Flyers' History: Top 10s in Flyers history and other recollections

Normand Lacombe

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Lacroix was a top 6 C for the Flyers for multiple seasons. I wouldn’t call him a flash in the pan.

That’s what I get for not looking up Lacroix’s stats before posting. :confused: Led the Flyers in scoring for two consecutive seasons in 1968-69 and 1969-70.

Here’s a flash in the pan from the pre-Cup days. Dick Sarrazin. Scored 16 goals, 30 assists for 46 points in 54 games as a rookie in 68-69. Sarrazin would only tally 9 more NHL points after that season.
 
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Kermit the Prog

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a potential #1 Dman when broke into the league, but never ending defensive lapses eventually knocked him down to more of a 4/5 guy for most of his NHL career

9. Bobby Taylor G
Going old school with this one. Taylor was a top flight #1 in junior and the Flyers thought he had a good shot to be the same at the NHL level. He got off to a very good start during his rookie year of 72-73, but a very serious leg injury robbed him of a lot of his mobility and he spent the rest of his career as a seldom used backup. By 1975 he was the Flyers 3rd string goalie and after one more season as the same in Pittsburgh, he was out of the league

Just an aside, but seeing Chief's name reminded me of the time the Flyers were to play a nationally televised game against, I believe, the Boston Bruins, in the 1970s. Fred Shero was starting Taylor instead of Bernie Parent. The network suits were apoplectic, asking why Shero wasn't starting arguably the best goalie in the league against a premier opponent in a national showcase game. Shero, in his inimitable way said, "Because it's his turn."

Love The Fog.
 
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rinaldo

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Not feeling great today, so without any in depth research, here are my 10 most notable flashes in the pan in Flyers history. They are listed in no particular order:

1. Ron Flockhart C
Fans of a certain age will remember “Flocky Hockey” Flockhart made moves that turned opposing D into pretzels. However his refusal to use his linemates and to play any semblance of D quickly derailed his career

2. Al Hill LW
When you score 5 points in your first NHL game, you’re gonna get noticed. However Hill quickly regressed into a generic 4th line player who spent much of his career in the AHL. He was though, a pretty decent bottom 6 player for coach Pat Quinn from 79-81

3. Len Hachborn C
Hachborn looked like he had potential to be a decent scoring line pivot when he first broke in, but his so-so D play turned coach Mike Keenan against him and he faded into obscurity

4. Todd Bergen C/RW
Bergen was called up during the 84-85 season and proceeded to give the team a huge offensive lift both in the regular season and in the playoffs. He hated playing for Keenan though and when GM Bob Clarke approached him that summer about a new deal, Bergen shocked him, and us fans, by letting him know that he was giving up hockey for golf.

5. Jiri Latal
Latal looked like he had top 4 potential during his rookie year, but teams quickly realized that he shied away from contact and Latal was soon back in Europe

6. Brent Fedyk LW
Fedyk was a so-so wing in the Detroit system who had played well for his AHL coach, Bill Dineen. Dineen suggested that GM Farwell acquire Fedyk and he was put on a line with rookie Eric Lindros and Mark Recchi. Fedyk had a career year playing on the crazy 8s line but 2 years later he was on the 4th line and not too long later, he was out of the NHL.

7. Roman Cechmanek G
Cecho put up Bernie Parent like numbers during his first couple seasons with Philly, but he didn’t always do well in the playoffs and he never got along with his teammates. After a short stint with LA, he was back in Europe.

8. Joni Pitkanen D
Pitkanen looked like a potential #1 Dman when broke into the league, but never ending defensive lapses eventually knocked him down to more of a 4/5 guy for most of his NHL career

9. Bobby Taylor G
Going old school with this one. Taylor was a top flight #1 in junior and the Flyers thought he had a good shot to be the same at the NHL level. He got off to a very good start during his rookie year of 72-73, but a very serious leg injury robbed him of a lot of his mobility and he spent the rest of his career as a seldom used backup. By 1975 he was the Flyers 3rd string goalie and after one more season as the same in Pittsburgh, he was out of the league

10. Ville Leino RW
Leino was a late season acquisition from Detroit during the 09-10 season. Mainly acquired to add a little speed and depth he was put on a line near seasons end with Danny Briere and Scott Hartnell. That line was the best line in the NHL during the 2010 postseason and Leino got a big FA contrast from Buffalo that summer. Leino ended up a huge disappointment in Buffalo and was out of the league before completing his deal.

