Toronto sweeps Ottawa in 2001 or Anaheim sweeps Detroit in 2003, which was more shocking?

[LeafsNation75]

During the 2001 playoffs the Maple Leafs as the #7 seed won their Eastern Conference Quarter-Final series 4-0 over the #2 seed Senators. No one gave the Leafs a chance since Ottawa had won all 5 games against Toronto in the regular season.

During the 2003 playoffs the #7 seed Ducks defeated the #2 seed Red Wings 4-0 in the Western Conference Quarter-Final and Detroit was the defending Stanley Cup champions, which a lot of people said was one of the greatest upsets of all time and no one saw it ever happening.

So which of these 4-0 series wins was the more shocking to see happen?

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[Ishdul]

Anaheim by quite a lot. No one would have considered the 2001 Senators to be better the 2003 Wings, nor the 2003 Ducks to be as good as the 2001 Leafs.

 

[billybudd]

I'm not sure if the Toronto win could even be considered unexpected. My recollection is that they were a common pick for most-likely first round "upset."

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'm not sure if the Toronto win could even be considered unexpected. My recollection is that they were a common pick for most-likely first round "upset."

Like I said before during the 2000-2001 regular season Toronto had lost all 5 games to Ottawa and they didn't clinch a playoff spot until their 81st game. So it was unexpected and no one saw it happening.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Another point to consider - there's usually a strong correlation between a team's goal differential, and their points in the standings. Toronto actually had a much better goal differential than Anaheim (+25 vs +10), yet Anaheim had a better record. The reason for that was Anaheim had an excellent record in one-goal games (24-9), which was probably due to luck. Anaheim may have had more points, but goal differential suggests Toronto was a better team.

Also, Ottawa had only won two playoff games over the past two years, despite having 103 and 95 point seasons. Detroit, obviously, was the reigning Stanley Cup champions.

What these two points together suggest - on paper, based on their regular season records, these matchups were pretty close. But Toronto was facing a team that struggled in the postseason, while Anaheim's record was inflated, and they faced a team that had tremendous playoff success. The 2003 matchup was a much bigger upset.

 

[streitz]

Ducks/Wings by a mile.


I was surprised the sens got swept but not that they lost. They were a soft unproven team at that point, despite their standing.

 

[streitz]

Like I said before during the 2000-2001 regular season Toronto had lost all 5 games to Ottawa and they didn't clinch a playoff spot until their 81st game. So it was unexpected and no one saw it happening.

Also dude just because you didn't see it happening doesn't mean most people didn't. Very few people I knew at the time considered Bonk or Yashin to be playoff warriors capable of winning a round. Not to mention the Sens lost to the leafs the year before, and that was without Roberts.

 

[Ishdul]

The 1999 Senators also got swept in the first round as a 2 seed.

 

[billybudd]

Like I said before during the 2000-2001 regular season Toronto had lost all 5 games to Ottawa and they didn't clinch a playoff spot until their 81st game. So it was unexpected and no one saw it happening.

The Senators were earning a pretty widespread reputation as playoff chokers and the Leafs had a lot of guys who were seen as playoff warriors, as well as having eliminated the Senators one year prior with a weaker Leafs roster. A Senator loss was not an outcome that nobody saw coming.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Also dude just because you didn't see it happening doesn't mean most people didn't. Very few people I knew at the time considered Bonk or Yashin to be playoff warriors capable of winning a round. Not to mention the Sens lost to the leafs the year before, and that was without Roberts.

The Senators were earning a pretty widespread reputation as playoff chokers and the Leafs had a lot of guys who were seen as playoff warriors, as well as having eliminated the Senators one year prior with a weaker Leafs roster. A Senator loss was not an outcome that nobody saw coming.

Despite those things people seem to forget that the 2001 Maple Leafs team almost missed the playoffs completely and did not clinch their playoff spot during their 81st regular season game. I will also say again in the regular season they were 0-5 against Ottawa, so despite defeating them in the playoffs in 2000 no one thought they would have done that once again.

