Confirmed with Link: Toronto signs Mitch Marner to 6 year extension [10.893M AAV] Part 2

[Boutette]

Lets say there were multiple teams interested in Marner, and you could get 3-4 really good pieces back. Are you telling me that there are no combination of players available for trade that could makes the Leafs better than just having Marner at 10.893M?

Rich fantasy life you've got there.

 

[Mess]

Marner is overpaid. Yes.

Tampa players are underpaid

I guess one could conclude that good GMs are those that hand out contracts where the players appear to be underpaid and are overplaying their contracts providing greater value to the organization in a salary cap world.

It gives their teams a real competitive advantage against the competition for teams that overpay their players in an attempt to get similar production for much more cap usage.

In Marner's case only 4 forwards in the entire NHL make more $$ and 2 are his own teammates, which means the entire NHL are coming in below what Leafs are paying their top players.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Canes dont produce offense , how do I know? Canes were 16th last season in Goals For

What other players do that don't play with Aho/Marner has no relevance to this.

Morgan Reilly, Matthews, Tavares, are all goal scoring pt producers playing with them whether it be 5on5 or PP is going to boost your numbers....

Once again, Marner has barely played with Matthews at all over his ELC (only on the PP in one year, never at ES), and has only played with Tavares and for the most part Rielly for one year.

Canses dcore is good. But not good offensively.

This is not true. Canes have 3 D with more points than the Leaf's 2nd highest point producing defenseman, and their 4th is 1 point behind. There is also a lot of offensive benefit to having solid defensemen in general. You don't need to put up massive points as a defenseman to help drive offense.

 

[81Leafs50]

Except it has been proven to you multiple times by multiple people that he is clearly not.


What does Nylander have to do with anything? Marner has never played with Nylander.

Weird how you keep ignoring the 76-point winger that Aho played with.


Nylander is the 4th best forward on the Leafs.

SO once and for all.

Canes 16th in the NHL in Goals for.
Leafs 4th in the NHL in Goals for.

CAR top 5 scorers:
Aho 30 goals 83 pts
Teravainen 21 goals 76 pts
Williams 23 goals 53 pts
Ferland 17 goals 40 pts
Hamilton 18 goals 39 pts

Leafs top 5 scorers:
Marner 26 goals 94 pts
Tavares 47 goals 88 pts
Matthews 37 goals 73 pts
Reilly 20 goals 72 pts
Kapanen 20 goals 44 pts

You keep talking about how I some how forget to mention Teravainen.....thats because REILLY almost outscored him.

It is a joke of an argument to make, that Aho somehow had a good enough supporting cast to justify his numbers. The kid is unreal and is facing TOP dmen every night with NO HELP. PERIOD.

Aho at his cap number is better than Marner at his cap number. Facts are Facts. 31 GMs including Dubas would do a trade 1-for-1.

Stop lying to yourself.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Canes 16th in the NHL in Goals for.
Leafs 4th in the NHL in Goals for.

Team stat. Entirely irrelevant to the current discussion.

CAR top 5 scorers:
Aho 30 goals 83 pts
Teravainen 21 goals 76 pts
Williams 23 goals 53 pts
Ferland 17 goals 40 pts
Hamilton 18 goals 39 pts

Leasf top 5 scorers:
Marner 26 goals 94 pts
Tavares 47 goals 88 pts
Matthews 37 goals 73 pts
Reilly 20 goals 72 pts
Kapanen 20 goals 44 pts

Not sure why you keep mentioning players that have little to no relevance to Marner and Aho.

Marner - 94 points
Tavares - 88 points
Hyman - 41 points

Aho - 83 points
Teravainen - 76 points
Williams - 53 points
Neidereiter - 30 points in 36 games

Marner and Aho have comparable 2nd linemates to themselves, while Marner's line has a considerably worse 3rd linemate.

You keep talking about how I some how forget to mention Teravainen.....thats because REILLY almost outscored him.

You're leaving his best point-producing linemate out of a discussion about linemates and point production. You clearly don't like admitting that he only outscored his most common linemate by 7 points.

facing TOP dmen every night with NO HELP. PERIOD.

Except for the significant help that has been repeatedly pointed out.

Aho at his cap number is better than Marner at his cap number.

No, not really. Both are probably slightly overpaid.

31 GMs including Dubas woud do a trade 1-for-1.

Lol, no. You take Marner, the better player. Especially for a team that doesn't need centers.

 

[81Leafs50]

Team stat. Entirely irrelevant to the current discussion.


Not sure why you keep mentioning players that have little to no relevance to Marner and Aho.

Marner - 94 points
Tavares - 88 points
Hyman - 41 points

Aho - 83 points
Teravainen - 76 points
Williams - 53 points
Neidereiter - 30 points in 36 games

Marner and Aho have comparable 2nd linemates to themselves, while Marner's line has a considerably worse 3rd linemate.


You're leaving his best point-producing linemate out of a discussion about linemates and point production. You clearly don't like admitting that he only outscored his most common linemate by 7 points.


Except for the significant help that has been repeatedly pointed out.


No, not really. Both are probably slightly overpaid.


