Confirmed with Link: Torey Krug (7 years @ $6.5m)

[EastonBlues22]

Nitpick: a player first gains any kind of real leverage when they have the ability to file for arbitration. (They purportedly have it once they are RFA and can talk to other teams, but since other teams very rarely lob an offer sheet, that leverage is practically useless for the vast, vast majority of RFAs.) Even then, it's really arguing over $ and the player is rolling the dice that what they think they're worth will be more accepted by an arbitrator than what the team thinks he's worth. And, there's rolling the dice that what gets said in an arbitration hearing doesn't create ill will between the two sides - or, the team being so mean that the player goes Tommy Salo during the hearing.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with all of this.

Aren't the comparables used in arbitration limited to other pre-UFA players? Even that aspect heavily favors ownership, because the salary range almost never approaches what would be the open market value for that player's production. For most players, I don't think there's all that much leverage there. For McDavid and other elites, there's probably more...though you rarely see teams taking players like that to arbitration.

 

[pdavemoney]

He sure showed us. Wanted to stay in St Louis so much he signed in Vegas.

Hahaha. So because he didnt sign in St Louis to a lesser deal means that he is lying about the Blues being his first choice or preferred destination? How much hes willing to concede is for him to decide. How much money would you give up or how much security are you willing to sacrifice for your first choice in a job? For Petro, he wanted security and that was the tipping point, so it appears, even if it means leaving St. Louis.

 

[Celtic Note]

It's basically a power shift reversal from the first (and most productive) half of a player's career.

Player has zero say in who drafts his rights, and almost no bargaining power until whenever the team decides to offer a contract that buys out some UFA years. The only leverage the players has is to refuse to play...which is really no leverage at all, because he has a finite number of years as an athlete to make money, and wasting them hurts himself more than anyone, thus the majority of the risk falls on them. Teams have basically total control over every player that comes into the league for the best years of their career, and teams can dump said players at any point if they aren't happy with the players having no control over the situation.

Flip to the back half of a player's career, and a select few have enough talent and accomplishments to ask for a full NTC and expect to receive one from somebody on the open market. Not most players. Very, very few. And nobody is forcing any team to give it if they don't want...but they aren't going to be getting those elite players if they don't take that risk (assuming that clause is important to the player).

I have zero sympathy for management here. They have a sweet deal, and they know it. At some point they should be expected to shoulder some risks in a free market setting, and at some point players should actually have most or all of a say in where they play out the twilight of their career.

I could get behind this if it was for players across the league, but it’s only for a rare few who typically get paid pretty damn well.

Honestly the players who need this the most are the players who would never be considered to get it. It’s a rigged system just like the rest of capitalism where the top extracts from the rest.

So with that in mind I don’t care about the elite players or the management. Just like I don’t care about massive companies or C suite executives.

 

[pdavemoney]

And Army offered a modified NMC, so he was willing to budge as well. Bad optics on Petro's part to have a plane lined up and ready to go Vegas within the first 24 hours of free agency.

Bad optics? He's doing exactly what he needs to be doing on opening day of free agency, much like Armstrong did. I'm confused as to what you're getting at? I'm simply saying the man is probably telling the truth that he would prefer to stay in st louis. It just didnt work out.

 

[EastonBlues22]

And Army offered a modified NMC, so he was willing to budge as well. Bad optics on Petro's part to have a plane lined up and ready to go Vegas within the first 24 hours of free agency.

Why?

The Blues hadn't contacted him, and had no offer on the table. Vegas clearly contacted him, and it makes sense for Pietrangelo to at least see what they're about if they're the major bidder of the moment. Simply visiting isn't any sort of binding commitment. What were you expecting him to do? Just sit at home?

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but a modified NMC isn't a full NMC. Pietrangelo is the type of player that can ask for, and receive, a full NMC...and he did. It's not something Pietrangelo should need to compromise on just because it makes Armstrong uncomfortable. If Armstrong can't bring himself to match the market, that's on him.

 

[Celtic Note]

Nitpick: a player first gains any kind of real leverage when they have the ability to file for arbitration. (They purportedly have it once they are RFA and can talk to other teams, but since other teams very rarely lob an offer sheet, that leverage is practically useless for the vast, vast majority of RFAs.) Even then, it's really arguing over $ and the player is rolling the dice that what they think they're worth will be more accepted by an arbitrator than what the team thinks he's worth. And, there's rolling the dice that what gets said in an arbitration hearing doesn't create ill will between the two sides - or, the team being so mean that the player goes Tommy Salo during the hearing.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with all of this.

The RFA terms are pretty terrible for players. I really which it would change.

 

[Celtic Note]

Aren't the comparables used in arbitration limited to other pre-UFA players? Even that aspect heavily favors ownership, because the salary range almost never approaches what would be the open market value for that player's production. For most players, I don't think there's all that much leverage there. For McDavid and other elites, there's probably more...though you rarely see teams taking players like that to arbitration.

Again rigged system.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I could get behind this if it was for players across the league, but it’s only for a rare few who typically get paid pretty damn well.