 

[streitz]

Despite those things people seem to forget that the 2001 Maple Leafs team almost missed the playoffs completely and did not clinch their playoff spot during their 81st regular season game. I will also say again in the regular season they were 0-5 against Ottawa, so despite defeating them in the playoffs in 2000 no one thought they would have done that once again.

Well I remember thinking the leafs would win. Infact the only team I thought the Martin era sens would beat were the islanders(who by that time had Yashin, lol).


Stop trying to make the 01 leafs seem like bigger underdogs then they were, 7-8 seeds with depth and experience upset top seeds almost every year.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Well I remember thinking the leafs would win. Infact the only team I thought the Martin era sens would beat were the islanders(who by that time had Yashin, lol).


Stop trying to make the 01 leafs seem like bigger underdogs then they were, 7-8 seeds with depth and experience upset top seeds almost every year.

Pat Quinn said himself he thought their was no chance the Leafs would have won that series 4-0. You can think what you want but the Leafs were not given any chance against Ottawa based on their play against them in the regular season and their overall play as a team. Ottawa had 109 points and Toronto had 90 points, so were talking a difference of 19 points between them in the standings.

 

[streitz]

Pat Quinn said himself he thought their was no chance the Leafs would have won that series 4-0. You can think what you want but the Leafs were not given any chance against Ottawa based on their play against them in the regular season and their overall play as a team. Ottawa had 109 points and Toronto had 90 points, so were talking a difference of 19 points between them in the standings.

In 1982 the kings had 63 points and the Oilers had 111 points, guess who won?


These types of things happen all the time, not always sweeps(I don't think anyone would predict a sweep) but the Leafs beating the sens in 2001 shouldn't of been a surprise to anyone.

Ottawa Senators 2000-01 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

Pick out a playoff warrior on that roster.


Alfredsson was always solid.
Hossa was young and still mostly unproven although he broke out that year.
Anyone else?

Toronto Maple Leafs 2000-01 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com


Roberts, Tucker, Corson, Domi, McCabe, They even had old Dave Manson who I didn't realize played for the leafs(he only played 2 playoff games though). Again outside of Roberts I don't particularly like any of these players but I'd take these guys over most of the sens roster in those years.

Back then intimidation was still a thing, no offense to the sens but the reality is the main reason they lost in 2000,01,02,04 is because of 1) Goaltending 2)Physicality.

 

[LeafsNation75]

In 1982 the kings had 63 points and the Oilers had 111 points, guess who won?


These types of things happen all the time, not always sweeps(I don't think anyone would predict a sweep) but the Leafs beating the sens in 2001 shouldn't of been a surprise to anyone.

Ottawa Senators 2000-01 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

Pick out a playoff warrior on that roster.


Alfredsson was always solid.
Hossa was young and still mostly unproven although he broke out that year.
Anyone else?

Toronto Maple Leafs 2000-01 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com


Roberts, Tucker, Corson, Domi, McCabe, They even had old Dave Manson who I didn't realize played for the leafs(he only played 2 playoff games though). Again outside of Roberts I don't particularly like any of these players but I'd take these guys over most of the sens roster in those years.

Back then intimidation was still a thing, no offense to the sens but the reality is the main reason they lost in 2000,01,02,04 is because of 1) Goaltending 2)Physicality.

It was a surprise to me. Obviously I was not expecting them to sweep them and I was happy they won the series, however I remember thinking their chances weren't as good as 2000 based on what happened during the regular season, along with going 0-5 against Ottawa.

 

[streitz]

It was a surprise to me. Obviously I was not expecting them to sweep them and I was happy they won the series, however I remember thinking their chances weren't as good as 2000 based on what happened during the regular season, along with going 0-5 against Ottawa.

I mean like I said in my first post I didn't expect a sweep but I did expect the leafs to win. Veteran teams usually preform better in the playoffs than regular season.

At that point the Sens were very Green and soft. Also like another poster pointed out the Sens were swept in 99 by the Sabres who were a 7 seed against the sens at 2.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I mean like I said in my first post I didn't expect a sweep but I did expect the leafs to win. Veteran teams usually preform better in the playoffs than regular season.

