petry, both were outstanding yesterday.

Can't judge is right. Completely meaningless game for him. Absolutely no reason to risk anything. Don't even know why he was on your list really

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Can't judge is right. Completely meaningless game for him. Absolutely no reason to risk anything. Don't even know why he was on your list really

Because while I'm not going to hold grudge on him or call him a washed-up bum because if yesterday, the way he approached loose pucks and board battles was pathetic. And some people wanted him as captain...

You know, when you're given letters, you're supposed to lead by example at some point. Even if it's not eating the boards, you try to at least make it look like you want the puck. I told to myself yesterday not to judge/evaluate/pay attention to veterans alone. But his pansyness along the boards was so noticable I couldn't miss it.

Sorry if I hurt your feeling expressing what I saw in a player that is supposed to be a role model for our youth. In my opinion, he was standing out in a bad way. Not gonna say we should trade him for that, but that was disappointing.

 

[Fozz]

Seems like vastly different opinions of Tinordi. Wish I could see a replay and view it for myself. I know Therrien didn't seem impressed/unimpressed, so maybe the truth lies in the middle.

I'm with MonctonScout in his eval of Tinordi. He played a fine game last night. He covers tons of space out there and made the right play most of the time. He did have that one give away and fought the puck a couple of times... Nothing to get all worked up about. It's pre-season after all. He was definitely better than Barbario.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

I'm with MonctonScout in his eval of Tinordi. He played a fine game last night. He covers tons of space out there and made the right play most of the time. He did have that one give away and fought the puck a couple of times... Nothing to get all worked up about. It's pre-season after all. He was definitely better than Barbario.

The point with Tinordi is; what does he bring to the table that makes him a desirable presence on the backend. Barberio had a couple of good shots, despite an overall bad performance IMO. Still, what did Tinordi do?

He just doesn't play to his strengths. He should look at Pateryn instead of trying to carry the puck into the neutral zone. What do you think will happen if he does that in the NHL on a regular basis? He'll get poke-checked, and he's so slow in his pivots that it's going to give the other team 2 on 1's and scoring chances.

 

[hototogisu]

I'm with MonctonScout in his eval of Tinordi. He played a fine game last night. He covers tons of space out there and made the right play most of the time. He did have that one give away and fought the puck a couple of times... Nothing to get all worked up about. It's pre-season after all. He was definitely better than Barbario.

Not sure why you'd say that. "It's just preseason, nothing to get worked about" works fine as an excuse for Plekanec and Gallagher. Not for Tinordi. This is exactly when he should be playing his best. If last night was his best, he's making Bergevin and Therrien's decision for them and not in the good way.

 

[Soltantgris]

I'm with MonctonScout in his eval of Tinordi. He played a fine game last night. He covers tons of space out there and made the right play most of the time. He did have that one give away and fought the puck a couple of times... Nothing to get all worked up about. It's pre-season after all. He was definitely better than Barbario.

Better than Barbario ? I consider Tinordi was pretty bad with the puck - slow to select a play and execute it. And he was not facing NHL caliber... Was facing team C of an already C team. Would be executed against any NHLers. I may be wrong - but to me it's pretty clear he is not NHL stuff.

 

[Monctonscout]

Fucale won't ever be a number 1 goalie, McCarron could make the NHL this year, Carr seems to have good upside, DLR plays a man's game, DSP is solid in a 4th line role, Emelin still has 0 hockey IQ but is as physical as ever, Petry will be an offensive threat.

Fucale is 20. You can't write off a talented goalie at 20, that's ridiculous. He has all the tools to be a #1 goalie in the NHL, obviously that's not today, but how many 20 year olds the last 20 years are NHL starters? He progressing as he should.

I find people here start to panic after 2 years a guy was drafted, if the guy isn't an NHL star he'll be a bust. Most NHL pick, other than top 10-15 overall guys, require 3-5 years of seasoning, defensemen and goalies are at the high end of that.

Was Lefebvre the coach when Subban, Pacioretty and Gallagher were with the Bulldogs?

He wasn't, but he's done a solid job with the kids that have come up. Since MB took over, the player development in the AHL and NHL has been solid, we went from having no NHL ready AHL prospects 4 years ago to having some at every position. A few guys will start AHL that could crack a lot of NHL rosters(Hudon Andrighetto McCarron etc).

