Confirmed with Link: [TOR/COL] Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen for Tyson Barrie (50% retain), Alex Kerfoot trade (continued)

[qqaz]

The Leafs have no assets on defence at the end of the season? I'm not sure I follow.Unless I'm mistaken, Rielly has 2 more seasons, Dermott is an RFA who likely comes cheap due to injury , Sandin and Lilejgren are both on their ELC's and there's at least 14 million in cap space available to work with. So that's at least 4 with the very real possibility at least one of Barrie or Muzzin comes back, not sure about Ceci though. I'm of the belief that they don't trade for Barrie unless they believe they can retain his services , I hope to be right.

Kadri played 7 full seasons with the Leafs, only 3 of them did he ever score over 20 goals and they were spaced by 3 seasons . That's hardly a "proven" 20/30 goal scorer by any means. He was never this offensive dynamo that people believed he was because while he did score 30 goals twice, its the exception rather than the rule. You want to keep Kadri over Kerfoot, despite there only being a 2 point difference last season, and the season prior Kerfoot scored 19 goals playing the 3rd line. Kerfoot is cheaper, younger by 4 years but most importantly, is better suited to the role . This move was better for the team, especially when you can't count on Kadri in the playoffs.

Kapanen and Johnsson both put up the same amount of points and scored more than he did and are on cheaper contracts. Kadri was expendable for a multitude of reasons

You crushed it with this post. Bravo.

Especially that last line. "Kadri was expendable for a multitude of reasons." I couldn't agree more. The fact that he was suspended in two consecutive first-round losses is somehow not getting enough attention in this thread. He couldn't be relied on. He was expendable. For cap reasons, for depth reasons, for slot allocations reasons, for track-record reasons, for trade value reasons, he was expendable.

And don't anyone go telling me that I'm a Kadri hater. I had him as my playoff avatar last year, and was raving about how he would be the difference for us against Boston.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You crushed it with this post. Bravo.

Especially that last line. "Kadri was expendable for a multitude of reasons." I couldn't agree more. The fact that he was suspended in two consecutive first-round losses is somehow not getting enough attention in this thread. He couldn't be relied on. He was expendable. For cap reasons, for depth reasons, for slot allocations reasons, for track-record reasons, for trade value reasons, he was expendable.

And don't anyone go telling me that I'm a Kadri hater. I had him as my playoff avatar last year, and was raving about how he would be the difference for us against Boston.

Yeah Kadri was my favourite player for years but there's no denying that his value has gone down and his value to our team specifically has gone down as well. Expendable for as he said, a number of reasons.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I've never once ignored Kerfoot's value in the trade. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Here's a direct quote:

Colorado was dealing from a position of strength on D and didn't really need Barrie. They turned him into a top 2 centre who has 30 goal upside with a sweetheart deal. If you only get one year of Barrie, that's a bad trade.

You can't say that without ignoring Kerfoot's value. There's literally no argument to be made where we only get Barrie, unless you ignore Kerfoot.

Kadri at his best is a very good shutdown centre who can play against top opponents. Kadri at his best can give you 30 goals and 50+ points. I don't think Kerfoot will ever do all those things. And may never do any of those things.

Kadri has never been a shutdown center. He's never shut down the opposition. They tend to score and create chances just like normally when they play him. Kadri was good because he could still push some offense even when facing good opposition. But lately the majority of his impact has come on the PP.

You're already seeing the impact in other spots in the lineup. Without Kadri, now you need matthews or Tavares to match up with the other team's top line. This often impacts that lines scoring as they have to focus more effort on keeping the puck out of the net. I believe this is hurting the Tavares line right now.

The Tavares line has the exact same role as it did last season.

We could have kept Gardiner and Kadri and be in a better spot organizationally.

Gardiner and Kadri combine for $8.5M, Kerfoot and Barrie for $6.25M. This scenario is not mathematically possible.

Kadri likely would have stayed here long term, so I don't think the length of his deal is the issue you're making it out to be.

If Kadri is staying here long-term, then we are extending a player into his 30's when he's already shown clear signs of regression.

If Barrie puts up 60 points for us for the next five years, then it'll be a good move.

In that scenario, we get #1 d-man value from Barrie while exchanging 3 years of Kadri for 4 years of Kerfoot, a good 3rd line center in his own right. If you classify that as just a "good move" then you are so far away from rationality that you might just never find your way back.

 

[meefer]

This discussion is fun!