Honestly the players who need this the most are the players who would never be considered to get it. It’s a rigged system just like the rest of capitalism where the top extracts from the rest.

So with that in mind I don’t care about the elite players or the management. Just like I don’t care about massive companies or C suite executives.

I agree that it's not fair to all players, and I wish that things were different, but I think it's more fair for some players to get it than none.

 

[Celtic Note]

I agree that it's not fair to all players, and I wish that things were different, but I think it's more fair for some players to get it than none.

I would rather no one get a NMC and the RFA age be reduced.

But that would be living in a world of fair and equitable pay. And that certainly isn’t the case. So, I am not sure why I waste my breath.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Aren't the comparables used in arbitration limited to other pre-UFA players? Even that aspect heavily favors ownership, because the salary range almost never approaches what would be the open market value for that player's production. For most players, I don't think there's all that much leverage there. For McDavid and other elites, there's probably more...though you rarely see teams taking players like that to arbitration.

Correct, it's only the [active] contracts for RFAs that are comparable. [If a contract would extend into years where the player would otherwise be eligible for UFA, the entire contract is put on the comparables sheet.] Like I alluded to (probably not completely), it's not complete leverage like if they were UFA, but it's more than when they're RFA without arbitration rights and management can say here's your qualifying offer, sign it. Oh, you didn't sign it? Go sit your ass on the couch at home, when you're ready to take about that much call us and we'll have a contract ready for you to sign.

 

[mike1320]

Why?

The Blues hadn't contacted him, and had no offer on the table. Vegas clearly contacted him, and it makes sense for Pietrangelo to at least see what they're about if they're the major bidder of the moment. Simply visiting isn't any sort of binding commitment. What were you expecting him to do? Just sit at home?

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but a modified NMC isn't a full NMC. Pietrangelo is the type of player that can ask for, and receive, a full NMC...and he did. It's not something Pietrangelo should need to compromise on just because it makes Armstrong uncomfortable. If Armstrong can't bring himself to match the market, that's on him.

The "market" being a single team that Petro had as #1 on his list. By all accounts he was going to hit free agency no matter what.

 

[TheDizee]

the family boy is really gonna have a fun time raising his family in the lovely and family friendly Las Vegas

very glad blues did not lock themselves into a 8 yr contract around those dollars for a player who turns 31 before the next season starts. that is how you end up becoming the maple leafs or blackhawks.

looking forward to Krug becoming a fan favorite and sending Kane into the glass. will actually be nice to have a Dman on PP who can actually hit the net on their shots more than 1/2 the time too.

 

[EastonBlues22]

He sure showed us. Wanted to stay in St Louis so much he signed in Vegas.

I'm willing to bet that if the Blues offered a comparable contract to Vegas (full NMC and the rest), he would be in St. Louis.

There's a lot of employees out there that are happy where they are and want to stay...but if someone offers a better deal, they're going to listen. They may take it to their employer to see if they'll match, but most are probably not going to make a lot of compromises and take an inferior deal just because their current employer, who could match the better offer, is "uncomfortable" doing so.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The RFA terms are pretty terrible for players. I really which it would change.

Again rigged system.

Remember, UFA used to not be until age 31 and then everyone overpaid for guys who were fairly consistently on the downside of their careers.

The status quo isn't likely to change any time soon: older players want to be paid for the years they got underpaid, and they outnumber younger players. Plus, owners have a vested interest in paying as little as possible for as much production as possible. [Though in reality, escrow gets HRR to 50/50 and so it's really complaining over how the pie gets sliced, forgetting to remember in the end the owners are getting half of it and the players are left to squabble with how they're dividing their half.]

 

[TheDizee]

I'm willing to bet that if the Blues offered a comparable contract to Vegas (full NMC and the rest), he would be in St. Louis.

There's a lot of employees out there that are happy where they are and want to stay...but if someone offers a better deal, they're going to listen. They may take it to their employer to see if they'll match, but most are probably not going to make a lot of compromises and take an inferior deal just because their current employer, who could match the better offer, is "uncomfortable" doing so.

27 not worthy of that special treatment and a good captain/leader would want that and say the exact thing. He is not a Hall of Famer like 2, 44 were. 27 is a good player that can help your team win when hes right but dont forget, when Yeo got fired up until Feb or so of cup winning year, he was a total trainwreck of a player. that is very likely going to be the future of his play as he regresses.

This is gonna turn into another Pujols situation but the main difference is that Albert is a 1st ballot HOF. 27 is just a very good player but not on that level. Blues dodged a big bullet here

 

[EastonBlues22]

The "market" being a single team that Petro had as #1 on his list. By all accounts he was going to hit free agency no matter what.

Pietrangelo's camp reached out to the Blues a long time ago to try to get a deal going. It was Armstrong who pushed the talks off.

How was that a signal he was going to hit FA "no matter what?" It only became inevitable when it became apparent that Armstrong wasn't comfortable meeting some of Pietrangelo's asks. You can't say those asks were unreasonable, either, because even a "single team" (maybe, or maybe not) market met those asks without being leveraged into them by some massive bidding war.

