LeBrun: TOR/CAR Pt. 2

[GoldiFox]

Those teams won't give you that for Pesce

Darn it all to heck.... I guess the Canes will just have to hold onto their 24 year old top-4 D for the next 5 years at $4 million per year. Always unfortunate when a team is forced to hold onto their core homegrown assets.

 

[Liferleafer]

Huberdeau, Kyle Connor, Nik Ehlers, Sam Reinhart, Tarasenko, ROR, and Nick Schmaltz (pre injury). Just some examples with minor adds on other sides as needed. If the Canes could trade with the Canes then Teravainen might be enticing given his contract and recent production.

I appreciate the answer....and will say this, if the Canes are looking for that value, then the Leafs would be clearly out. The only 2 players on that list i see maybe being in the wheel house would be Reinhart/Schmaltz.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Wait...so all we keep reading is "1 for 1 of equal value for Pesce"...so, let's see what equal value is? Post some examples so we know what we need to offer.

I've posted lists like this maybe 4 times in this thread alone. These are the caliber of player that the Canes would want in return for Pesce.

Nylander (after July 1), Kadri, Ehlers, Rakell, Gallagher, Couturier

We aren't trying to get McKinnon or Pastarnak. These players are clearly below that level but they are productive, relatively young but with a track record (Couts and Kadri are a bit older than what is ideal but whatever), and have some cost certainty.

If those type of players aren't attainable by trading Pesce then we don't trade him. We have no reason to otherwise. No hard feelings. No one on the Canes forum wants to see Pesce go so it's not of any urgency whatsoever.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

As a Leafs fan, this is becoming a disgrace! I haven't seen a single Canes fan say the guy is Bobby Orr. All they want is package that doesn't give them back what they already have. We all want to improve our teams and what we are currently offering guarantees nothing for them. I don't want to move a top 6 forward and they have no reason to move him for anything less. The Leafs need to figure out who they can get that will help without losing any contributing forwards this season.

This is very well reasoned and should be an acceptable ending point that it doesn't make sense for either team today, so kudos to that. But for some reason it'll be ignored in favour of "oh MA gawwdd you want Crosby+McDavid then."

 

[SaskCanesFan]

Lmao holy crap. And its leafs fans who get accused of overvaluing their players?

I'd love to hear you explain, from the Canes point of view, why they should move Pesce for less than those players quoted.

 

[Roboturner913]

Since Pesce is soooo good you guys should keep him, and trade Slavin.

Oh yeah, Pesce gets carried by Slavin. Overrated.

Pesce plays with Faulk, not Slavin

At least attempt to know something about it

 

[TBF1972]

This ain’t rocket surgery.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I appreciate the answer....and will say this, if the Canes are looking for that value, then the Leafs would be clearly out. The only 2 players on that list i see maybe being in the wheel house would be Reinhart/Schmaltz.

I actually thinks that's a pretty bad list. Most of those are big reaches for Pesce in terms of value.

Huberdeau if traded would fetch more than Pesce for sure

Connor is still an RFA and having a great year. He'll be signed to a big time deal

Reinhart, see Connor

Tarasenko, see Huberdeau

ROR, is having an excellent year and STL has no reason to trade him

Schmaltz is the type of player that we would want but only has one more year on his RFA status, he'll be locked up as long as he continues his progression

It would be a player who is young, good, but not amazing and already locked up at a reasonable rate. The team trading him would be able to lose him and not open up a giant hole.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Before the acquisition of Muzzin, Pesce was the only piece available to solve the Leafs' short and long term issues perfectly. Rightie, complimentary 1st pairing quality, excellent defensively in transition/possession, and signed to a long term, cheap deal with no trade protection. If the Leafs got him, they'd put him with Rielly to anchor their defense for the next half decade while immediately improving their defense now for the 2019 playoffs. And the Hurricanes (and the fans here) were very well aware of this. It's why Waddell reportedly never backed down from Pesce for Nylander straight up, Carolina had all the leverage. Dubas had to chose between Pesce for Nylander or overpaying Nylander, including, symbolically, bonuses to the effect that he did not take a pecuniary hit for holding out.

With the acquisition of Muzzin, who can play the right side, they aren't nearly so desperate for a short term stop gap. Long term, Pesce is perfect in every way save they need to give to get him, but they now have time to hope Liljegren develops, or they get a Lovejoy for cheap, or whatever.

The Leafs have more leverage now than they did in November 2018, but not enough that the 'Canes will give up Pesce for Kapanen + Johnson, ie two 40+ point wingers. The deals I see are centered around Faulk and Kapanen, and Pesce and Kadri+, and if that isn't good enough, so be it.

