Proposal: Toronto - St.Louis

[BleedBlue14]

Colton Parayko
For
William Nylander

If the leafs sign JT

Rielly - - Parayko
Gardiner - Zaitsev

Really solidifies the leafs D, with Nylander potentially centring Vladamir Tarasenko which would be a deadly duo

Ooooo this is a new one. I'm gonna have to strongly consider this

 

[Ziggdiezan]

No need for 3rd line plug-in. Rather take pick from return of Gunnarson.

Blues decline this trade. + Don't want to help Toronto horrendous d-core get better.

I feel like the Leafs d-core being horrible gets a little overstated. Over the regular season they let in 8 more goals than the Blues putting them at the 12th least goal against in the league.

I feel like a team with a horrendous d-core wouldn't be rated so well for GA. They had 4 less goal against than the lightning (13th), 8 less than the Caps (16th), etc.

The Leafs defense is not great but it is certainly not awful or they wouldn't have got over 100 points.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I feel like the Leafs d-core being horrible gets a little overstated. Over the regular season they let in 8 more goals than the Blues putting them at the 12th least goal against in the league.

I feel like a team with a horrendous d-core wouldn't be rated so well for GA. They had 4 less goal against than the lightning (13th), 8 less than the Caps (16th), etc.

The Leafs defense is not great but it is certainly not awful or they wouldn't have got over 100 points.

Not trying to make a snide comment here but do you think any of it has to do with playing in different divisions? I don't think it's any secret that the Central is a gauntlet or was this year whereas the Atlantic while pretty strong at the top was absolutely terrible aside from that.

 

[rent free]

Not trying to make a snide comment here but do you think any of it has to do with playing in different divisions? I don't think it's any secret that the Central is a gauntlet or was this year whereas the Atlantic while pretty strong at the top was absolutely terrible aside from that.

nope. its more of our goalie is far superior than your goalie. our defense is like a dog trying to sniff its own ass.

 

[BleedBlue14]

nope. its more of our goalie is far superior than your goalie. our defense is like a dog trying to sniff its own ass.

I'm not going to dispute the goalie. Didn't Freddy go through a rough patch as well early in the season or was that a year before?

 

[rent free]

I'm not going to dispute the goalie. Didn't Freddy go through a rough patch as well early in the season or was that a year before?

both years (this and last) he went through a rough patch early into the season.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Not trying to make a snide comment here but do you think any of it has to do with playing in different divisions? I don't think it's any secret that the Central is a gauntlet or was this year whereas the Atlantic while pretty strong at the top was absolutely terrible aside from that.

The Leafs had 2 out of the top 4 teams in the NHL in their division who they had to play a lot. Panthers ended up with almost 100 points too. Wouldn't say it was too easy a division. I'm not going to get into arguing the differences of the divisions though.

Why did Toronto have less GA than Tampa who are in the same division? How could a team with a horrendous defense do that?

 

[Kamiccolo]

The Leafs had 2 out of the top 4 teams in the NHL in their division who they had to play a lot. Panthers ended up with almost 100 points too. Wouldn't say it was too easy a division. I'm not going to get into arguing the differences of the divisions though.

Why did Toronto have less GA than Tampa who are in the same division? How could a team with a horrendous defense do that?

The narrative that the Leafs have problems in goal AND a terrible defense, yet the numbers suggest they are better than teams hyped up to have top defenses and goalies is laughable.

I will be the first to say, Freddy crapped the bed. Gardiner had a bad game as well. However, if you look outside those small sample sizes, Gardiner was a very, very good D all year long, and Andersen had about 3/4 of the year where he was playing at a Vezina level quality.

I have no worries that there will be times these guys all get hot (Matthews too) at the same time right at the playoffs and they will go on a deep run.

It seems like it's other fans who are more worried about the teams future honestly.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

The narrative that the Leafs have problems in goal AND a terrible defense, yet the numbers suggest they are better than teams hyped up to have top defenses and goalies is laughable.

I will be the first to say, Freddy crapped the bed. Gardiner had a bad game as well. However, if you look outside those small sample sizes, Gardiner was a very, very good D all year long, and Andersen had about 3/4 of the year where he was playing at a Vezina level quality.