If you judge Lefenvre on wins and losses it looks bad, but he's there to develop kids, not ride 26-27 year olds like a lot of AHL teams do.

Tinordi just seems to take too long to settle the puck on his stick, then too long again to make a decision with it. He is just not 'crisp' with the puck, and in today's game that is a very important skill needed to diffuse the opposing team's forecheck.

I thought our best player tonight was Petry.

He definitely isn't an elite puck mover, but he makes the safe play 19 times out of 20, and that's the strength of his game. I compare him to Komisarek and he is miles ahead in terms of puckhandling at the same age. Ideally he should be playing with a puck mover, the Habs have mostly those guys on the roster anyways.

My impressions of last night's game;


The ones who made an impression:

McCarron: Wow! Sure made an impression. Very physical, quick on loose pucks, and, most of all, always, ALWAYS well placed without the puck. I think that's what has left me the most impressed with him. I think there's no doubt about the fact he's going to be an NHLer at some point. His game is already NHL-level in several aspects. I think he just has to keep taming his huge stick of his and gain more puck skills, and we have a player.

Bozon: Do not underestimate Tim Bozon. Was implicated in front of the net and in dirty areas, and his speed is quite good. In fact, it's better than what I expected, really. He has a rocket of a shot, and I think he has ingredients needed to make himself an NHLer in some role at some point in his career.

Pateryn: Rock solid in his own end, has a rocket of a slapper, nothing we didn't know actually. But he kept on where he left last season. Impressive player with tons of qualities and looks mature enough to have an NHL role this season.

Price: Was Price. Nothing more to say.

Kassian: I'm not going to go ahead and say he was giving his 110% and that he was a standout yesterday, but what he brings on the table, is something this team desperately needed. He's strong as hell along the boards, goes to the net and in the blue paint on the PP, and is a disturbed mind, which IMO is a good thing. Very talkative and will try and get other players off their games between whistles. Komarov was way more quiet after Kassian gave him the crazy eyes. Therrien has to put him on an offensive role. I think he and Desharnais could do wonders if paired with a guy like DSP.

Carr: Tons of hustle, willingess to compete, and plenty of intensity both with and without the puck. Stays close to the action and is a really clever player on the breakout. Loved what I saw yesterday.

Now, those who made an impression, but not for the good things:

Tinordi: Man. This guy just isn't a good hockey player. Doesn't understand his strengths at all. Carries the puck way too much, which he can get away with in preseason games, but as for the big games, it's going to come back and bite him in the ass. Stupid passing, takes too long to make a decision, gets beaten often on the outside, and apparently has no longer any desire to get implicated physically. Sad, really.

Barberio: Displayed good qualities, especially on the offensive side of the game, but he has a knack to pile up the stupid mistakes once he makes one. Marc-André Bergeron-esque. Would rather him to Tinordi, simply because he gives us another "weapon" on a potential PP.

Plekanec: You can't judge veterans on preseason games, and that's a good thing. Because Plekanec beat levels of pansy-ness yesterday.

Andrighetto: I love the player, it's well documented. He displayed good things yesterday in board battles, but I expected better puck control from him, and in front of the net. Can do better, I'm convinced.

De La Rose: A lot of people are high on the guy. I personally think he lacks flavour. If you're not going to be offensive, be physical. I expected him to play with more authority yesterday, but all he did was try to knock up some Leafs player on his backcheck in the 1st period. I don't know. I don't see him as a must on the NHL roster.

Otherwise, a couple of things I noticed is Thomas' intensity. I don't like the kind of player he is, I don't want him on my team, but man I can't bring myself to hate the guy. No matter where he ends up, I wish him the best. DSP is quite a bit quicker than he was last season, and he played quite good. Unfortunately, can't peg him in the "good" category because of reasons you know well. Petry and Emelin still form a very good duo. Minus an error from Petry, both were outstanding yesterday.

I have to wonder what the heck you were watching when Tinordi was out there. He was a force in the physical game, kept guys to the outside and played mistake free.

How can you say Pateryn was rock solid and Tinordi sucked? that makes no sense, they played similar and Tinordi had a couple of big hits. Tinordi is a younger Pateryn with more upside, would be dumb to give up on him.

As I stated above, I think him and Pateryn are too similar and shouldn't play together. Have each of them with a PMD.

