Toronto sweeps Ottawa in 2001 or Anaheim sweeps Detroit in 2003, which was more shocking?

[feffan]

Anaheim sweeping Detroit remains maybe my biggest suprise threw the years, as series goes. I tought Joseph would finally get his Cup. And even if Ottawa took the Presidents Trophy, Detroit was still, as I remember it, "the team to beat".

Ottawa didn´t have that aura that they got a few years later, when at least I really tought they would be able to bring home a Cup. With Washington Ottawa to me may be the franchise in the last 20 years with the strongest team that didn´t bring home a Cup. A step above San Josè (and probably some team I´ve forgotten at the moment...).

 

[goeb]

Hmm lets break this down:

2001 Leafs sweep over Ottawa

1. Leafs backed by arguably the best first round goalie in history, Cujo
2. Leafs already beat the Sen the previous year in the playoffs
3. Leafs had edge in playoff experience and were expected to have a better season
4. Sens were led by Yashin....
5. Sens had Lalime

2003 Ducks Sweep over Red Wings

1. Red Wings swept Ducks in previous 2 playoff meetings in '97 & '99
2. Wings won the cup the previous year
3. Wings had 5+ future HOFers (just an estimate)
4. Wings had huge edge in experience
5. As mentioned above: Wings were backed by Cujo

I think the Ducks are a clear winner here. However, I could argue that the Wild victory over the Avs that same year was probably a bigger upset. I'm still shocked Avs lost that one.

 

[tony d]

Anaheim over Detroit. A lot of people thought Detroit might win the Cup in 2003, don't think the Senators had that same aura about them.

 

[Big Phil]

The Leafs were one of the better low seeded teams I have ever seen in the playoffs in 2001. They had beaten Ottawa the year before in 6 games, then beat them the year after in 7 games. I wouldn't say by 2001 that Ottawa was known as Toronto's whipping boy yet but Ottawa was in such an identity mess with the whole Yashin thing that it did not seem like a winning team to me at the time.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The Leafs were one of the better low seeded teams I have ever seen in the playoffs in 2001. They had beaten Ottawa the year before in 6 games, then beat them the year after in 7 games. I wouldn't say by 2001 that Ottawa was known as Toronto's whipping boy yet but Ottawa was in such an identity mess with the whole Yashin thing that it did not seem like a winning team to me at the time.

So what was the reason Ottawa won all 5 games against Toronto in the regular season prior to the 2001 playoffs?

 

[Doctor No]

So what was the reason Ottawa won all 5 games against Toronto in the regular season prior to the 2001 playoffs?

Probably because in each of the games, they scored more goals than Toronto.

Are you not reading the responses, or do you just not care about responses? You asked a question, and you're getting answers. "Ottawa won all five regular season games" is the only argument you've presented, and you've managed to say it over and over again.

 

[Doctor No]

I have no problem if more people think the answer is Anaheim.

Based on the posts in this thread, I dispute this claim.

 

[McRpro]

If Anaheim had of beaten Detroit in 6 or 7 games I still would pick that as a bigger upset than the Leafs sweeping the Sens in 2001.

 

[streitz]

Probably because in each of the games, they scored more goals than Toronto.

I was going to post that but saw you already did :$.


@LeafsNation75 The flames were 1-6-1 against the Oilers in 86. Probably one of the biggest upsets of all time for shock value.

 

[c9777666]

Toronto IIRC was basically loaded with a ton of veterans in '01. Other than Sundin and Cujo and maybe McCabe, not a lot of youth on that team.

 

[streitz]

Toronto IIRC was basically loaded with a ton of veterans in '01. Other than Sundin and Cujo and maybe McCabe, not a lot of youth on that team.

At that point I would have considered Sundin and Cujo veterans aswell.

 

[Johnny Engine]

McCabe wasn't inexperienced either, at 25 he was in his 6th full season at that point.
The only young and developing player on the team of any importance was Tomas Kaberle, maybe Markov. Antropov and McCauley played smaller roles.

 

[heynowbababooey]

Anaheim beating Detroit and it's not even close.

 

[Big Phil]

So what was the reason Ottawa won all 5 games against Toronto in the regular season prior to the 2001 playoffs?

That actually surprised me to the point where I went and looked it up. Yes it is true, they were 5-0 against them that season and outscored them 20-10. That is the reason why I suppose people felt it was an upset, that and the 19 points between them. However, a year earlier the Leafs beat them in 6 games and outpointed them in the regular season. Toronto struggled at times in the 2001 season compared to the other surrounding Quinn years so I think the general feeling was that Toronto was a lot better than the 90 points that they had in 2001. Or at least that's how I saw it. Plus, like I said that whole Sens team in 2001 had an identity problem with Yashin coming back.

 

[LeafsNation75]

That actually surprised me to the point where I went and looked it up. Yes it is true, they were 5-0 against them that season and outscored them 20-10. That is the reason why I suppose people felt it was an upset, that and the 19 points between them. However, a year earlier the Leafs beat them in 6 games and outpointed them in the regular season. Toronto struggled at times in the 2001 season compared to the other surrounding Quinn years so I think the general feeling was that Toronto was a lot better than the 90 points that they had in 2001. Or at least that's how I saw it. Plus, like I said that whole Sens team in 2001 had an identity problem with Yashin coming back.