 

[Blueston]

I'm willing to bet that if the Blues offered a comparable contract to Vegas (full NMC and the rest), he would be in St. Louis.

There's a lot of employees out there that are happy where they are and want to stay...but if someone offers a better deal, they're going to listen. They may take it to their employer to see if they'll match, but most are probably not going to make a lot of compromises and take an inferior deal just because their current employer, who could match the better offer, is "uncomfortable" doing so.

I find it humorous that he claims mean Blues GM wouldn’t give him nmc which he needed bc he didn’t want to leave. So he left. Rather disingenuous. Seems real truth is he wanted more $ than we wanted to pay him. So he left. Which is fine. But it doesn’t make him Cesar Chavez.

 

[Mike Liut]

Krug really stood out in the cup. Glad to have him

 

[TheDizee]

I find it humorous that he claims mean Blues GM wouldn’t give him nmc which he needed bc he didn’t want to leave. So he left. Rather disingenuous. Seems real truth is he wanted more $ than we wanted to pay him. So he left. Which is fine. But it doesn’t make him Cesar Chavez.

remember that maple leafs article a few days ago, they had someone with knowledge to the situation just flat out state the obvious

"alex is not going to give a hometown discount to ANY team"

i dont got a problem with that, but he needs to drop the "oh i was blindsided by this and oh im a big family man" act. if im being perfectly honest only thing I will really miss about 27 is his durability, guy was actually tough as nails. wont miss him on PP though nor will I miss everyone drooling over him like hes the second coming of Pronger. Pronger was so much better than 27 (outside of taking dumb penalties) that it isnt even funny.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I find it humorous that he claims mean Blues GM wouldn’t give him nmc which he needed bc he didn’t want to leave. So he left. Rather disingenuous. Seems real truth is he wanted more $ than we wanted to pay him. So he left. Which is fine. But it doesn’t make him Cesar Chavez.

It seems just as disingenuous for Armstrong to say that he wants Pietrangelo to stay, and then refuse to give him a clause that would guarantee exactly that. Seems like Armstrong wanted to be sure that Pietrangelo was here only as long as Armstrong wanted Pietrangelo to be here, so Armstrong let him go.

See how that works?

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Can you guys imagine where we would be right now if Lehtera or Berglund had a NMC?

Berglund actually was supposed to have partial-ntc but failed to turn in his paperwork and list on time

 

[mike1320]

I find it humorous that he claims mean Blues GM wouldn’t give him nmc which he needed bc he didn’t want to leave. So he left. Rather disingenuous. Seems real truth is he wanted more $ than we wanted to pay him. So he left. Which is fine. But it doesn’t make him Cesar Chavez.

And he left in a hurry. Plus, there had to be something cooking for Army to run out and sign Faulk the way he did. There's not a GM in the league who would sign Faulk to that deal unless they were 100% sure Petro was hellbent on hitting free agency and had his demands written in stone.

 

[pdavemoney]

the family boy is really gonna have a fun time raising his family in the lovely and family friendly Las Vegas

very glad blues did not lock themselves into a 8 yr contract around those dollars for a player who turns 31 before the next season starts. that is how you end up becoming the maple leafs or blackhawks.

looking forward to Krug becoming a fan favorite and sending Kane into the glass. will actually be nice to have a Dman on PP who can actually hit the net on their shots more than 1/2 the time too.

Not sure if this post is sarcasm, but since 2015, give or take, Pietrangelo is actually quite a bit better than Krug at putting the puck on net, and he has a much better shooting percentage as well. His career shooting percentage is over 1 percent better in fact. I know Petro used to be a really poor shooter, but its probably his biggest area of improvement in the last 5 years. Hes one of the better goal scoring dmen in the league, and Krug is in for a rude awakening not playing with 50 goal scorers and 100 point players on his new team.
Not knocking Krug of course. I'm rooting for him and excited to see him play, but Petro is a much, much more complete player. This will hurt.

 

[Celtic Note]

Remember, UFA used to not be until age 31 and then everyone overpaid for guys who were fairly consistently on the downside of their careers.

The status quo isn't likely to change any time soon: older players want to be paid for the years they got underpaid, and they outnumber younger players. Plus, owners have a vested interest in paying as little as possible for as much production as possible. [Though in reality, escrow gets HRR to 50/50 and so it's really complaining over how the pie gets sliced, forgetting to remember in the end the owners are getting half of it and the players are left to squabble with how they're dividing their half.]

My complains are undoubtedly how the pie gets sliced and when it gets sliced. But I have no delusions that will change significantly any time soon.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

NMCs don’t make any sense at all.

Give out a full NTC, fine. But Armstrong is right about NMCs giving the player too much power. If a player ever declined and became bad enough that they need to be waived or something, then they don’t deserve to be completely protected from that.

If they become that bad, you still are stuck with the cap hit if you waive them because its doubtful anyone claims their contract in that case.

Nmc doesnt prevent you from buying the player out.

Nmc really isnt that much different from a FULL ntc except for expansion draft protection.

Many players however only have partial and not full no trade clauses.