People D Men take time to develop. I watched the game and Tinordi was not bad. He played a simple game and posistioned himself well. I did not see any glaring mistakes and he played a couple of guys excellent one on one. We know he can hit and fight if he needs too. Maybe this is what the coaches are telling him to do is play a simple stay at home game. Yes he lost a fight last year no need to keep poking him. He's resilient and will bounce back give the guy some credit for being a team player and holding players accountable. If he goes on waivers and sent down guaranteed he gets claimed.

Everybody who has fought regularly in the NHL has lost fights. Those guys don't go undefeated. Scott and Boogaard both lost fights and they are/were monsters.

I agree on your assessment in terms of his play.

 

[GREMLIN]

I don't believe in Therrien to get somebody's confidence going again. Once you go down....you don't come back up. To know the real potential of Tinordi, he will have to leave. But this freakin management better not let him go for nothing.

Well were definitely not negociating in a position of strength, were back against the wall with Tinner and I dont see why GMs would overpay when they know we cant really afford him taking a roster spot.

One thing is for sure MB is a hard worker on the phones and if some GMs see any value in him he'll make the most out of it but I dont see a bidding war ensuing for him, his value is probably somewhere between Finn and Gormley.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Fucale is 20. You can't write off a talented goalie at 20, that's ridiculous. He has all the tools to be a #1 goalie in the NHL, obviously that's not today, but how many 20 year olds the last 20 years are NHL starters? He progressing as he should.

I find people here start to panic after 2 years a guy was drafted, if the guy isn't an NHL star he'll be a bust. Most NHL pick, other than top 10-15 overall guys, require 3-5 years of seasoning, defensemen and goalies are at the high end of that.



He wasn't, but he's done a solid job with the kids that have come up. Since MB took over, the player development in the AHL and NHL has been solid, we went from having no NHL ready AHL prospects 4 years ago to having some at every position. A few guys will start AHL that could crack a lot of NHL rosters(Hudon Andrighetto McCarron etc).

If you judge Lefenvre on wins and losses it looks bad, but he's there to develop kids, not ride 26-27 year olds like a lot of AHL teams do.



He definitely isn't an elite puck mover, but he makes the safe play 19 times out of 20, and that's the strength of his game. I compare him to Komisarek and he is miles ahead in terms of puckhandling at the same age. Ideally he should be playing with a puck mover, the Habs have mostly those guys on the roster anyways.





I have to wonder what the heck you were watching when Tinordi was out there. He was a force in the physical game, kept guys to the outside and played mistake free.

How can you say Pateryn was rock solid and Tinordi sucked? that makes no sense, they played similar and Tinordi had a couple of big hits. Tinordi is a younger Pateryn with more upside, would be dumb to give up on him.

As I stated above, I think him and Pateryn are too similar and shouldn't play together. Have each of them with a PMD.




Everybody who has fought regularly in the NHL has lost fights. Those guys don't go undefeated. Scott and Boogaard both lost fights and they are/were monsters.

I agree on your assessment in terms of his play.

Tinordi? A physical force yesterday? Yeah right... I'll go with my opinion, and the one of pretty much everyone by the way...

 

[Alex514]

Tinordi seemed to be only slightly better in his dicisions with the puck last night but really not by much! He still looked as if he was overthinking it out there and even a fraction of a second can make a diffrence. He looked out of position on a few plays as well. Im sure he is stressed out as he might be realizing that this may be his last crack at the team.

By not wanting to commit mistakes, it actually leads him to make some. What he needs to do is stop thinking too much on the ice. The fact of the matter is that, no matter what happens this kid is not going back down to the AHL and he will be making NHL money either way, regardless if its with the Habs or not. So just go out there and play instinctvely.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Tinordi was better last night..he still made a few errors but nothing too glaring. Defencemen are not always developed at 23...an that's certainly the case with Tinordi. For him it is more mental than anything as his mobility/quickness looks improved..he has to get his confidence back. Let's not forget that he suffered a scary injury last year.

 

[Habs]

So Therrien still isn't smart enough to use his kids in this pre season skate? Vets in the OT? What a tool.

 

[GREMLIN]

Tinordi was better last night..he still made a few errors but nothing too glaring. Defencemen are not always developed at 23...an that's certainly the case with Tinordi. For him it is more mental than anything as his mobility/quickness looks improved..he has to get his confidence back. Let's not forget that he suffered a scary injury last year.

What about his play with the puck Grant? What do you make of it? His mobility/quickness has looked OK for a while now and thats not the problem IMO.