I will say this about Toronto in 2001. The 90 points they finished in 7th place with was just 2 more than the 88 points Carolina got for finishing in 8th place. Plus Carolina was tied in points with Boston and I'm assuming the tie breaker at the time was total wins, because they had 38 and Boston had 36. So it shows how close Toronto almost missed the playoffs that season.

In 2003 Anaheim finished 7th with 95 points, Edmonton was 8th with 92 points. However Chicago who finished 9th only had 79 points and was no threat to the Ducks missing the playoffs compared to how much closer the Eastern Conference standings were in 2001.

 

[innitfam]

Definitely Anaheim. No one was giving them a chance against a stacked Detroit team brimming with future Hall-of-Famers.

 

[Big Phil]

I will say this about Toronto in 2001. The 90 points they finished in 7th place with was just 2 more than the 88 points Carolina got for finishing in 8th place. Plus Carolina was tied in points with Boston and I'm assuming the tie breaker at the time was total wins, because they had 38 and Boston had 36. So it shows how close Toronto almost missed the playoffs that season.

In 2003 Anaheim finished 7th with 95 points, Edmonton was 8th with 92 points. However Chicago who finished 9th only had 79 points and was no threat to the Ducks missing the playoffs compared to how much closer the Eastern Conference standings were in 2001.

Alright..............but there is no way the 2003 Ducks were as good as the 2001 Leafs. Points don't tell the whole story. The Ducks were basement dwellers a year earlier. It was much more of a shock what the Ducks did.

 

[c9777666]

When you look at the East standings in 2001, Ottawa's 109 points were 2nd to New Jersey's 111. But consider this:

Three teams that finished below Ottawa points-wise that year actually won more games:

Ottawa won 41 games, Pittsburgh won 42, Philadelphia won 43, Buffalo had 46 (Devils BTW had 48).

Strangely, Ottawa had the exact same record as Washington (41-27-10-4), but had 13 more points! How does that happen?

What aided Ottawa a bit was playing in 14 overtime games with 10 ties (Buffalo had 6 OT games with 5 ties, Pittsburgh had 12 OT games with 9 ties, although Philadelphia also had 14 OT games with 11 ties).

If anything, I could argue that Buffalo (Hasek's last year) was maybe a better team than both Ottawa and Toronto.

Ottawa winning all 5 times vs. Toronto is well documents, but Buffalo beat Ottawa 4 times in 5 head-to-head games that year!

Yet somehow, Buffalo finished 11 points behind Ottawa despite more wins, fewer OT losses.

Big Phil said Ottawa had an identity problem with Yashin coming back- well, Buffalo played that whole season without holdout Michael Peca, plus there were some rumblings that this would be Hasek's last year in Buffalo, so they certainly didn't have an identity problem.

Two Northeast Division teams had star players with uncertain futures there, both were shipped in the summer, yet one team had an identity issue and the other didn't.

 

[streitz]

Two Northeast Division teams had star players with uncertain futures there, both were shipped in the summer, yet one team had an identity issue and the other didn't.

Well this one is easy to figure out. The Sabres had actually been a relatively successful team in the late 90's. 1 run to the finals, another to the CF, and as important as Peca was they had other gritty style forwards who could fill in.


The sens had seen no playoff success other then an upset over the devils in 98, were mostly soft players. Had some skill but no real gamebreaker at that point(although Alfredsson and Hossa were coming into their own).


Not to mention I'd consider Yashin to be a net negative in most of his playoff runs.

In 01 Yashin averaged 25 minutes a game in 4 game and produced 1 point... 2001 NHL Stanley Cup Eastern Conference Quarter-Finals: OTT vs. TOR | Hockey-Reference.com

In 99 against Peca's sabres he averaged 26 minutes... 0 points 1999 NHL Stanley Cup Eastern Conference Quarter-Finals: BUF vs. OTT | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Voight]

Anaheim AINEC... were talking about them sweeping the defending Champs here, with their goalie doing all of the work. Leafs always had Ottawas number in the early 2000's.

 

[EpochLink]

Anaheim over Detroit in 2003.
Detroit was coming off a Stanley Cup win in 2002, heavy favorites in 2003...and got swept.

 

[unknown33]

2001 NHL Playoffs Series Prices | SportsOddsHistory.com
2003 NHL Playoffs Series Prices | SportsOddsHistory.com

Toronto +270 to win the series, Anaheim +525
Not even close, just like people here were saying

 

[FerrisRox]

Like I said before during the 2000-2001 regular season Toronto had lost all 5 games to Ottawa and they didn't clinch a playoff spot until their 81st game. So it was unexpected and no one saw it happening.

Thats not true at all. There were definitely pundits who picked the Leafs to win that series. Many felt, at the time, the Leafs were the worst match up the Senators could get because Ottawa didn't match up well against a physical team.

To say nobody saw it coming is completely false. This one didn't even really register as a surprise.

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm not sure if the Toronto win could even be considered unexpected. My recollection is that they were a common pick for most-likely first round "upset."

Correct. They were.

 

[FerrisRox]

Despite those things people seem to forget that the 2001 Maple Leafs team almost missed the playoffs completely and did not clinch their playoff spot during their 81st regular season game. I will also say again in the regular season they were 0-5 against Ottawa, so despite defeating them in the playoffs in 2000 no one thought they would have done that once again.

Why do you keep saying that? Many people thought they would do it once again, and then they did do it and many people weren't surprised.

You seem very eager to try and re-write history. Many of us were there when it happened and it didn't go down the way you are claiming at all.