At that point the Sens were very Green and soft. Also like another poster pointed out the Sens were swept in 99 by the Sabres who were a 7 seed against the sens at 2.

I get how Toronto was the veteran team and how Ottawa lost 4-0 in 1999 as the #2 seed like they were in 2001. However you have to agree that some people did not give the Leafs a chance because they were 0-5 against Ottawa in the regular season and just barley making the playoffs during their 81st regular season game.

 

[streitz]

I get how Toronto was the veteran team and how Ottawa lost 4-0 in 1999 as the #2 seed like they were in 2001. However you have to agree that some people did not give the Leafs a chance because they were 0-5 against Ottawa in the regular season and just barley making the playoffs during their 81st regular season game.

I mean I'm not saying every single person had to agree with my assertion and I may have come off as a tad argumentative in my posts.

That being said I remember the majority of people I spoke to before those sens/leafs series pretty much picked the leafs every time.


The only year where I thought the sens had a real chance was 2002 because Sundin was hurt.

 

[Doctor No]

LeafsNation75, you seem to be lobbying for this one pretty hard - moreover, you're the *only* one lobbying for this.

Why did you ask the question if you didn't want the consensus answer (which Anaheim is)?

 

[LeafsNation75]

I mean I'm not saying every single person had to agree with my assertion and I may have come off as a tad argumentative in my posts.

That being said I remember the majority of people I spoke to before those sens/leafs series pretty much picked the leafs every time.


The only year where I thought the sens had a real chance was 2002 because Sundin was hurt.

Sundin also got hurt in Game 4 against Ottawa in 2004, yet the Leafs still won that series in 7 games.

 

[LeafsNation75]

LeafsNation75, you seem to be lobbying for this one pretty hard - moreover, you're the *only* one lobbying for this.

Why did you ask the question if you didn't want the consensus answer (which Anaheim is)?

I have no problem if more people think the answer is Anaheim. I just thought maybe others might remember the Leafs going 0-5 against the Senators during the 2001 regular season and just making the playoffs during their 81st game, as to why the Leafs defeating them 4-0 was a shock when it happened.

 

[streitz]

Sundin also got hurt in Game 4 against Ottawa in 2004, yet the Leafs still won that series in 7 games.

Yeah but the Lalime affect was in full swing that year, and by that time they picked up Nieuwendyk

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yeah but the Lalime affect was in full swing that year, and by that time they picked up Nieuwendyk

Besides Ed Belfour having 3 shutouts in their 2004 series, I always thought Nieuwendyk was the other reason they defeated them that year.

 

[seventieslord]

Like I said before during the 2000-2001 regular season Toronto had lost all 5 games to Ottawa and they didn't clinch a playoff spot until their 81st game. So it was unexpected and no one saw it happening.

You asked, they answered. Did you come here to ask or argue?

The Leafs were much better than a 7th place team. They had a late season slump that nearly sunk them but they were still a second tier contender. It was not a shock that they won, though obviously a sweep is always unlikely. The real shock would have been if they missed the playoffs.

There's no way this was as big a surprise as Anaheim. You didn't expect it to be unanimous, but it was.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You asked, they answered. Did you come here to ask or argue?

The Leafs were much better than a 7th place team. They had a late season slump that nearly sunk them but they were still a second tier contender. It was not a shock that they won, though obviously a sweep is always unlikely. The real shock would have been if they missed the playoffs.

There's no way this was as big a surprise as Anaheim. You didn't expect it to be unanimous, but it was.

It was more than a late season slump. I remember a major reason for it was them blowing that 5-0 3rd period lead to the Blues on November 29, 2000 and they almost never recovered from that loss.

 

[streitz]

It was more than a late season slump. I remember a major reason for it was them blowing that 5-0 3rd period lead to the Blues on November 29, 2000 and they almost never recovered from that loss.

2000–01 Toronto Maple Leafs season - Wikipedia

They had 5 wins and 1 tie right after that game.