I will add this, I think the fact that preseason games are often "all over the place hockey" might hurt him a little bit, he will never ne créative with the puck thats obvious but in the regular season there is a lot more structure and a dman's options are easier to identify, his breakout options are almost always in the right place, where they should be, he doesnt have to read whats in front of him as much when making a play.

 

[hototogisu]

So Therrien still isn't smart enough to use his kids in this pre season skate? Vets in the OT? What a tool.

You're really chirping Therrien for the 16 seconds of usage the vets got in OT last night? Geez.

FYI, the vets are the ones who are going to win and lose games for the Habs in OT this year. Not the kids. Petry and Emelin need to get used to 3-on-3 for us way more than our 20 year olds do.

 

[Coldplay]

You're really chirping Therrien for the 16 seconds of usage the vets got in OT last night? Geez.

FYI, the vets are the ones who are going to win and lose games for the Habs in OT this year. Not the kids. Petry and Emelin need to get used to 3-on-3 for us way more than our 20 year olds do.

The chirping is ridiculous, and I'm not siding with it, but I don't think it's a given that Emelin sees the ice in 3v3 OT this year.

If we go for a 2F 1D combination, I can see us rolling with Markov, Subban, Petry, and Beaulieu ahead of him in a 5-minute period. Perhaps even double-shifting a guy like Subban or Markov.

Emelin on the ice for 3v3 sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. There's too much open space for him to handle in a situation like that, IMO. Not the best puck mover or decision maker.

 

[hototogisu]

^ Well I don't think Emelin should be Therrien's first choice (or first 3 choices at least...) but he should at least prepare for the possibility that he may have to at some point....and that's what the preseason is for.

 

[Coldplay]

^ Well I don't think Emelin should be Therrien's first choice (or first 3 choices at least...) but he should at least prepare for the possibility that he may have to at some point....and that's what the preseason for.

For sure. Let's hope it doesn't have to happen though.

 

[Kriss E]

Because while I'm not going to hold grudge on him or call him a washed-up bum because if yesterday, the way he approached loose pucks and board battles was pathetic. And some people wanted him as captain...

You know, when you're given letters, you're supposed to lead by example at some point. Even if it's not eating the boards, you try to at least make it look like you want the puck. I told to myself yesterday not to judge/evaluate/pay attention to veterans alone. But his pansyness along the boards was so noticable I couldn't miss it.

Sorry if I hurt your feeling expressing what I saw in a player that is supposed to be a role model for our youth. In my opinion, he was standing out in a bad way. Not gonna say we should trade him for that, but that was disappointing.

Who cares, get over yourself. Plekanec's game isn't about battling hard in the corners, it never was. To criticize him for it during a pre-season game no less is funnier more than anything.

 

[LaP]

The biggest disappointment to me in this game was by far Ghetto. He lost lot of points yesterday imo.

 

[Treb]

Tinordi was better last night..he still made a few errors but nothing too glaring. Defencemen are not always developed at 23...an that's certainly the case with Tinordi. For him it is more mental than anything as his mobility/quickness looks improved..he has to get his confidence back. Let's not forget that he suffered a scary injury last year.

He was ok on the physical and defensive part of the game.

He has a mountain to climb with the puck on his stick though.

At this point he'll be either traded, waived or press-boxed. From what I seen so far this year, my playing order would be:
Subban (Need to see in pre-season, saw only scrimmages)
Markov (Need to see in pre-season, saw only scrimmages)
Petry
Emelin
Beaulieu (Need to see in pre-season, saw only scrimmages)
Pateryn
Gilbert (Need to see in pre-season, saw only scrimmages)
Barberio
Dietz
Tinordi

I hope he can fix himself before the end of training camp.

 

[Agalloch]

The biggest disappointment to me in this gamer was by far Ghetto. He lost lot of points yesterday imo.

Yes. And he's now practicing with :

Аrpon Basu ‏@ArponBasu 11 minil y a 11 minutes Voir la traduction
#Habs lines this morning: Flynn-Plekanec-Gallagher; Eller-Galchenyuk-Semin; Flash-DD-Weise; JDLR-Mitchell-Kassian; Hudon-Andrighetto-DSP

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Flynn-Plekanec-Gallagher?

What's that all about...

 

[Natey]

Flynn-Plekanec-Gallagher?

What's that all about...

Not only that, but why not Flash-DD-Kassian.