Top 5 Positionally

[YNWA14]

He had 2 assists against PSV and earned the penalty that Lewandowski scored against Real Madrid. "He did nothing" indeed, Robben generally is doing absolutely nothing if he isn't scoring or assisting.

What context are you looking for? It's not hard to look those things up yourself -- or better yet, watch the games. Anyone watching Dybala vs. Real Madrid and Robben vs. Real Madrid can easily see the difference in who was more dangerous but okay. We'll pretend like Dybala was more easily marked out of a game because Juventus is "weaker" than Bayern (or Serie A is better than the Bundesliga)...or something. Because Roma and Juventus have done such a good job marking Robben out of the game over the last couple of years, he'd definitely have struggled.

 

[Live in the Now]

He had 2 assists against PSV and earned the penalty that Lewandowski scored against Real Madrid. "He did nothing" indeed, Robben generally is doing absolutely nothing if he isn't scoring or assisting.

What context are you looking for? It's not hard to look those things up yourself -- or better yet, watch the games. Anyone watching Dybala vs. Real Madrid and Robben vs. Real Madrid can easily see the difference in who was more dangerous but okay. We'll pretend like Dybala was more easily marked out of a game because Juventus is "weaker" than Bayern (or Serie A is better than the Bundesliga)...or something. Because Roma and Juventus have done such a good job marking Robben out of the game over the last couple of years, he'd definitely have struggled.

Whoscored credits him with 0 assists in the CL. As for the rest...



Did you read anything I said at all? Or can you understand it? This level of misinterpretation is actually incredible.

Serie A has a better tactical approach to defense than the Bundesliga. Teams there from 1-20 are more capable at marking players out of the game. Not only that but you seem to not understand that Dybala plays #10, where two DM or three players are marking him.

Then I said the players were about equal but it seems like you don't understand that either.

 

[YNWA14]

Transfermarkt is better for stats for the most part (for example actually crediting earned penalties).

Your hyperbole is "incredible". You talked about the top teams in Italy being better at marking players out of the game yet Robben has had no issue producing against the Italian teams he's faced (where you inferred he'd more easily get marked out just because Dybala does). Robben has consistently produced against the toughest teams regardless of whether they're in the Bundesliga or CL so I really don't think that it'd be an issue (and maybe watch a lot of Robben's contributions in most games to see if you think the number of players marking him is some kind of issue in favour of Dybala).

I also never commented on you saying they were "about equal" so I don't see what it is that I supposedly misunderstood.

 

[les Habs]

Soccernet and WhoScored both have Robben at 0 assists in the CL.

 

[Live in the Now]

Transfermarkt is better for stats for the most part (for example actually crediting earned penalties).

Your hyperbole is "incredible". You talked about the top teams in Italy being better at marking players out of the game yet Robben has had no issue producing against the Italian teams he's faced (where you inferred he'd more easily get marked out just because Dybala does). Robben has consistently produced against the toughest teams regardless of whether they're in the Bundesliga or CL so I really don't think that it'd be an issue (and maybe watch a lot of Robben's contributions in most games to see if you think the number of players marking him is some kind of issue in favour of Dybala).

I also never commented on you saying they were "about equal" so I don't see what it is that I supposedly misunderstood.

No, you just really don't know anything about Italian football at all. Bear in mind I also called Dybala overrated. That you bring up someone's performances against Roma really makes me laugh. You can get from stats that they have a good defense if that's what you want to think in your head. In reality regardless of manager, Roma attack every game even if overmatched and that's why they lose big to teams like Bayern. Robben or Dybala or Messi or Ronaldo or anyone scoring against them really doesn't prove anything whatsoever.

That you would bring up Roma as proving anything shows that you're just looking at stats instead of knowing anything about the subject. You should try watching leagues or educating yourself before diving into the deep end with your shorts off.

Enjoy your night.

 

[YNWA14]

How rich. The ol' "you don't agree with me, therefore you don't know anything" approach.

Italian teams are better at marking out players (and you specifically referred to the top Italian teams) and therefore my bringing up Roma and Juventus not being able to mark out Robben proves my ignorance of Italian football.

You are making an assumption with 0 basis (that Robben would have a harder time scoring in Italy because Dybala has a hard time scoring there) when in fact Robben has never been troubled by Italian teams (the best ones, at that).

Don't let me interrupt your high horse trot though. You are the expert on every league, and every player after all.

