Post-Game Talk: Toronto Sports Team Loses In Extra Play

[Darth Menace]

I watched 80% of this game and 20% Jays. Although I am a much bigger hockey fan, I am glad the results ended the way they did instead of reverse. That being said, overall as a team and not judging individual play,I found nothing positive from this game other than the super low shots by Ottawa in the 2nd and 3rd. Taking stupid penalties and scrambling around in their own end if what I saw tonight.

 

[Sperss1997]

First I got to tell you that I have never worn a pair of skates. My hockey knowledge isnt top notch but I love the game nevertheless.

My question is: goalie positioning. Two of three Sens goals came from deflection shots and the third came in a similar way regarding to goalie position. They looked a bit too easy for me, because the goalie were far away from the goal line. Especially goals one and three. I know that the goalie try to cut the angles on the direct shot, but doing so he opens up an empty net for the deflection - or as with the third goal quick puck movement.

The third goal stands out to me. When the goalie are so far away from the goal line it is impossible to save the first timer after quick puck movement. Being on the goal line or closer to it, would force the first timer to be more accurate, since the goalie will be able to atleast move his body and save shots not well placed close to the post.

Shouldnt the goalies trust blocks a little bit more?

Ofc, I know they are trained professionals and they have coaches with loads of data to guide them. So the positioning is probably the best statistically. I just found it questionable

 

[Nithoniniel]

First I got to tell you that I have never worn a pair of skates. My hockey knowledge isnt top notch but I love the game nevertheless.

My question is: goalie positioning. Two of three Sens goals came from deflection shots and the third came in a similar way regarding to goalie position. They looked a bit too easy for me, because the goalie were far away from the goal line. Especially goals one and three. I know that the goalie try to cut the angles on the direct shot, but doing so he opens up an empty net for the deflection - or as with the third goal quick puck movement.

The third goal stands out to me. When the goalie are so far away from the goal line it is impossible to save the first timer after quick puck movement. Being on the goal line or closer to it, would force the first timer to be more accurate, since the goalie will be able to atleast move his body and save shots not well placed close to the post.

Shouldnt the goalies trust blocks a little bit more?

Ofc, I know they are trained professionals and they have coaches with loads of data to guide them. So the positioning is probably the best statistically. I just found it questionable

With goaltenders there's a symbiosis between him and the defense that is not talked about as often as it should. For a goaltender to really do his job, he needs to have faith that his defense will do theirs. A goaltender that tries to cover for his defense will cheat and leave openings everywhere, and defense that tries to cover for a weak goaltender gives opportunities that makes the job harder in the end for the goaltender. That symbiosis is really important and quite fragile.

So when a shot comes in, the goaltender is not supposed to think about what happens if a shot goes wide but gets redirected. If he starts to cheat to cover that, he leaves openings for shots that is fully his job to stop. So deflections are rarely on the goaltender, they are just a hard save and a good chance if executed properly.

The third goal though was an open man on the far post. Generally you want the defense to cover the passing lane, but you can't rely on that 100%. On a 4-on-3 the goaltender should preferably be a bit deeper, and Bibeau was for sure very slow in his lateral movement there. In the end, it's still a high percentage play that has a good chance to be converted regardless of what the defense and goalie does.

Oh, and kudos on the honesty. "The wise man knows that he knows nothing. The fool thinks he knows all." Chinese saying, but Socrates said something similar. In this example, you are the wise man and I play the fool

 

[diceman934]

I was at the game....Marner, Mathews and Nylander all had played better. To read that Mathews was good while saying Marner was not is funny.

Here is my take on some of the players. Neilson needs a ton of work...he seriously struggled. His ice time was reflective of this.

Carrick was great all game long and has earned a roster spot. Holland was good as well, his D zone coverage was very good.

Kapanen had a very good game as well...

Leafs were playing a almost NHL roster and controlled the game from start to finish, refs made some silly calls and best of all Dion was booed all game long. He turned down Prust Twice.....Prust had a decent game as well. Goaltending does not look like it will be an issue.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I was at the game....Marner, Mathews and Nylander all had played better. To read that Mathews was good while saying Marner was not is funny.

Here is my take on some of the players. Neilson needs a ton of work...he seriously struggled. His ice time was reflective of this.

Carrick was great all game long and has earned a roster spot. Holland was good as well, his D zone coverage was very good.

Kapanen had a very good game as well...

Leafs were playing a almost NHL roster and controlled the game from start to finish, refs made some silly calls and best of all Dion was booed all game long. He turned down Prust Twice.....Prust had a decent game as well. Goaltending does not look like it will be an issue.

Agree on pretty much every point.

 

[crump]

I bet that ice was brutal. It looks like my old table hockey game surface. Marner will adjust. The plays where he is just a little late on, or too soft on will be corrected. He's smart and he's done it at every level. It won't take him long either. I thought they had a good third period. They seemed to be a little more cautious since Babcock came back. A little time to adjust for those players new to him.

 

[hullsy47]

Agree on pretty much every point.

gardner was brutal ...