Lol, no. You take Marner, the better player. Especially for a team that doesn't need centers.

So you take the Canes over the Leafs then???

According to you they have tons of depth.

Will the Canes make the playoffs this season? for sure right??

 

[Dekes For Days]

So you take the Canes over the Leafs then???
According to you they have tons of depth.
Will the Canes make the playoffs this season? for sure right??

I didn't say any of those things. The quality of players that don't play with Aho or Marner have little relevance to Aho and Marner.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I didn't say any of those things. The quality of players that don't play with Aho or Marner have little relevance to Aho and Marner.

Not actually true as it dictates quality of competition faced. Ie better players on a team not playing with said player will dictate which pairing/shutdown line said player faces night in night out.

One of the many reasons player to player surface statistical comparison is a fools errand.

Just throw that grenade into the argument and see myself out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not actually true as it dictates quality of competition faced. Ie better players on a team not playing with said player will dictate which pairing/shutdown line said player faces night in night out.

Both have similar QOC over their ELCs, and it's been proven that linemate quality has a significantly bigger effect on production anyway.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Not actually true as it dictates quality of competition faced. Ie better players on a team not playing with said player will dictate which pairing/shutdown line said player faces night in night out.

One of the many reasons player to player surface statistical comparison is a fools errand.

Just throw that grenade into the argument and see myself out.

Marner faced harder QoC than Aho did last year. Staal did much of the heavy lifting for Carolina

 

[Confucius]

and overpaying for Marner by 1M-1.3M and maybe having him leave in 6 years is not possible?

Leafs dont have any cap space for a good backup. Louis Domingue will be waived and makes 1.2M and the Leafs cant claim him. Leafs have to play with a 20 man roster instead of a full 23 man roster.

You think the 20 man roster is a bad thing? None of Mathews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander averaged 20 minutes a game last year. Them having to play 22 or more minutes a game will be welcomed by all but maybe Babcock.

 

[Nineteen67]

You think the 20 man roster is a bad thing? None of Mathews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander averaged 20 minutes a game last year. Them having to play 22 or more minutes a game will be welcomed by all but maybe Babcock.

Why would they have to play more minutes per game?

 

[Whiskey In the Jar]

Toronto looks like a well built team for the longest time now, extremely good age structure. Should have realistic shot for the cup for handful of coming years. Even better, eastern teams such as tampa, wsh and boston are likely starting to get worse, tampa will probably have 1-2 strong seasons left then likely to start decline hard.

 

[Notsince67]

Lets say there were multiple teams interested in Marner, and you could get 3-4 really good pieces back. Are you telling me that there are no combination of players available for trade that could makes the Leafs better than just having Marner at 10.893M?

Now you understand.

 

[Legion34]

I guess one could conclude that good GMs are those that hand out contracts where the players appear to be underpaid and are overplaying their contracts providing greater value to the organization in a salary cap world.

It gives their teams a real competitive advantage against the competition for teams that overpay their players in an attempt to get similar production for much more cap usage.

In Marner's case only 4 forwards in the entire NHL make more $$ and 2 are his own teammates, which means the entire NHL are coming in below what Leafs are paying their top players.

Taxes.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Well Columbus was willing to pay the Four first round picks and marner wouldn’t sign it.

Contradicts many of the posters who guaranteed no team would ever do that.

Don’t worry negative Nancy’s the rest of the league realizes how good marner is

 

[stickty111]

Toronto looks like a well built team for the longest time now, extremely good age structure. Should have realistic shot for the cup for handful of coming years. Even better, eastern teams such as tampa, wsh and boston are likely starting to get worse, tampa will probably have 1-2 strong seasons left then likely to start decline hard.

Thanks for the kind words

 

[Confucius]

Why would they have to play more minutes per game?

Something similar to the 22nd and 23rd man being stapled to the press box all year. The 19th and 20th guys will probably never hit the ice. Yep they'll be that bad.

 

[AllDay28]

Taxes.

 

[Walshy7]

"the finger thing means the taxes!!!!"

one of my favorite simpsons jokes

 

[Boutette]

Why would they have to play more minutes per game?

Due to the team occasionally having to run with 10-11 forwards due to players missing games due to short term injuries, the flu etc. Just like any team that runs with 20-21 man rosters.

 

[Nineteen67]

Something similar to the 22nd and 23rd man being stapled to the press box all year. The 19th and 20th guys will probably never hit the ice. Yep they'll be that bad.

I doubt 19 and 20 will stapled to the bench.

 

[Confucius]

I doubt 19 and 20 will stapled to the bench.

Add in the guys Babcock will bench for not listening to instruction / screwing up etc. I expect at least 3 and maybe all 4 to avg 20 plus minutes a game.

 

[glue]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.tsn...-rantanen-on-long-term-deal-1.1368725?tsn-amp

 

[Xanner]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.tsn.ca/report-colorado-avalanche-eye-8-4m-8-75m-aav-for-rantanen-on-long-term-deal-1.1368725?tsn-amp

No wonder the deal isn't done yet, the avs want to significantly underpay him, in 4 years the cap could be inching towards the mid 90's and Rantanen would be losing a lot of money if he signs that deal.