Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense

[Erndog]

Then the Leafs have needs not priorities. If you believe this argument, ok. I don't believe this argument. In my opinion you have a priority and it's defense.

Well, we had Matthews and Kadri as C's and quite literally NOTHING else, so we needed a center. Whether it was Tavares/Bozak/someone, there was an actual NEED for a C to be signed.

At this point, the Leafs quite literally have 1 need. A dman. That's it. The forwards are cup caliber, the goaltending depth is, heck the defensive depth is as well. They just need that 1 dman to round out the group. It doesn't necessarily need to be a top tier dman either (as evidence by Vegas making the finals last year, Pitt winning the Cup 2 years ago, Carolina's Cup winning d-core, etc).

 

[Erndog]

It's also the strategy that sank the Islander's season last year and John Tavares happened to be the centerpiece of that failed strategy.

Hey, if you think the Leafs are going to sink and won't be acquiring any dman in the next 7 years then have at it.

I think you're in for a disappointment however.

 

[Rehabguy]

Well, we had Matthews and Kadri as C's and quite literally NOTHING else, so we needed a center. Whether it was Tavares/Bozak/someone, there was an actual NEED for a C to be signed.

At this point, the Leafs quite literally have 1 need. A dman. That's it. The forwards are cup caliber, the goaltending depth is, heck the defensive depth is as well. They just need that 1 dman to round out the group. It doesn't necessarily need to be a top tier dman either (as evidence by Vegas making the finals last year, Pitt winning the Cup 2 years ago, Carolina's Cup winning d-core, etc).

If that be the case then you will be fine. I don't know if I necessarily agree that you have defensive depth, but we will see.

 

[Rehabguy]

Hey, if you think the Leafs are going to sink and won't be acquiring any dman in the next 7 years then have at it.

I think you're in for a disappointment however.

They are not going to sink. They just won't win a Cup with that line-up.

 

[ACC1224]

Sorry this statement makes no sense. The word "priority" implies an order of decisions. Who states they priorities and goes to the bottom of the list of those priorities. A pretty stupid person IMO.

Priority was your word not mine. If you think they make a list and will only do things in the order that they wrote them in, that's on you.
They aren't making a cake here.
Could be you're projecting and are incapable of doing more than one thing at a time. I'm confident the Leafs management can think about and act on multiple things at the same time.

 

[ACC1224]

Honestly, I thought it was a stupid statement as well but then I thought of it and he's right.

Teams have multiple needs. EVERY team. You list them in terms of priorities, sure, say #1 through 5....

JUST because something is #1 doesn't mean you can't fill out #2 or #3 before that. #1 may not present itself at all during the offseason (for example). Doesn't mean you can't fill out #2/3/4/etc

OPPORTUNITIES exist and when they present themselves you go for it.

Surprised any of this needs to be stated.

 

[Sypher04]

It's also the strategy that sank the Islander's season last year and John Tavares happened to be the centerpiece of that failed strategy.

I have no current reason to think our defensive results won't be at least as good as last season which was a hell of a lot better than Isles so you have no point.

 

[Erndog]

They are not going to sink. They just won't win a Cup with that line-up.

But I think you have to wrap your head around the idea this was a long term play.

If the Leafs bow out in the 1st/2nd round this year and don't acquire a dman and the D still looks suspect, it doesn't mean you were right. It's not a "hey, see! I told you!".

They still have 6 more years! The idea was to build a Cup winner. The ingredients don't all come together in 1 summer. We've been building this thing for years now.

Like I said, if we don't win the Cup this year the Tavares signing was by no means a failure. Still 6 more years to get it right (and really, by getting it "right" I think we both agree it means acquiring a dman).

They will undoubtedly acquire a dman at some point. At that juncture it's take your shot with this lineup and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Rehabguy]

Priority was your word not mine. If you think they make a list and will only do things in the order that they wrote them in, that's on you.
They aren't making a cake here.
Could be you're projecting and are incapable of doing more than one thing at a time. I'm confident the Leafs management can think about and act on multiple things at the same time.

Eh? Again you're not making any sense. Did you or did you not use the word "priority" in post 364?

 

[Rehabguy]

But I think you have to wrap your head around the idea this was a long term play.

If the Leafs bow out in the 1st/2nd round this year and don't acquire a dman and the D still looks suspect, it doesn't mean you were right. It's not a "hey, see! I told you!".

They still have 6 more years! The idea was to build a Cup winner. The ingredients don't all come together in 1 summer. We've been building this thing for years now.

Like I said, if we don't win the Cup this year the Tavares signing was by no means a failure. Still 6 more years to get it right (and really, by getting it "right" I think we both agree it means acquiring a dman).