Feel free to add some more, this was really just off the top of my head
Only true flash in the pan in that group is Bergen; hackborn and lieno to an extent. Others either had no real stint in the nhl or did have an extended stint. Cechmanek and Pitkannen is laughable as a flash in the pan. Flockhart had 328 points in 453 games.

ives racine had a very good year for the flyers never duplicated that again. Greg hawgood , acquired with beranek, also never found success after the flyers.
 
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Philly Fanatik

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I am still bitter about that Rangers trade because I knew Graves was going to be good. When the Rangers hired Keenan I said Graves would be a 50-goal scorer.
I see Graves play his junior with the Spits and he would have been a dandy Flyer!
A perfect 200 ft player and all the attributes of a young Clarke clone...
 
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Nizzle

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10. Ville Leino RW
Leino was a late season acquisition from Detroit during the 09-10 season. Mainly acquired to add a little speed and depth he was put on a line near seasons end with Danny Briere and Scott Hartnell. That line was the best line in the NHL during the 2010 postseason and Leino got a big FA contrast from Buffalo that summer. Leino ended up a huge disappointment in Buffalo and was out of the league before completing his deal.
I truly appreciate this topic and this might sound like nitpicking but Leino signed with the Sabres one year later. 2010-2011 he was still with the Flyers and had 53 (19+34) points in 81 games.
 
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Captain Dave Poulin

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I think the 86 draft is pretty interesting. Not as big names actually, but the Flyers had picks 21 and 23 and took a Canadian defenseman (Kerry Huffman) and a Finnish winger (Jukka Seppo). In between the Red Wings took a Canadian forward, Adam Graves. Graves would have been the perfect Flyer. They also had pick 28 (Kent Hawley), who went just ahead of Teppo Numinen. Numinen and Graves over Huffman/Seppo would have made a titanic difference.

Teppo is in my top five all-time favorite non-Flyers. I would have killed to have him with us.

Yzerman
Trevor Linden
Pavel Bure
Teppo

... something like that.
 

baudib1

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Teppo is in my top five all-time favorite non-Flyers. I would have killed to have him with us.

Yzerman
Trevor Linden
Pavel Bure
Teppo

... something like that.

My favorite non-Flyer from that era was Jeremy Roenick, then he became a Flyer and he wasn't as good as he used to be, then he retired and became a creepy goofball.

But yeah Bure and Linden are high on my list too. I loved those Canucks teams.
 

Kermit the Prog

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Teppo is in my top five all-time favorite non-Flyers. I would have killed to have him with us.

Yzerman
Trevor Linden
Pavel Bure
Teppo

... something like that.

Tom Lysiak was my favorite non-Flyer:

51KwEH2CQoL._SY445_.jpg
 

Captain Dave Poulin

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How sick is it that Fedorov, Bure and Mogilny were on the same line in (Russian equivalent of) juniors?

I remember a fastest skater competition at the All-Star Game where Fedorov barely beat Mogilny. But Bure was probably the fastest of the three?

Definitely, at least by any measure we could make without some kind of equipment. Bure played as fast (in every sense) as any player I can remember. He was a joy to watch, especially when you consider that he wasn't part of an organization I hated.
 

BiggE

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Definitely, at least by any measure we could make without some kind of equipment. Bure played as fast (in every sense) as any player I can remember. He was a joy to watch, especially when you consider that he wasn't part of an organization I hated.
The only guys that I’ve seen that played the game as fast as Bure were/are:

Bobby Orr
Yvan Cournoyer
Connor McDavid
 

Kermit the Prog

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The only guys that I’ve seen that played the game as fast as Bure were/are:

Bobby Orr
Yvan Cournoyer
Connor McDavid

When #4 was on the ice (which seemed like 59 minutes every game), I'd getting a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach, thinking, "Oh no, something's going to happen."
 
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baudib1

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One of my favorite seasons in NHL history is Bure's 2000-01 season with the Panthers. He scored 59 goals for a team that only totaled 200 on the year. For comparison, when Gretzky scored 92 goals, the Oilers had 417. Brett Hull scored 86 goals on a team that had 310. The fewest amount of goals the Caps have scored in Ovechkin's 8 50-goal seasons is 235.

The next-highest scorer on the Panthers had 14 goals, 37 points.
 

baudib1

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To bring it back to the Flyers, Terry Murray got fired as coach of that offensively inept Panthers team that had only Bure.

Terry Murray is a dunce.
 
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Normand Lacombe

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@MiamiScreamingEagles or @BiggE, I have several questions concerning the Bob McCammon and Pat Quinn merry go round.

