Proposal: Tor-Ana Nylander for Montour swap

[zeke]

If Kapanen manages to hit his ceiling as useful middle six winger, he still wouldn't be as valuable as the top 4 RHD Montour is today, and given his development trajectory it's fair to suggest Montour has the remaining upside to push that gap even wider - it's not even close as is.

what trajectory?

if Kapanen is only a borderline top 6 forward at age 23, like Montour was a borderline top 4 dman at age 23, I'll be very disappointed.

 

[zeke]

Lol keep him

If he was any good he'd be a regular in the NHL by now, he reminds me of shinkaruk

interesting comp.

except that Kapanen is younger, bigger, much faster, good defensively and on the PK, and twice as productive in the AHL.

so.....not so interesting, actually.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

For a team that can’t score to save their lives, they have to cough up more for a stud like Nylander who has more than a decade worth of elite career left.

 

[Spazkat]

what trajectory?

if Kapanen is only a borderline top 6 forward at age 23, like Montour was a borderline top 4 dman at age 23, I'll be very disappointed.

Since you're so big on statistics, you are probably aware that forwards and defensemen generally have different career trajectories especially in relation to the age they enter the NHL full time. Defensemen typically enter the NHL later and peak later then forwards- many are just hitting their best years at 26-27 when forwards are already starting to decline. A 23 year old defensemen just graduating to the NHL is fairly typical. A forward in that same situation has probably staring to be looked at as fringe or a tweener

 

[HoweHullOrr]

salty much?

so the 80+ % voting are biased, but the one guy who agrees with you isn't? bye now

Mostly Leaf fans ....... possibly ........

 

[zeke]

Since you're so big on statistics, you are probably aware that forwards and defensemen generally have different career trajectories especially in relation to the age they enter the NHL full time. Defensemen typically enter the NHL later and peak later then forwards- many are just hitting their best years at 26-27 when forwards are already starting to decline. A 23 year old defensemen just graduating to the NHL is fairly typical. A forward in that same situation has probably staring to be looked at as fringe or a tweener

that's a difference that isn't really backed up by the stats, actually.

it is somewhat true of defensive guys without much prospect stock (like anaheim prospect manson), but not really true of puckmoving higher profile prospects (like Anaheim prospects lindholm, Fowler, vatanen, gardiner who were all well established and more productive top 4 dmen by montour's age).

 

[Menzinger]

Outside of McD I can’t think of any. Even McD got players coming back. Please tell me the last top 4 Defenseman going for futures strictly. No players coming back. Expiring contracts and cap dumps don’t count also

I’ll wait.....

Hamonic last summer....

A younger Hamilton to a couple seasons ago

McDonagh Traded for a quantity package just recently.

Again, the claim that a Nylander level young player is he only asset you can trade for a d man is a falsehood, and easily disproven.

 

[Sniper99]

Boards say otherwise? Leaf fans keep making proposals for other teams RHD. I just saw one of y’all ask for dumba in a new proposal. This is a fair trade and a fair swap.

Not even close to a fair swap, Jesus.

 

[LordZapp]

Hamonic last summer....

A younger Hamilton to a couple seasons ago

McDonagh Traded for a quantity package just recently.

Again, the claim that a Nylander level young player is he only asset you can trade for a d man is a falsehood, and easily disproven.

You have no idea what your talking about.

 

[Menzinger]

You have no idea what your talking about.

It was a package of lesser value assets for a single quality one. How is it anything but that? It wasn’t a one for one, quality for quality deal.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Lol keep him

If he was any good he'd be a regular in the NHL by now, he reminds me of shinkaruk

Obviously, keeping him is my choice too. He reminds me of St. Louis.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Not a TOR fan, and I think they tend to overrate Nylander, but in this case, they are right to say no. Maybe not the horrendous overpayment they think it is, but is is lopsided enough to say no to.

Essentially how I view it as well.


Though I think it's a trade that would look very good for the Leafs in 2 years time despite not being great right now.

I don't see a lot more upside to Nylander but I do think Montour has another level to his game.

 

[Scott Stevens]

interesting comp.

except that Kapanen is younger, bigger, much faster, good defensively and on the PK, and twice as productive in the AHL.

so.....not so interesting, actually.

Mason Raymond 2.0

 

[4thline]

Firstly- the poll needs a "close enough as a base but Ducks need to add option"

Secondly- it's crazy how a player can be so over rated and under rated at the same time. It's pretty simple, Kasperi Kapanen is not a lock to be a good top 6-/borderline 1st line winger but his potiential to do so is very real. His trade value doesn't get credit for something that hasn't happened, but at the same time that upside has value, else all prospects and young still developing players not be near the commodity they are.

And don't kid yourself- he does have that potential. He's not a Nylander/Marner, and getting compared to them and caught behind them on the depth chart has done him no favours. But writing off a kid coming off his U21 and U22 seasons with his tools as a ceiling "useful middle 6" as if he's some 25 year old that's been yo-yo'd for years is silly.

 

[Stephen]

It was a package of lesser value assets for a single quality one. How is it anything but that? It wasn’t a one for one, quality for quality deal.

Tampa fans always like to go on about how the McDonagh deal barely subtracted anything of value from their system.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

interesting comp.

except that Kapanen is younger, bigger, much faster, good defensively and on the PK, and twice as productive in the AHL.

so.....not so interesting, actually.

Lmao.... Shinkaruk was also near ppg when he was 20 and was over hyped by Canucks fans, although kapanen is way more overhyped I think they're both pretty much the same, highly touted skilled kids who struggle to make it to the big league

Kapanen will not get you anything worth getting as of right now so stop with putting him out there for actual nhlers

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Essentially how I view it as well.


Though I think it's a trade that would look very good for the Leafs in 2 years time despite not being great right now.

I don't see a lot more upside to Nylander but I do think Montour has another level to his game.

I mean that is fair to hold that opinion though I question why you think Nylander doesn't have much upside to his game left but Montour does.

 

[analytics]

For a team that can’t score to save their lives, they have to cough up more for a stud like Nylander who has more than a decade worth of elite career left.

They scored more goals this season than: Dallas, Edmonton, NY Rangers, Chicago, Carolina, St. Louis, Ottawa, Calgary, Vancouver, Detroit, Montreal, Arizona, and Buffalo.

They did this with Derek Grant playing 1C for over 20 games due to lengthy injures to all of the above at the same time: Getzlaf, Kesler, Lindholm, Fowler, Vatanen, Eaves, and more.

 

[Skolman]

I’d do this but instead build the package around Kapanen, 1st for Montour

Kapanen is overrated by Leafs fans

 

[analytics]

that's a difference that isn't really backed up by the stats, actually.

it is somewhat true of defensive guys without much prospect stock (like anaheim prospect manson), but not really true of puckmoving higher profile prospects (like Anaheim prospects lindholm, Fowler, vatanen, gardiner who were all well established and more productive top 4 dmen by montour's age).

You are constantly and repeatedly ignoring the fact that regardless of his age, he had only played 27 games in the NHL before age 24. Cam Fowler for example had played 345 regular season games and 32 playoff games by the same age.

His career trajectory shouldn't be compared to people with several hundred additional NHL games by the same age, it's an entirely different league.

Bottom line he scored 32 points, +16, 20+ mins a night in a top-4 role with an eite blueline on a playoff team in his Rookie season.

If this was a Toronto prospect, his perceived value would be somewhere in the stars.