 

[Live in the Now]

How rich. The ol' "you don't agree with me, therefore you don't know anything" approach.

For the record you came in with that approach to other people immediately.

Italian teams are better at marking out players (and you specifically referred to the top Italian teams) and therefore my bringing up Roma and Juventus not being able to mark out Robben proves my ignorance of Italian football.

Nope, you can't read. I said Dybala doesn't score often against top teams. I also called him overrated because of that. Then I said that Italian TEAMS (not top teams, TEAMS) are more capable at marking. Then in another post I said 1-20.

I also want to point out because Dybala is starting to get overrated, and because nobody here watches Italian football, that he only had one good game against the top teams in Italy. Italian teams are simply much more capable at marking top players out of the game, and it would have been interesting to see Robben play there at some point because the same thing would have happened to him.

You are making an assumption with 0 basis (that Robben would have a harder time scoring in Italy because Dybala has a hard time scoring there) when in fact Robben has never been troubled by Italian teams (the best ones, at that).

It it not remotely a bad assumption. Regardless of that, Dybala doesn't have a hard time scoring there comparative to his position. He plays #10. I said he does not have good games against top teams in Italy. You are drawing all kinds of other conclusions to that comment, which says something about your comprehension level. Just look up what other wide players score like in that league over the last ten years. You can point out Robben playing well against Juve and Roma all you want, that's not league play. More to the point Dybala played better against Barcelona than any big game any other player besides Ronaldo played all season. Regardless of that, Dybala and Robben are about equal. Why they're being compared when playing two different positions is extremely confusing, but you flew in saying that a wide forward outproduced a #10 for god knows what reason.

Don't let me interrupt your high horse trot though. You are the expert on every league, and every player after all.

No, I willingly admit to not knowing much of anything about Ligue 1 or Dutch football, or many other leagues. It's not like we're talking about players from small leagues here. Every football fan should know them very much.

But I do gamble on this sport, which is why I always seem to be around during the big games for years in case anyone was wondering. So yes, I do know the difference between big leagues. Especially Italy and Germany, and watching the CL as well. Especially because if I don't, I will have much less extra money in my pocket. I like having more money than I get from my job. I have no idea why you say some of this stuff, like talking about somebody not watching a 33 year old player who's played in multiple WC, CL, EC, Premier League, La Liga, BL. Really ridiculous.

 

[Luigi Habs]

Yawn

 

[YNWA14]

You also said that Salah is better than Robben was at the same age, but eh.

But anyway this is pointless, like the notion that Dybala is a '10' because whoscored puts that on their formation map while he spends most of his time floating out to the right side of the field and is mostly goal oriented (he also loses the ball twice as much and has twice as many bad touches as Robben, and creates less chances and has less touches though that last part can be attributed to team style). Dybala is as much a 'forward' as Robben is.

As for my comprehension..."because nobody here watches Italian football, that he only had one good game against the top teams in Italy. Italian teams are simply much more capable at marking top players out of the game" That's an interesting inference (that nobody but presumably you watched Italian football, which I do) and when you specify top teams and then continue with that sentence I don't see where there's a distinction from say Roma and Juventus in their ability to mark players out of the game. Separate your thoughts if you'd like to be clear (as you did say 1-20 later, but in what way does that exclude top teams in Italy?). I'm not sure if you know but drawing the conclusion that you think top teams in Italy mark players out of the game better when you say 'teams in Italy' and refer to '1-20' isn't some kind of stretch, or is it? Maybe I'm reading it wrong -- maybe the top teams in Italy are excluded from 1-20.

What basis is there for saying Robben would have struggled to score/produce in Italy? He's played 6 games against teams from Italy since 2010 (including Juventus 3 times, and Mourinho's Inter 2 times) and has 3 goals and 3 assists (scoring and/or assisting against each of them), and these are the very best Italy has to offer.

 

[Suiteness]

Please enlighten me.

You can't compare a horse that pulls carts to a horse from the race track.

 

[YNWA14]

You can't compare a horse that pulls carts to a horse from the race track.

It's not really the same thing. Both Kante and Modric have similar goals for their team. Kante is far more than just a guy who 'runs and tackles'. Still, you can measure the impact a player has on their team relative to others from their position even if they're not going about it in the same way. It's not a direct comparison of how they are going about doing it.

A horse pulling a cart and a horse in a race aren't even playing the same game, so to speak.

 

[Live in the Now]

You also said that Salah is better than Robben was at the same age, but eh.