 

[KuleminFan41]

You crushed it with this post. Bravo.

Especially that last line. "Kadri was expendable for a multitude of reasons." I couldn't agree more. The fact that he was suspended in two consecutive first-round losses is somehow not getting enough attention in this thread. He couldn't be relied on. He was expendable. For cap reasons, for depth reasons, for slot allocations reasons, for track-record reasons, for trade value reasons, he was expendable.

And don't anyone go telling me that I'm a Kadri hater. I had him as my playoff avatar last year, and was raving about how he would be the difference for us against Boston.

I like Kadri too, I honestly don't think there were many who disliked him, but he just wasn't a fit for this team anymore. Honestly, you weren't wrong in believing in Kadri's importance against Boston. The Leafs likely beat the Bruins in 6 if Kadri wasn't suspended . At least now with Kerfoot, you hopefully(and likely) get someone in a more stable frame of mind going against your rival in the playoffs. I , like many, wish there was a better outcome, but sometimes you have to make these types of moves in order to get better. I firmly believe the Leafs are a better team (at least on paper) this season than they were back in the playoffs.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

This is hands-down one of the best trades we made, and it was super-even for both sides! Both sides got what they wanted.

Although Kadri (IMO) had peaked and wasn't going to get any better, I do feel he's being underrated on here now. Could you imagine a line of Mikheyev - Kadri - Moore? That would be an absolute nightmare for other teams (dangerous offensively, defensively and physically for a 3rd line).

 

[Merrrlin]

Here's a direct quote:

You can't say that without ignoring Kerfoot's value. There's literally no argument to be made where we only get Barrie, unless you ignore Kerfoot.


Kadri has never been a shutdown center. He's never shut down the opposition. They tend to score and create chances just like normally when they play him. Kadri was good because he could still push some offense even when facing good opposition. But lately the majority of his impact has come on the PP.


The Tavares line has the exact same role as it did last season.


Gardiner and Kadri combine for $8.5M, Kerfoot and Barrie for $6.25M. This scenario is not mathematically possible.


If Kadri is staying here long-term, then we are extending a player into his 30's when he's already shown clear signs of regression.


In that scenario, we get #1 d-man value from Barrie while exchanging 3 years of Kadri for 4 years of Kerfoot, a good 3rd line center in his own right. If you classify that as just a "good move" then you are so far away from rationality that you might just never find your way back.

Wow, well thought out post. Nick made the cardinal Cyn of not underestimating his foe.

 

[The Iceman]

I always wondered if Kadri was truly a shut down Centre why did he never play PK for us?

 

[Legion34]

I always wondered if Kadri was truly a shut down Centre why did he never play PK for us?

Hes not fast enough really for PK. He also isn’t a great 5 on 5 C in his own zone.

What he is absolutely phenomenal at is being a shadow/pest for players around his size who he can just latch on to and piss off

He was great against Tavares. Crosby. Mcdavid. Even Bergeron to a degree.

He gets lost in transition. But if he just follows around a player and checks them hard. He is great. Drives guys absolutely nuts.

Like corson on yashin for older fans. Or Marchand against the Sedins.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Hes not fast enough really for PK. He also isn’t a great 5 on 5 C in his own zone.

What he is absolutely phenomenal at is being a shadow/pest for players around his size who he can just latch on to and piss off

He was great against Tavares. Crosby. Mcdavid. Even Bergeron to a degree.

He gets lost in transition. But if he just follows around a player and checks them hard. He is great. Drives guys absolutely nuts.

Like corson on yashin for older fans. Or Marchand against the Sedins.

Excatly. When it comes to shutting down one specific player Kadri is incredible at that. I've seen him play McDavid and Crosby to a stand still while here. Like you said he's not fast enough for the PK or is he above average at defending as a unit.

 

[Macallan18]

then you are so far away from rationality that you might just never find your way back.

love it!

 

[FreeBird]

I always wondered if Kadri was truly a shut down Centre why did he never play PK for us?

They tried it but he was a disaster

 

[The Iceman]

Rosen 1G 1A -5 after 2 games in the AHL this season.

 

[diceman934]

They tried it but he was a disaster

Stop it it was never tried and he could kill penalties as he is smart and understands the role.

 

[diceman934]

Here's a direct quote:

You can't say that without ignoring Kerfoot's value. There's literally no argument to be made where we only get Barrie, unless you ignore Kerfoot.


