Confirmed with Link: Toronto signs Mitch Marner to 6 year extension [10.893M AAV] Part 2

[ToneDog]

So Dubas was being a tactician when he gave a low ball offer last summer to Marner. Sly as a fox, that Dubas. Divert attention away from one of his boys not wanting to sign by giving him a reason not to sign. This is called a higher level of chess.

But some on this board said Dubas is playing chess while others are playing checkers

 

[Dekes For Days]

they could have signed Marner for 8.5x8 or so that very summer.

This was never an option, even in the fantasy land some people live in where unsubstantiated rumours half a year after the fact that make zero sense with everything else we know are confirmed fact.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

I didn't say any of those things. The quality of players that don't play with Aho or Marner have little relevance to Aho and Marner.

Dekes I've been following this and honest to God to me it seems really personal for this guy. He has a personal gripe with Marner for some reason.

 

[Notsince67]

This was never an option, even in the fantasy land some people live in where unsubstantiated rumours half a year after the fact that make zero sense with everything else we know are confirmed fact.

You also said that Marners attempt to use offersheet leverage failed due to his unreasonable ask. You also stated that everyone knew it would take 10.5MM to be successful. We now know he was offersheeted.

Curious you also cant explain what the low ball offer from Dubas was that Ferris publicly referred to.
Your so called unsubstantiated rumor was aired on tsn
$72M was discussion point prior to season for Marner, Maple Leafs - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Legion34]

You also said that Marners attempt to use offersheet leverage failed due to his unreasonable ask. You also stated that everyone knew it would take 10.5MM to be successful. We now know he was offersheeted.

Curious you also cant explain what the low ball offer from Dubas was that Ferris publicly referred to.
Your so called unsubstantiated rumor was aired on tsn
$72M was discussion point prior to season for Marner, Maple Leafs - Sportsnet.ca

Again the rumour was 5 months after the fact. Every other money deal came out early and before signing.

I can tell you “oh Man I would have sold you my car for 100 bucks last summer if you just asked”. But thats probably not actually true.

After the fact “what I would have done” isn’t real. Nothing. Is real until it is in writing.

Babcock was “going to” sign in buffalo......except he didn’t

 

[ACC1224]

Posted it in another thread but wanted to share my thoughts here.

If leafs would have overpaid Nylander and got him for 8-8.5x8 or so they could have signed Marner for 8.5x8 or so that very summer. Would have had both players signed for millions less AAV and for more term.


Hindsight is 20/20 but everyone and their mother knew Marner would explode in points, especially with tavares.

Think Ottawa learned from this and got their blue chip player Chabot tied up a year early on an 8x8.

They could have had Marner for that exact 8.5 x 8 but gambled by passing on it and lost.
No way he would have took that if they had first given it to Nylander though.

Live and learn I guess.

 

[Ulysses31]

This was never an option, even in the fantasy land some people live in where unsubstantiated rumours half a year after the fact that make zero sense with everything else we know are confirmed fact.

even if they signed him for 9 and nylander for 8 they would have still saved a mill roughly and have had more term on both players.

again this is hindsight, and im not saying i was saying to do this at the time

 

[Dekes For Days]

You also said that Marners attempt to use offersheet leverage failed due to his unreasonable ask.

If we are to believe the speculation about these offer sheets, I was right. He wanted unreasonable amounts at unreasonable term.

You also stated that everyone knew it would take 10.5MM to be successful. We now know he was offersheeted.

We do not know that he was offer-sheeted. We have speculation that offer-sheets were discussed. And since the two teams that are connected to that rumour could only do the four 1st compensation, we know that it would have been over 10.5m, so I was right again.

Curious you also cant explain what the low ball offer from Dubas was that Ferris publicly referred to.

Agents say anything they can to get better deals for their clients and themselves. There is no evidence that Dubas "low-balled" Marner, and based on the negotiations and the asks Marner was rumoured to be making, we have no idea what "low-ball" actually even means to Ferris.

Your so called unsubstantiated rumor was aired on tsn

1. Being aired on TSN means absolutely nothing in terms of whether it's true or not.
2. The rumour was not 8.5m x 8.

 

[Boutette]

even if they signed him for 9 and nylander for 8 they would have still saved a mill roughly and have had more term on both players.

again this is hindsight, and im not saying i was saying to do this at the time

delete

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Ink now long since dry on the contract and still tilting over windmills for unproven summer 2018 negotiations.
It’s over.
Move on.

 

[Dekes For Days]

even if they signed him for 9 and nylander for 8 they would have still saved a mill or so and have had more term on both players.

I don't think Nylander would take 8 if Marner was given 9 last year, and even if we go by those unsubstantiated numbers that make no sense, that would have massively screwed up negotiations with the rest of our RFAs and most importantly Matthews, our franchise and most important player who was miles ahead of either at that point. And all of you would have been on these boards blasting Dubas even more than you already do for overpaying his young stars based on unproven potential.

You're also speaking about this with 100% hindsight, without acknowledging the massive risk that would have been. The Leafs have the best roster they have had in decades with their core locked up for years, including some of the best players this franchise has ever seen about to enter their prime, and you're complaining about not giving blind over-payments a year ago that could have actually derailed this team's future.