 

[The S5]

Lmao why? You have so many top defenders in the system right lol

Why does Toronto brass continue to scout Carolina? Because they have what you need. Dubas knows it, Babcock knows it and so do Leafs fans. Their team defense is based on Freddy playing out of his mind. They need grit and a solid back liner.
You may not like the price, and that is fine, but to respond to every post with "lol" or "lmao" is juvenile and embarrassing for you.

 

[patriotfan]

Pesce for Johnsson would be a terrible move for Carolina. There’s no way around it. I don’t care if you add pieces to even out the value. If he’s the main piece coming back that’s a bad trade. Doesn’t matter if we have other good defensemen. After Slavin, Pesce is the next best defenseman in our team and he’s on a sweetheart of a deal. He can’t move for anything short of a great deal - a one for one for a comparable forward talent.

leafs don't want pesce they want Hamilton that's it, why don't you hurricanes fan understand, no pesce leafs don't want another zeitzev, hes not any better, if the canes have such great dman how come they are always at the bottom of the standings, I rest my case......

 

[The S5]

Before the acquisition of Muzzin, Pesce would solve the Leafs' short and long term issues perfectly. Rightie, complimentary 1st pairing quality, excellent defensively in transition/possession, and signed to a long term, cheap deal with no trade protection. If the Leafs got him, they'd put him with Rielly to anchor their defense for the next half decade while immediately improving their defense now for the 2019 playoffs. And the Hurricanes (and the fans here) were very well aware of this. It's why Waddell reportedly never backed down from Pesce for Nylander straight up, Carolina had all the leverage.

With the acquisition of Muzzin, who can play the right side, they aren't nearly so desperate for a short term stop gap. Long term, Pesce is perfect in every way save they need to give to get him, but they now have time to hope Liljegren develops, or they get a Lovejoy for cheap, or whatever.

The Leafs have more leverage now than they did in November 2018, but not enough that the 'Canes will give up Pesce for Kapanen + Johnson, ie two 40+ point wingers. The deals I see are centered around Faulk and Kapanen, and Pesce and Kadri+, and if that isn't good enough, so be it.

I don't think Muzzin can play the right side, or at least doesn't want to. He is now moved down to a second pairing and on the left. He is fine for what he is, an average second pairing D. After the first game where he laid some hits, he has gone relatively quiet. Don't think for a second that Dubas isn't still looking for a shut down RD. But, for the price most fans are willing to pay, they are looking at TVR or Faulk, not Pesce.

 

[Fogelhund]

Before the acquisition of Muzzin, Pesce would solve the Leafs' short and long term issues perfectly. Rightie, complimentary 1st pairing quality, excellent defensively in transition/possession, and signed to a long term, cheap deal with no trade protection. If the Leafs got him, they'd put him with Rielly to anchor their defense for the next half decade while immediately improving their defense now for the 2019 playoffs. And the Hurricanes (and the fans here) were very well aware of this. It's why Waddell reportedly never backed down from Pesce for Nylander straight up, Carolina had all the leverage.

With the acquisition of Muzzin, who can play the right side, they aren't nearly so desperate for a short term stop gap. Long term, Pesce is perfect in every way save they need to give to get him, but they now have time to hope Liljegren develops, or they get a Lovejoy for cheap, or whatever.

The Leafs have more leverage now than they did in November 2018, but not enough that the 'Canes will give up Pesce for Kapanen + Johnson, ie two 40+ point wingers. The deals I see are centered around Faulk and Kapanen, and Pesce and Kadri+, and if that isn't good enough, so be it.

Some fine arguments, except Muzzin hasn't played the Right Side for the Leafs, and never really did for the Kings either... that'a s bit of a myth. Muzzin will replace Gardiner next year, and the result being, still a need for RHD.

I'm still one of the few Toronto fans, more than happy to give up value for Pesce, and even expand the deal.

Nylander + 2020 2nd for Pesce + Koukkanen + Gauthier, after July 2nd, once Nylander's bonus has been signed. (As a negotiation start point)

 

[go comets]

I can understand the Leafs not wanting to give up one of their young core forwards, that is why they made the move for Muzzin.

I can also see why the Canes do not want to move a young Defenseman on a great contract unless they are overpaid.

Its not a big deal, i said weeks ago that these two teams are young, improving and not in a position to get rid of young players. they simply are too much alike. neither are rebuilding.