Kadri has never been a shutdown center. He's never shut down the opposition. They tend to score and create chances just like normally when they play him. Kadri was good because he could still push some offense even when facing good opposition. But lately the majority of his impact has come on the PP.


The Tavares line has the exact same role as it did last season.


Gardiner and Kadri combine for $8.5M, Kerfoot and Barrie for $6.25M. This scenario is not mathematically possible.


If Kadri is staying here long-term, then we are extending a player into his 30's when he's already shown clear signs of regression.


In that scenario, we get #1 d-man value from Barrie while exchanging 3 years of Kadri for 4 years of Kerfoot, a good 3rd line center in his own right. If you classify that as just a "good move" then you are so far away from rationality that you might just never find your way back.

So for two years he played against all the best lines in the NHL but he never was a shut down center. Please that is the definition of a shut down center. He was and is a shutdown center.

 

[kb]

Stop it it was never tried and he could kill penalties as he is smart and understands the role.

He showed Leafs nation exactly how smart he was the last 2 playoffs....you need to pay attention and think.

 

[kb]

So for two years he played against all the best lines in the NHL but he never was a shut down center. Please that is the definition of a shut down center. He was and is a shutdown center.

Oh brother.

Please keep up.

 

[diceman934]

He showed Leafs nation exactly how smart he was the last 2 playoffs....you need to pay attention and think.

That was pure passion.....as far as thinking goes you should try it some time.

 

[Boutette]

Stop it it was never tried and he could kill penalties as he is smart and understands the role.

He's played 51 minutes of on the penalty kill in his career. Most of this was between the ages of 23-25. The leafs had given up using him on the PK the last 3 years. When, you know, the team has been good.

 

[ITM]

So for two years he played against all the best lines in the NHL but he never was a shut down center. Please that is the definition of a shut down center. He was and is a shutdown center.

Stereotypically, the shut down center is/was the third line center, isn’t/wasn’t it?

I think Kadri was and is (in Colorado as well?) a second line center seen as having good two-way potential. Physical but not a game in game out game long grind down the opposition physical.

The experiment of weaponizing Kadri into a third line C didn’t materialize much as I’m sure we hoped it would.

But I don’t think mistaking Kadri for a Lehtonen type ever crossed my mind. Good player. Very good Leaf. Always tough to cast.

 

[ottomaddox]

This is hands-down one of the best trades we made, and it was super-even for both sides! Both sides got what they wanted.

Although Kadri (IMO) had peaked and wasn't going to get any better, I do feel he's being underrated on here now. Could you imagine a line of Mikheyev - Kadri - Moore? That would be an absolute nightmare for other teams (dangerous offensively, defensively and physically for a 3rd line).

No I cannot. That is what they said about him last season.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yes, I feel some people on here have trouble evaluating the GM objectively.

The evaluation is fairly simple IMO

- if he traded Kadri to win now; then he has to go all in and there are no excuses that team in young and other blah blah blah

- if people are saying that we are young; will make mistakes i.e. we are not a true contender; then trading a proven asset for a rental (Barrie) and an inferior player in Kerfoot is absolutely stupid

But am sure Dubas cult will find ways to defend dubas to no end.

 

[Legion34]

The evaluation is fairly simple IMO

- if he traded Kadri to win now; then he has to go all in and there are no excuses that team in young and other blah blah blah

- if people are saying that we are young; will make mistakes i.e. we are not a true contender; then trading a proven asset for a rental (Barrie) and an inferior player in Kerfoot is absolutely stupid

But am sure Dubas cult will find ways to defend dubas to no end.

Or secret option 3.

Dubas tried to “win now” with kadri and he was horrific for the entire year. He had no place
On the team when Babcock chose to use Tavares against top lines. They kept trying to force feed kadri in a role he couldn’t do.

So now they got a slightly cheaper and 5 year younger C and a top pairing RHD.

We got the best player in the deal. We also got the Youngest player who is under contract for the longest.

 

[1specter]

He showed Leafs nation exactly how smart he was the last 2 playoffs....you need to pay attention and think.

He also showed how the NHL has a double standard in 'discipline', but I digress..

 

[diceman934]

He's played 51 minutes of on the penalty kill in his career. Most of this was between the ages of 23-25. The leafs had given up using him on the PK the last 3 years. When, you know, the team has been good.

LOL most of that was seconds at a time. 51 whole minutes He was never tried on the PK why anyone would say otherwise is beyond me.....I am not going to check the minutes but he has played over 500 games. 51 minutes is not playing the PK at any time.