 

[Sperss1997]

With goaltenders there's a symbiosis between him and the defense that is not talked about as often as it should. For a goaltender to really do his job, he needs to have faith that his defense will do theirs. A goaltender that tries to cover for his defense will cheat and leave openings everywhere, and defense that tries to cover for a weak goaltender gives opportunities that makes the job harder in the end for the goaltender. That symbiosis is really important and quite fragile.

So when a shot comes in, the goaltender is not supposed to think about what happens if a shot goes wide but gets redirected. If he starts to cheat to cover that, he leaves openings for shots that is fully his job to stop. So deflections are rarely on the goaltender, they are just a hard save and a good chance if executed properly.

The third goal though was an open man on the far post. Generally you want the defense to cover the passing lane, but you can't rely on that 100%. On a 4-on-3 the goaltender should preferably be a bit deeper, and Bibeau was for sure very slow in his lateral movement there. In the end, it's still a high percentage play that has a good chance to be converted regardless of what the defense and goalie does.

Oh, and kudos on the honesty. "The wise man knows that he knows nothing. The fool thinks he knows all." Chinese saying, but Socrates said something similar. In this example, you are the wise man and I play the fool

Ty for your reply sire
Im glad that I wasnt completely wrong with the third goal. I thought the goalie gave up too much net for the shooter.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I was at the game....Marner, Mathews and Nylander all had played better. To read that Mathews was good while saying Marner was not is funny.

Here is my take on some of the players. Neilson needs a ton of work...he seriously struggled. His ice time was reflective of this.

Carrick was great all game long and has earned a roster spot. Holland was good as well, his D zone coverage was very good.

Kapanen had a very good game as well...

Leafs were playing a almost NHL roster and controlled the game from start to finish, refs made some silly calls and best of all Dion was booed all game long. He turned down Prust Twice.....Prust had a decent game as well. Goaltending does not look like it will be an issue.

Now you're freaking me out. I don't know what to say, this is going to take some getting used to.

 

[SprDaVE]

I thought the team overall looked pretty good. Very good forecheck and puck management with very little errors in their own end. They kept the puck in the offensive zone for most of the game and if you play like that, you'll give yourself a chance to win most nights. Giving up 3 or 4 shots in the 3rd period + OT is very good and impressive.

Marner, Matthews and Nylander have been super snake bitten in the goal scoring department. They've had a lot of chances but just can't quite finish or just get robbed. If they keep playing well, they will start pilling on goals and points.

Impressive game last night for the most part.

 

[Warden of the North]

Thr biggest thing that stands out to me is speed. The training wheels are off Rielly and he is FLYING out there. Hes far more involved in the play and he is carrying the puck with confidence.

Zaitsev is also impressive. I was not expecting his mobility, particularly in the offensive zone when he is working the blueline.

And Gardiner is Gardiner.

Those three combined with the influx of talent and speed up front has dramatically changed the way this team looks.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

I'm probably just over analysing things, but have the leafs looked kinda slow to anyone else? Like good stick positioning, smart net front play, but just... slow. Granted, I'm expectant that everyone is going to be top flight for Wednesday, but I was wondering if anyone else was thinking...where's the next gear?

 

[ToneBone03]

Some thoughts:

Marner & Matthews don't work well together. Seemed like every time they were on the ice together Marner was going on a rush. Matthews didn't get the puck enough. I loved Matthews w/ Willie and Marner w/ Bozak/JVR. Willie defers to Auston a lot more.

Rielly & Zaitsev - WOW! Both are incredibly dynamic and work amazingly together. It seemed like Rielly was absolutely everywhere last night and Zaitsev's decision making skills are top notch. Probably the most impressed I've ever been with Rielly in a game. If Babs ever does decide to keep/put them together we could have something super special here.

Kapanen has an absolute laser beam of a wrister. Thought he played a great game.

Easily Prust's best game of the preseason. He was making plays and being physical. Exactly the type of game you want from him.

I am a big fan of Frankie Corrado and would pencil him into the lineup over Polak every time. Carrick is also good.

I see a lot of potential in Moore. He was very timid out there tonight but he let the reins go on one shift and he was absolutely flying out there. Understandable that he was probably nervous. Wasn't this his first preseason game?

Last, but not least, Freddy Andersen looked absolutely rock solid. He makes it look so easy in net because he's always in position. Pucks usually hit him square in the chest. We've got a good one here, folks!

 

[Nithoniniel]

gardner was brutal ...

Ok? Gardiner was not mentioned in the post that I agreed with, so no idea why you quoted me to say that.

Oh, and I disagree.

Ty for your reply sire
Im glad that I wasnt completely wrong with the third goal. I thought the goalie gave up too much net for the shooter.

Yeah he did. It was a bad move by the goalie.

Thr biggest thing that stands out to me is speed. The training wheels are off Rielly and he is FLYING out there. Hes far more involved in the play and he is carrying the puck with confidence.

Zaitsev is also impressive. I was not expecting his mobility, particularly in the offensive zone when he is working the blueline.

And Gardiner is Gardiner.

Those three combined with the influx of talent and speed up front has dramatically changed the way this team looks.

Rielly looks supremely confident right now. I've been of the opinion that he's gotten too much credit for the minutes he played compared to how well he does in them, but I have a feeling that he's going to have a huge year. To the point that he'll join the rather exclusive group of D-men who almost unanimously are called a #1D.