The canes changed things up last summer, and it has paid dividends, 1 point outta a playoff spot. the trade for Nino a few weeks ago has negated the Canes needing another forward at this point.

Leafs fans are making idiots out of themselves after years of that team being as mediocre as it gets and claiming the canes are a mediocre team when in fact the canes have had much more success in the past 20 years.....

 

[patriotfan]

He didn’t say it would be a 1 for 1. Be honest with yourself, besides this trade based stuff most fans around the league have no clue who Brett Pesce is. He’s not exactly a standout player in the league.

well said dude, like I said on another post, if the canes have such great dman how come they are always on the bottom of the standings, I don't like pesce, hes another zeizev that's it...give it a rest already leafs are interested in Hamilton that is it..

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

leafs don't want pesce they want Hamilton that's it, why don't you hurricanes fan understand, no pesce leafs don't want another zeitzev, hes not any better, if the canes have such great dman how come they are always at the bottom of the standings, I rest my case......

You may want to make a better case before resting.

Leafs fans keep making threads about Pesce while I’ve seen numerous say they aren’t interested in Hamilton because he isn’t what they need which is completely fair to say. Can’t recall seeing a single Hamilton to Toronto thread.

Zaitsev and Pesce aren’t comparable at all as players or in terms of skill level and value.

Defense can’t make up for poor goaltending and a lack of goal scoring no matter how good it is. Take a look at the canes rosters from the past few seasons - the defense has never been the problem.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don't think Muzzin can play the right side, or at least doesn't want to.

Some fine arguments, except Muzzin hasn't played the Right Side for the Leafs, and never really did for the Kings either... that'a s bit of a myth. Muzzin will replace Gardiner next year, and the result being, still a need for RHD.

I read in the trade board thread he could play the right side. Which I assumed was true, because if it weren't the case why the hell did they give up so much get him?? Their issue is their right depth, which is: Ron MF Hainsey (geriatric and off hand!), Zaitsev (and don't think other fans don't notice a team with trash right depth wants to get it's "best" right hander off the team asap), AHL'er...

Nylander + 2020 2nd for Pesce + Koukkanen + Gauthier,

Deal.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't think Muzzin can play the right side, or at least doesn't want to. He is now moved down to a second pairing and on the left. He is fine for what he is, an average second pairing D. After the first game where he laid some hits, he has gone relatively quiet. Don't think for a second that Dubas isn't still looking for a shut down RD. But, for the price most fans are willing to pay, they are looking at TVR or Faulk, not Pesce.

Muzzin played left on the top pairing too, and he is most certainly better than an average second pairing D-man. His first game was also nowhere near his best game.

And if Dubas is looking for a shutdown RD to play in a top four role, he's not looking at TvR or Faulk.

 

[CheMxDawG]

I read in the trade board thread he could play the right side. Which I assumed was true, because if it weren't the case why the hell did they give up so much get him?? Their issue is their right depth, which is: Ron MF Hainsey (geriatric and off hand!), Zaitsev (and don't think other fans don't notice a team with trash right depth wants to get it's "best" right hander off the team asap), AHL'er...

Anyone who said this is mistaken

 

[Nithoniniel]

Anyone who said this is mistaken

Yeah. It was pretty much Muzzin saying that he'd be willing to try it out. He's been a LD all his career, including for us.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Guys, this thread is not about '67 or 2002 or who's got the better chance at a cup now. Please stick to the topic.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Anyone who said this is mistaken

Why did you have to remind me that Steve Simmons is a human being that exists?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Muzzin played left on the top pairing too, and he is most certainly better than an average second pairing D-man. His first game was also nowhere near his best game.

And if Dubas is looking for a shutdown RD to play in a top four role, he's not looking at TvR or Faulk.

Anyone who said this is mistaken

Neat.

Pesce will save your season and anchor your top pair with Rielly for the next 5 years and possibly beyond. GTFO outta here with Kapanen and Johnson, they can't save your season....

 

[patriotfan]

You may want to make a better case before resting.

Leafs fans keep making threads about Pesce while I’ve seen numerous say they aren’t interested in Hamilton because he isn’t what they need which is completely fair to say. Can’t recall seeing a single Hamilton to Toronto thread.

Zaitsev and Pesce aren’t comparable at all as players or in terms of skill level and value.

Defense can’t make up for poor goaltending and a lack of goal scoring no matter how good it is. Take a look at the canes rosters from the past few seasons - the defense has never been the problem.

keep thinking like that, I always heard defence wins championships, well if that was the case the canes awesome defence has them always at the top of the standing awesome defence. give it a rest dude your is just average at best that's it