They will undoubtedly acquire a dman at some point. At that juncture it's take your shot with this lineup and let the chips fall where they may.

This is all true, but it is also 6 more years of Tavares contract hanging around your neck.

 

[Morbo]

It's also the strategy that sank the Islander's season last year and John Tavares happened to be the centerpiece of that failed strategy.

luckily we have much better management than you had last year, and more talent.

 

[Erndog]

This is all true, but it is also 6 more years of Tavares contract hanging around your neck.

Not even sure that's a bad thing considering we would have the majority of our core locked in.

2 years from now when Marleaus $6.25M comes off the books, that's still 5 years with JT and a 22 yr old Matthews and Marner. Plus now the $6.25M to hand out to a dman (if needed).

 

[Liminality]

This is all true, but it is also 6 more years of Tavares contract hanging around your neck.

Sounds like a great problem to have.

 

[Rehabguy]

Not even sure that's a bad thing considering we would have the majority of our core locked in.

2 years from now when Marleaus $6.25M comes off the books, that's still 5 years with JT and a 22 yr old Matthews and Marner. Plus now the $6.25M to hand out to a dman (if needed).

But you're going to have to give something up. Majority implies not everyone. Which great young player is going to be for grabs next year or the year following? Mariner?

 

[Erndog]

But you're going to have to give something up. Majority implies not everyone. Which great young player is going to be for grabs next year or the year following? Mariner?

Probably 1 of Brown/Kapanen/Hyman.

It sure as heck won't be Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares.

 

[Fogelhund]

But you're going to have to give something up. Majority implies not everyone. Which great young player is going to be for grabs next year or the year following? Mariner?

Of the core, we most likely don't need to give anyone up... unless a great trade to add a RHD to the core group... so really, just swapping one core, for another. Non-core players, we will have to move on, from time to time.

 

[Erndog]

Of the core, we most likely don't need to give anyone up... unless a great trade to add a RHD to the core group... so really, just swapping one core, for another. Non-core players, we will have to move on, from time to time.

Agreed. That's why I suggested Brown/Kapanen/Hyman. 1 will likely have to go at some point.

Of the core players, they will all be locked in long term to contracts within the next 12 months. Nobody will have to go.

Swapping Brown for a Grundstrom (for example) may even be an upgrade in some areas.

 

[Billerdzzz]

I see it. This should have been the Leaf's #1 priority not Tavares.

Not that I'm unhappy we signed him. lol

According to capfriendly.com, the Leafs have still have 13 mil US in cap space. That's still a
substantial amount, if they want to go after a solid D man.

 

[Rehabguy]

Probably 1 of Brown/Kapanen/Hyman.

It sure as heck won't be Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares.

That's an all offense core. Where's your defensive core? The argument the OP has made is valid. Time to get off the pot.

 

[Sypher04]

That's an all offense core. Where's your defensive core? The argument the OP has made is valid. Time to get off the pot.

Kadri, Rielly & Andersen are also clearly core players for us.

 

[Liminality]

That's an all offense core. Where's your defensive core? The argument the OP has made is valid. Time to get off the pot.

No team is perfect, the Leafs will be built more offensively just like how the Pens were built.
There's not one way to build a cup contender.

 

[Billerdzzz]

We could use a little snarl on our bottom pair in particular but we don't specifically need defensive defensemen. We just need good puck movers who are reliable in their own end imo. More two way defenders.

Whether an acquired physical D man is on the bottom pairing or top 4, I think he's a necessity.
Of course a bottom pairing guy isn't going to cost the Leafs as much, in terms of money or
what assets they'd have to give up.

But yeah, a good physical, solid bottom 5 or 6 Dman would help a lot.

Leafs D got pushed around way too often in the Bruins series loss. It was all too evident
that the Leafs need an upgrade in defense, if they're ever going to go all the way. The
playoffs are very rough.

 

[Erndog]

That's an all offense core. Where's your defensive core? The argument the OP has made is valid. Time to get off the pot.

Rielly, Dermott and hopefully Lilijgren. None of those guys are likely moving.

It's not perfect, but it's a pretty good start also.

 

[Rehabguy]

No team is perfect, the Leafs will be built more offensively just like how the Pens were built.
There's not one way to build a cup contender.

The Pens had Crosby and Malkin......

 

[Sypher04]

If that be the case then you will be fine. I don't know if I necessarily agree that you have defensive depth, but we will see.

Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Dermott, Hainsey, Carrick, Borgman, Rosen, Holl, Ozhiganov, even Marincin for a stint. That's 11 NHL capable defensemen. Some are no more than 5-6s but that's fine, it's still depth.