I have no worries that there will be times these guys all get hot (Matthews too) at the same time right at the playoffs and they will go on a deep run.

It seems like it's other fans who are more worried about the teams future honestly.

Ya I feel like a lot of people on this board who aren't Leafs/Bruins fans watched only game 7 and then drew their conclusions on all leaf players from that 1 game.... or they just listened to the people who only watched game 7 lol.

Freddy had a pretty poor series I would say from his high standards during the regular season. A few great games but too many very easy goals against Boston.

Gardiner did have a good year. 52 points, playing tough match ups, leading the team in ATOI, have more zone starts in the defensive zone than offensive at even strengh etc. Had to carry Zaitsev who had a poor year due to injury. But ya he had a bad game 7 so he now has negative value lol..

 

[Spirit of 67]

Props for thinking outside the box, but I can't see Toronto doing this.

Well, it's outside the box.

 

[Cosmo78]

For those who don't remember Gunner didn't exactly pan out in his first stint with TO why would this time be any different and he's much older. Today's NHL is much faster and skilled that's what we need on the back end not another Polak. And Brown just needs more opportunities to consistently play with skilled players

 

[67Blues]

For those who don't remember Gunner didn't exactly pan out in his first stint with TO why would this time be any different and he's much older. Today's NHL is much faster and skilled that's what we need on the back end not another Polak. And Brown just needs more opportunities to consistently play with skilled players

He has actually been very good as a #4 defenseman for the Blues. The only reason he is expendable is because of the emergence of Dunn and the development of Edmundson. Now we have JBo and Gunnar fighting for time on the left side. Now, I believe that they will keep him around until they can evaluate JBo's results from his rehab.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

He has actually been very good as a #4 defenseman for the Blues. The only reason he is expendable is because of the emergence of Dunn and the development of Edmundson. Now we have JBo and Gunnar fighting for time on the left side. Now, I believe that they will keep him around until they can evaluate JBo's results from his rehab.

Didn't he miss a ton of games this year and last year? And how would he have been a #4 if Parayko played with mainly with Dunn and Edmundson on the 2nd pairing meaning Gunner was on the third pairing for the 60 or so games he played.

Leafs have Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott on the left side. They don't need a left shot defender at all, espeically for a valuable piece like Brown.

 

[Cosmo78]

Didn't he miss a ton of games this year and last year? And how would he have been a #4 if Parayko played with mainly with Dunn and Edmundson on the 2nd pairing meaning Gunner was on the third pairing for the 60 or so games he played.

Leafs have Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott on the left side. They don't need a left shot defender at all, espeically for a valuable piece like Brown.

I agree, if the Leafs are going to get a LHD it better involve trading Jake and another asset or draft pick for a younger mobile defensive stay at home and protect Freddy. We've already got 2 young smooth offensive LHD in Reilly and Dermott. Time to get a shut down.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'd be down for bringing Gunnar back because he's an upgrade on Polak, that's not up for debate, yiu aren't getting Brown.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I agree, if the Leafs are going to get a LHD it better involve trading Jake and another asset or draft pick for a younger mobile defensive stay at home and protect Freddy. We've already got 2 young smooth offensive LHD in Reilly and Dermott. Time to get a shut down.

Trading Gardiner would be a huge mistake. I know he will have to go at some point but we need to keep him. He can lose you a game by himself it's true, but he can win you games as well. One of the best D on the team and if he didn't have the every other game massive brain fart that made him look foolish, he'd be seen as one of the best D in the NHL.

 

[Cosmo78]

Trading Gardiner would be a huge mistake. I know he will have to go at some point but we need to keep him. He can lose you a game by himself it's true, but he can win you games as well. One of the best D on the team and if he didn't have the every other game massive brain fart that made him look foolish, he'd be seen as one of the best D in the NHL.

More of a reason to trade him now while his stock is high. If you can get a younger LHD that carries less cap hit and longer term like Slavin from CAR, you put him in the bottom pairing and give Dermott the minutes of Jake. Dermott was much better in his end then Jake, and has just as much offensive talent as Jake with a higher hockey IQ.