But anyway this is pointless, like the notion that Dybala is a '10' because whoscored puts that on their formation map while he spends most of his time floating out to the right side of the field and is mostly goal oriented

Do you even watch Juve? Just because a player plays one way against Barcelona doesn't mean that's how they play all season. This is absolutely ludicrous.

As for Salah, last season he only scored two goals less than Robben's ever scored in a league campaign. It stands to reason he will eventually score more.

(he also loses the ball twice as much and has twice as many bad touches as Robben, and creates less chances and has less touches though that last part can be attributed to team style). Dybala is as much a 'forward' as Robben is.

Players in a slower league touch the ball less. Players in the middle lose the ball more. Nothing surprising about any of this.

As for my comprehension..."because nobody here watches Italian football, that he only had one good game against the top teams in Italy. Italian teams are simply much more capable at marking top players out of the game" That's an interesting inference (that nobody but presumably you watched Italian football, which I do) and when you specify top teams and then continue with that sentence I don't see where there's a distinction from say Roma and Juventus in their ability to mark players out of the game. Separate your thoughts if you'd like to be clear (as you did say 1-20 later, but in what way does that exclude top teams in Italy?). I'm not sure if you know but drawing the conclusion that you think top teams in Italy mark players out of the game better when you say 'teams in Italy' and refer to '1-20' isn't some kind of stretch, or is it? Maybe I'm reading it wrong -- maybe the top teams in Italy are excluded from 1-20.

No point in being clear as everything gets misinterpreted. For the record Dybala scored more league goals in 15-16 than Robben has ever scored in a season.

What basis is there for saying Robben would have struggled to score/produce in Italy? He's played 6 games against teams from Italy since 2010 (including Juventus 3 times, and Mourinho's Inter 2 times) and has 3 goals and 3 assists (scoring and/or assisting against each of them), and these are the very best Italy has to offer.

If you do not see that Serie A is a more defensive league than the Bundesliga (this season a little less, because Roma and Napoli were both powerful), I honestly cannot help you with that. And there is nothing I can say to change your mind either, so it's best to leave it at that.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I didn't say you've never seen him play, but saying that Dybala is better than Robben is stretching things. He's not on a healthy Robben's level -- not that it's a shot at him, very few players are. Dybala didn't carry Juve to the final come on now; Robben doesn't play further up the pitch than Dybala either. If you want to talk about this season look at their relative performances against Real Madrid -- Robben was probably the only threat for Bayern while Dybala was a ghost. Dybala had 4 goals in 11 CL games; Robben had 3 goals and 3 assists in 8. Keep in mind that Robben was injured again this year and is 33. Dybala has been getting overrated lately. Yes, he's a fantastic talent and one of the better forwards in the world but no he's not better than Robben.

Do Juve make it to the final without his performance against Barca? Age doesn't matter considering we are talking about who's better today not when they're 20.

Robben plays as a forward while Dybala under Allegri is a creative midfielder.

I also want to point out because Dybala is starting to get overrated, and because nobody here watches Italian football, that he only had one good game against the top teams in Italy. Italian teams are simply much more capable at marking top players out of the game, and it would have been interesting to see Robben play there at some point because the same thing would have happened to him.

Dybala is not overrated... i'm the only who hypes him up here. Hell he was compared to Paco last summer.

You also said that Salah is better than Robben was at the same age, but eh.

But anyway this is pointless, like the notion that Dybala is a '10' because whoscored puts that on their formation map while he spends most of his time floating out to the right side of the field and is mostly goal oriented (he also loses the ball twice as much and has twice as many bad touches as Robben, and creates less chances and has less touches though that last part can be attributed to team style). Dybala is as much a 'forward' as Robben is.

As for my comprehension..."because nobody here watches Italian football, that he only had one good game against the top teams in Italy. Italian teams are simply much more capable at marking top players out of the game" That's an interesting inference (that nobody but presumably you watched Italian football, which I do) and when you specify top teams and then continue with that sentence I don't see where there's a distinction from say Roma and Juventus in their ability to mark players out of the game. Separate your thoughts if you'd like to be clear (as you did say 1-20 later, but in what way does that exclude top teams in Italy?). I'm not sure if you know but drawing the conclusion that you think top teams in Italy mark players out of the game better when you say 'teams in Italy' and refer to '1-20' isn't some kind of stretch, or is it? Maybe I'm reading it wrong -- maybe the top teams in Italy are excluded from 1-20.