 

[Ulysses31]

not blasting dubas btw, i think hes a good GM.

watching all of this closely over past year or so I have come to understand the importance of signing blue chip rfas as soon as possible, even if to do so requires slight over payments.

 

[Dekes For Days]

not blasting dubas btw, i think hes a good GM.

I know. I started replying before your edit and I wasn't talking about just you specifically. Some of that was more directed at others who have none of the information and every reason to be excited about what has transpired but can't let what-if scenarios that don't consider the possible ramifications go.

 

[Warden of the North]

Hes not overpaid. Hes just not. Neither is Matthews. Neither is Willy.

Players in the first half of their careers drive their teams to championships. Overpaying old guys is the problem.

 

[Notsince67]

Again the rumour was 5 months after the fact. Every other money deal came out early and before signing.

I can tell you “oh Man I would have sold you my car for 100 bucks last summer if you just asked”. But thats probably not actually true.

After the fact “what I would have done” isn’t real. Nothing. Is real until it is in writing.

Babcock was “going to” sign in buffalo......except he didn’t

So we have to believe that 5 months is significant to validate truth. Sell it to someone else

 

[Notsince67]

We do not know that he was offer-sheeted. We have speculation that offer-sheets were discussed. And since the two teams that are connected to that rumour could only do the four 1st compensation, we know that it would have been over 10.5m, so I was right again.

All the bs aside, this is the most egregious lie.
Marner claimed publicly that Dubas knew. Would he have an expectation that Dubas would now participate in this fraud....give me a break. You have lost all of the little credibility you had.

 

[Dekes For Days]

All the bs aside, this is the most egregious lie.

There has been no "bs" and no "egregious lies", except from you.

Marner claimed publicly that Dubas knew.

Where? I have not seen either speak publicly about this.

Regardless, I have no idea what you're even trying to argue, because the offer sheet rumours being right just confirms what I said...

You have lost all of the little credibility you had.

I have tons of credibility, because that's what happens when you support your claims with facts.

 

[Notsince67]

If we are to believe the speculation about these offer sheets, I was right. He wanted unreasonable amounts at unreasonable term.


We do not know that he was offer-sheeted. We have speculation that offer-sheets were discussed. And since the two teams that are connected to that rumour could only do the four 1st compensation, we know that it would have been over 10.5m, so I was right again.


Agents say anything they can to get better deals for their clients and themselves. There is no evidence that Dubas "low-balled" Marner, and based on the negotiations and the asks Marner was rumoured to be making, we have no idea what "low-ball" actually even means to Ferris.


1. Being aired on TSN means absolutely nothing in terms of whether it's true or not.
2. The rumour was not 8.5m x 8.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Mitch Marner’s agent shines light on offer sheets

You of course know about this but you will say anything to push your narrative.
Dubas knew. What you are pushing is a lie

 

[saffronleaf]

The Marner deal is undoubtedly a dramatic overpayment.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Man, some people are surprisingly naive in this thread.

 

[Vexed]

Personally I think the Leafs are ahead of the curve here on how salary caps should be structured. The NHL in general is brutal in this regard. Granted I know only time will tell so it seems like an easy cop out and maybe it is. But I think if they can keep from overpaying lesser talent, which now they will be forced to do, then I don't really have an issue going against the grain on how other teams cap manage.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Toronto Maple Leafs: Mitch Marner’s agent shines light on offer sheets

I still don't see Marner say anywhere that there were offer sheets presented to him. I see him say that he told Ferris from the start that he didn't want to entertain them. But again, it doesn't matter. Either way, what I've said is correct.

What you are pushing is a lie

I don't know what you think I'm "pushing", but I have not lied at all, and if the offer-sheet rumours are true, you are only confirming that what I said previously was true.

 

[Superstar]

Marner could have been offersheeted at the range of $9.5-$11 mil x 7 years...he wasn't going to sign that when the Leafs offered him more or same money in June. Even if he was offersheeted for $12 million x 7 (which I don't see it at all because 4 1st rounders are also involved), he would still earn less money than playing in Toronto at $11 million x 7 plus endorsements...not to mention those other teams can't give him that hefty signing bonus every July (which is taxed lower than salary)...you gotta be a dork to take that offersheet...and no way other teams are paying him $10 million plus for 3-5 years. Offersheets from a couple of other teams? Sure. But overpayment on those offersheets? No. Offersheeting an RFA is just not at the cost of money, otherwise many teams would do it, but also at the cost of future picks...so yeah, even a great player like Marner won't get massively overpaid in salary and picks by other teams...plus, there's the cap to deal with.

 

[IPS]

Aren't you guys f***ing sick of contract discussions by now? I don't know how you guys can keep continuing.

 

[hotpaws]

Personally I think the Leafs are ahead of the curve here on how salary caps should be structured. The NHL in general is brutal in this regard. Granted I know only time will tell so it seems like an easy cop out and maybe it is. But I think if they can keep from overpaying lesser talent, which now they will be forced to do, then I don't really have an issue going against the grain on how other teams cap manage.

what the team should have been focused on is not overpaying anyone

overpaying your top players isn't any different than overpaying your middle or bottom tier player since it accomplishes the same thing which is wasted cap space