 

[Kamiccolo]

More of a reason to trade him now while his stock is high. If you can get a younger LHD that carries less cap hit and longer term like Slavin from CAR, you put him in the bottom pairing and give Dermott the minutes of Jake. Dermott was much better in his end then Jake, and has just as much offensive talent as Jake with a higher hockey IQ.

Right. The Leafs will just get Slavin, why didn't we think of this! Get to it Dubas.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Love the leaf fans reaction in this thread

 

[Cosmo78]

Right. The Leafs will just get Slavin, why didn't we think of this! Get to it Dubas.

By no means am I suggesting it would be straight up trade. But, if TOR offered Jake, Bracco and maybe a 3rd RD it just might be enough to entice CAR, a team in upper management disarray, if I'm a GM in the NHL that's a team I'd be taking advantage of for a steal of a trade. Hey EDM was stupid and that was with a seasoned GM in Chiarelli. NJ and it's fans are laughing now.

 

[Notsince67]

For those who don't remember Gunner didn't exactly pan out in his first stint with TO why would this time be any different and he's much older. Today's NHL is much faster and skilled that's what we need on the back end not another Polak. And Brown just needs more opportunities to consistently play with skilled players

Thank you. Gunner pinched almost as poorly as Phaneuf. No takebacks unless the Blues want a salary dump in exchange for giving Toronto a 3rd round pick

 

[Dr Quincy]

we have enough third line players on the team. The positions will be filled by thomas, kyrou thompson. We will take a 2nd though

So you are saying Gunnarsson will be on the Blues in 2018-19.

 

[Dr Quincy]

He has actually been very good as a #4 defenseman for the Blues. The only reason he is expendable is because of the emergence of Dunn and the development of Edmundson. Now we have JBo and Gunnar fighting for time on the left side. Now, I believe that they will keep him around until they can evaluate JBo's results from his rehab.

6th in ATOI this year
7th in ATOI last season (among guys who played at least 30 games)
5th in ATOI in 15-16

You have to go back to 14-15 to see when Gunnarsson was a #4D.

 

[stl76]

6th in ATOI this year
7th in ATOI last season (among guys who played at least 30 games)
5th in ATOI in 15-16

You have to go back to 14-15 to see when Gunnarsson was a #4D.

Rather than being lazy and assuming that ATOI is the only representation of a defenseman's role, let's look at Gunnarsson's partners last season (these numbers are for all situations):

Partner	Pietrangelo	Parayko	Bortuzzo	Dunn
TOI	419.23	277.08	216.85	54.48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gunnarsson's 5v5TOI% was 5th on the Blues, IF you include Bouwmeester's 35 games played. His 5v5TOIQoC% was 28.9 which would easily be considered 2nd pairing level. Gunnarsson played the majority of his ice time (over 70%) on the first or second paring w/ Pietrangelo or Parayko. Particularly after Bouwmeester's injury, Gunnarsson was asked to play a very large role in our top 4 last season.

There are several reasons Gunnarsson's aTOI is misleading. For one, he rarely played on special teams. Gunnarsson was also playing above his head, which lead to the team trying to limit his exposure and minutes. When the team needed a goal late in a game, Dunn would often play with Pietrangelo instead of Gunnar. When the team needed to protect a lead late in a game, Edmundson would often play with Pietrangelo.

In other words, Gunnarsson might not have logged as many minutes as you might expect from a true top-4 guy, but his 5v5 usage was generally WAY tougher than the average bottom pairing dman. For comparison, Bortuzzo played exclusively on the bottom pairing last season and his 5v5TOI%QoC was 28.23. This may not seem like a huge difference, but Gunnarsson's QoC (28.9) was much closer to Pietrangelo's (29.36) than Bortuzzo's (28.23).

Personally, I think Gunnarsson played enough on the top pairing against top competition to qualify as a legit top 4 guy last season. In general, I would classify Gunnar as an excellent #5 who can play up the lineup in the top 4 for extended stretches without looking TOO out of place.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Our most effective D pairings this past season were as follows

Edmundson-Pietrangelo
Gunnarsson-Parayko
Dunn-Bortuzzo

Gunnar was a solid #4 this year.