What basis is there for saying Robben would have struggled to score/produce in Italy? He's played 6 games against teams from Italy since 2010 (including Juventus 3 times, and Mourinho's Inter 2 times) and has 3 goals and 3 assists (scoring and/or assisting against each of them), and these are the very best Italy has to offer.

Speaking of not watching players play.

Dybala is definitely not goal oriented. Many players in the Serie A outscored him last season. Yet, it's clear he's the best and most important player in the league. Why? Because he provides much much more than goals.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Dybala is not overrated... i'm the only who hypes him up here. Hell he was compared to Paco last summer.

If I've learned anything from this board, it's that one person hyping a player apparently makes him overrated forum-wide.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Serie A had slightly higher scoring per game than the Bundesliga last year actually. The average Bundesliga team scored 1.433 goals per match while the average Serie A team scored 1.478 goals per match. The style of play in Serie A is certainly still more deliberative than in the Bundesliga, but I'd say the league has generally started to turn more sophisticated offensively while the Bundesliga remains a pressing battle.

 

[Cassano]

Dybala is overrated in the sense that people like to compare him to Neymar lol.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Dybala is overrated in the sense that people like to compare him to Neymar lol.

I watch them week in and week out... they're not far off.

 

[Cassano]

I watch them week in and week out... they're not far off.

Eh, this is where I think he gets overrated. Neymar is 3rd best in the world at worst, Dybala is maybe top 3 at Juventus/Serie A.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Eh, this is where I think he gets overrated. Neymar is 3rd best in the world at worst, Dybala is maybe top 3 at Juventus/Serie A.

Maybe, top 3 at Juve and the Serie A? I'd love to see who can you have ahead go him. If it's Pipita don't bother.

LITN is Dybala still overrated?

 

[Cassano]

Maybe, top 3 at Juve and the Serie A? I'd love to see who can you have ahead go him. If it's Pipita don't bother.

LITN is Dybala still overrated?

On Juve I think Sandro/Bonucci/Alves were better. In any case, I wouldn't put it against anyone ranking him 1-3, just depends on what you're looking for. It's arguable.

And no, Higuain definitely not up there lol.

On the other hand there is no argument of leaving Neymar out of top 3 footballer on the planet. This is the discrepancy between the two players and the fact that they're compared as some equals astonishes me.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

On Juve I think Sandro/Bonucci/Alves were better. In any case, I wouldn't put it against anyone ranking him 1-3, just depends on what you're looking for. It's arguable.

And no, Higuain definitely not up there lol.

On the other hand there is no argument of leaving Neymar out of top 3 footballer on the planet. This is the discrepancy between the two players and the fact that they're compared as some equals astonishes me.

Yeah, you were better off with Pipita. You have a guy who played less than half the games in the league.

Not surprised it astonishes you as you're clearly over hyping how good Neymar is. Someone here was claiming that he was the best player in the world... nothing surprises me on this board anymore. Playing well in a high profile game sets the benchmark for a players entire season. Truth is Suarez and Lio had better season than Neymar. As did Dybala.

 

[Peen]

Alves played like 3 games yet was better than Dybala?

 

[Cassano]

Yeah, you were better off with Pipita. You have a guy who played less than half the games in the league.

Not surprised it astonishes you as you're clearly over hyping how good Neymar is. Someone here was claiming that he was the best player in the world... nothing surprises me on this board anymore. Playing well in a high profile game sets the benchmark for a players entire season. Truth is Suarez and Lio had better season than Neymar. As did Dybala.

If you can't see how much better Neymar is than Dybala, there's no helping you.

Alves played like 3 games yet was better than Dybala?

Alves was godly in Europe last year. Well up until he faced Real Madrid. Lol. Fine, you can toss in Buffon. In any case, I think it's arguable whether he's top 3.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

If you can't see how there's no argument to be made for anyone on Juve or in the Serie A there's no helping you.

As I said one or 2 high profile games is what anyone remembers. Mostly due to the fact nobody is watching the games.

 

[Live in the Now]

If I've learned anything from this board, it's that one person hyping a player apparently makes him overrated forum-wide.

I definitely wasn't talking about this board, because players from Italy are almost always underrated on this board. Hamsik for example is never mentioned as elite even though the last few years he's been on fire. Insigne, Salah, Manolas, Icardi, Felipe Anderson, Keita Balde, Belotti (loved here but nobody else seems to know or care about him), Suso, and Callejon are some other obviously underrated players there.