 

[Liminality]

I'd rather Marner struggle a bit with his transition to the NHL than give him a cake walk year in junior again.

 

[Leafsman]

I thought the team overall looked pretty good. Very good forecheck and puck management with very little errors in their own end. They kept the puck in the offensive zone for most of the game and if you play like that, you'll give yourself a chance to win most nights. Giving up 3 or 4 shots in the 3rd period + OT is very good and impressive.

Marner, Matthews and Nylander have been super snake bitten in the goal scoring department. They've had a lot of chances but just can't quite finish or just get robbed. If they keep playing well, they will start pilling on goals and points.

Impressive game last night for the most part.

I think once they get a goal or two, they'll take off. I think there play is about par for preseason.

 

[X66]

Good to know the sens are going to be another slow team that'll get outplayed in most games they play this season.

 

[X66]

I told yall not to sleep on my boy kapanen.

 

[realgoodleafs]

He didn't look in place against an Ottawa team that essentially iced a roster that resembles what a regular season team will look like. Not just some preseason games.

He made a lot of good plays offensively and defensively last night and he definitely looked in place. He had a few soft passes that he'll need to get out of his game at this level that he'd never be able to learn in junior.

People seem to react negatively to last nights game even though Ottawa could barely even get a shot for the last two periods.

 

[Northernguy10]

I rarely miss a Leafs game but I watched the Jays last night. Thought I'd catch up on the comments this morning. All I have to say is "wow" about some of the comments. Some of you live and die with every shift and expect 100% perfection from the team and specific players at all times even in exhibition games.It's called drafting "and developing" for a reason. The drafting seems to be off to a good start and we have the right people in charge to take care of the developing. Just taking Marner as an example , he wasn't drafted to make the safe 10 foot passes all the time. The NHL has become a pin ball machine and you have to make plays through traffic when you have about half a second to do so and usually on bad ice. Here's a tip. He will not complete every pass and make the right decision every time.Even Gretzky didn't. But he will get better and better in doing so as time goes on. Highly skilled offensive players will fail in the offensive zone but a lot less so than less skilled players. They'll make plays that others can't. The game today is super fast with a ton of traffic almost all over the ice all the time. Understand this.

 

[Guy Boucher]

I really hope they play Rielly with Zaitsev. It should be really clear how much better Rielly is when playing the left side vs the right side.

Also thought Carrick was really solid.

Best game I've seen Kapanen play...ever. Even without the goal, he looked like the smartest player on his line.

 

[Nithoniniel]

He made a lot of good plays offensively and defensively last night and he definitely looked in place. He had a few soft passes that he'll need to get out of his game at this level that he'd never be able to learn in junior.

People seem to react negatively to last nights game even though Ottawa could barely even get a shot for the last two periods.

Exactly. People seem to put some extreme expectations on some of these youngsters, as if they could only really belong and become good if they performed flawlessly.

Whether Marner belongs or not in the NHL doesn't hinge on the absence of rookie mistakes, but on his ability to positively impact his team. He maybe didn't wow last night, but he still performed better than a two time Norris trophy winner.

I guess Karlsson doesn't belong in the NHL either.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Gardiner doesn't seem to have any hockey IQ. I have no idea why he thinks that the last five minutes of a game is the time to get cute with the puck and stop skating. I know it's pre-season, but he is such knucklehead.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ok? Gardiner was not mentioned in the post that I agreed with, so no idea why you quoted me to say that.

Oh, and I disagree.

Yeah he did. It was a bad move by the goalie.

Rielly looks supremely confident right now. I've been of the opinion that he's gotten too much credit for the minutes he played compared to how well he does in them, but I have a feeling that he's going to have a huge year. To the point that he'll join the rather exclusive group of D-men who almost unanimously are called a #1D.

Same feeling here. A good thing too as he's maybe the most important player on our team.

I rarely miss a Leafs game but I watched the Jays last night. Thought I'd catch up on the comments this morning. All I have to say is "wow" about some of the comments. Some of you live and die with every shift and expect 100% perfection from the team and specific players at all times even in exhibition games.It's called drafting "and developing" for a reason. The drafting seems to be off to a good start and we have the right people in charge to take care of the developing. Just taking Marner as an example , he wasn't drafted to make the safe 10 foot passes all the time. The NHL has become a pin ball machine and you have to make plays through traffic when you have about half a second to do so and usually on bad ice. Here's a tip. He will not complete every pass and make the right decision every time.Even Gretzky didn't. But he will get better and better in doing so as time goes on. Highly skilled offensive players will fail in the offensive zone but a lot less so than less skilled players. They'll make plays that others can't. The game today is super fast with a ton of traffic almost all over the ice all the time. Understand this.

Nice post, couldn't agree more.

 

[deletethis]

Gardiner doesn't seem to have any hockey IQ. I have no idea why he thinks that the last five minutes of a game is the time to get cute with the puck and stop skating. I know it's pre-season, but he is such knucklehead.

Value of Gardiner's effortless puck movement over 60 minutes >>> The occasional brain glitches