First, were McCammon and Quinn the only two candidates considered to replace Shero? Do you recall any other names being rumored?

Second, following McCammon's underwhelming first stint as coach, why was he bought back late in the 1981-82 season to replace Quinn? According to Jay Greenberg, Ed Snider was fuming watching the Rangers beating the Flyers and made the decision himself to fire Quinn over Keith Allen's objections. @BiggE , I believe, wrote that Quinn was fired because of the possibility of meeting the Rangers in the playoffs, but were there other issues at play? It was so late in the season, why not wait until after the season to fire Quinn?

Finally, why were McCammon's teams so bad in the playoffs? After a quick look at the box scores of those 1982 through 1984 playoff games, I noticed a pattern of the Flyers scoring the first goal in some of those games and then the Rangers and Capitals scoring 3 or 4 goals to put the game out of reach.

My apologies for the many questions, but I have always been curious about this era of Flyer history.
 
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BiggE

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@MiamiScreamingEagles or @BiggE, I have several questions concerning the Bob McCammon and Pat Quinn merry go round.

First, were McCammon and Quinn the only two candidates considered to replace Shero? Do you recall any other names being rumored?

Second, following McCammon's underwhelming first stint as coach, why was he bought back late in the 1981-82 season to replace Quinn? According to Jay Greenberg, Ed Snider was fuming watching the Rangers beating the Flyers and made the decision himself to fire Quinn over Keith Allen's objections. @BiggE , I believe, wrote that Quinn was fired because of the possibility of meeting the Rangers in the playoffs, but were there other issues at play? It was so late in the season, why not wait until after the season to fire Quinn?

Finally, why were McCammon's teams so bad in the playoffs? After a quick look at the box scores of those 1982 through 1984 playoff games, I noticed a pattern of the Flyers scoring the first goal in some of those games and then the Rangers and Capitals scoring 3 or 4 goals to put the game out of reach.

My apologies for the many questions, but I have always been curious about this era of Flyer history.
Whew, that’s a lot of questions, lol.

When Shero bolted for the Rags, three replacements were considered: McCammon, Quinn and assistant coach Terry Crisp. I don’t recall them giving any serious consideration to anyone else. McCammon was the only one that had head coaching experience at any level and that gave him a leg up on the other 2. Quinn, realizing this, took the job coaching the Flyers AHL affiliate to get that experience.

Other than his struggles against the Rangers and the fact that the Flyers were in a mini slump, I don’t know of any other reason for Quinn’s dismissal. Bobby Clsrke, who was also serving as an assistant coach as a player, was shocked by the firing. McCammon was having a lot of success coaching in the AHL at that time and I suppose that might of factored in, but looking back, firing Quinn was a horrible move.

Why were McCammon’s teams so bad? Not sure there is one simple answer to that one. In 82, the Flyers D was thin and banged up and the smaller, but much faster Rangers, badly exposed them. The 83 team really should have won, but the Flyers got some pretty poor goaltending during that series and McCammon was outcoached. Finally in 84, the Flyers were badly in need of some young legs (which would come next year), but I also think a lot of players simply quit on McCammon who was reviled by much of the team.
 

MiamiScreamingEagles

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@MiamiScreamingEagles or @BiggE, I have several questions concerning the Bob McCammon and Pat Quinn merry go round.

First, were McCammon and Quinn the only two candidates considered to replace Shero? Do you recall any other names being rumored?

Second, following McCammon's underwhelming first stint as coach, why was he bought back late in the 1981-82 season to replace Quinn? According to Jay Greenberg, Ed Snider was fuming watching the Rangers beating the Flyers and made the decision himself to fire Quinn over Keith Allen's objections. @BiggE , I believe, wrote that Quinn was fired because of the possibility of meeting the Rangers in the playoffs, but were there other issues at play? It was so late in the season, why not wait until after the season to fire Quinn?

Finally, why were McCammon's teams so bad in the playoffs? After a quick look at the box scores of those 1982 through 1984 playoff games, I noticed a pattern of the Flyers scoring the first goal in some of those games and then the Rangers and Capitals scoring 3 or 4 goals to put the game out of reach.

My apologies for the many questions, but I have always been curious about this era of Flyer history.

Good answer above. No need to apologize in asking questions, we add dialogue on the board in such ways.

Shero wanted a more significant role in player personnel and was offered a job with the Rangers. He was "traded" to NY.

The names generally accepted for a replacement were Terry Crisp, Bob McCammon, Pat Quinn and I seem to remember Larry Hillman who coached the Cup-winning Winnipeg team in the WHA and who played for the Flyers in the team's infancy.

Crisp was an assistant coach under Shero. McCammon was a successful coach at the AHL. Quinn had completed his first year as an assistant under Shero. He was the replacement for Barry Ashbee, a D-man coach under Shero, who had succumbed to leukemia during the 1977 playoffs. Quinn had a relationship with Keith Allen and despite no history with the Flyers, became an assistant immediately following his playing days with the Atlanta Flames.

Hence, the script was written.

McCammon was a favorite with Ed Snider. Young (late 30s), smart and disciplined. He had the tools. He had just won the championship in the AHL. He got the gig. Quinn, in need of additional coaching experience and not included on McCammon's staff, became the head man at Maine (AHL). Crisp was retained as an assistant under McCammon. But McCammon's much-documented approach wore quickly on the vets especially. The team was in a slump, uncommonly surprisingly in that point. Trying to replace a complex, successful man like Fred Shero was a near impossibility. Thus, McCammon was shipped back to the AHL. Quinn became the head coach after a few months (basically 1 1/2 seasons) of coaching including as assistant with the Flyers. Crisp was retained as an assistant. The players responded under Quinn but losing Bernie Parent to a career-ending eye injury was a fatal blow to any aspirations: Wayne Stephenson and Robbie Moore were exposed as were other areas.

In Quinn's first full season, they went on the 35-game streak under the guidance of a rookie in Pete Peeters and a vet in Phil Myre. They played with confidence and swagger. Then the screw job in the Cup Finals. Then the 7-game series loss to the Calgary Flames in 1981 in which fan favorite Bruce Hood gave the Flyers four minors in the first eight minutes of the seventh game (pity, because the Game 6 win in the small Calgary Corral was one of the great victories of that period...Bobby Clarke's breakaway goal was memorable).

The Flyers were getting undisciplined under Quinn. The inability to beat the Rangers was something primary. But the penalties were frustrating. It became a weight around Quinn's neck, unfortunately, and to some gave the appearance that his players were on a different page. To a man, they admired Quinn and wanted to win for him. Almost the opposite of some feelings towards McCammon, But McCammon did all he could do in the AHL and the Flyers felt that it was time to see what he could do in the NHL. The timing was dreadful but the feeling that the Quinn teams could not beat the Rangers, the almost lock to be the first round opponent, was an albatross.

McCammon's teams lost 9 of 10 playoff games spanning three seasons (Best of 5 existed). That was something that was inexcusable. His personality supposedly wore on players. The forced vacations of guys like Bobby Clarke and Bill Barber was a message. He wanted them rested. Imagine telling Bobby Clarke not to play! The defense was horrid at times. Frank Bathe was named the team's best defenseman one year, a year in which he played 28 games. That should be one crucial signal. It is why the Flyers made the excellent moves in those years to get the four horsemen: Mark Howe, Brad Marsh, Brad McCrimmon and Doug Crossman via trades. All settled in nicely under Mike Keenan though Crossman had his difficulties with him as time advanced.
 
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BiggE

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Good answer above. No need to apologize in asking questions, we add dialogue on the board in such ways.

Shero wanted a more significant role in player personnel and was offered a job with the Rangers. He was "traded" to NY.

The names generally accepted for a replacement were Terry Crisp, Bob McCammon, Pat Quinn and I seem to remember Larry Hillman who coached the Cup-winning Winnipeg team in the WHA and who played for the Flyers in the team's infancy.

Crisp was an assistant coach under Shero. McCammon was a successful coach at the AHL. Quinn had completed his first year as an assistant under Shero. He was the replacement for Barry Ashbee, a D-man coach under Shero, who had succumbed to leukemia during the 1977 playoffs. Quinn had a relationship with Keith Allen and despite no history with the Flyers, became an assistant immediately following his playing days with the Atlanta Flames.

Hence, the script was written.

McCammon was a favorite with Ed Snider. Young (late 30s), smart and disciplined. He had the tools. He had just won the championship in the AHL. He got the gig. Quinn, in need of additional coaching experience and not included on McCammon's staff, became the head man at Maine (AHL). Crisp was retained as an assistant under McCammon. But McCammon's much-documented approach wore quickly on the vets especially. The team was in a slump, uncommonly surprisingly in that point. Trying to replace a complex, successful man like Fred Shero was a near impossibility. Thus, McCammon was shipped back to the AHL. Quinn became the head coach after a few months (basically 1 1/2 seasons) of coaching. Crisp was retained as an assistant. The players responded under Quinn but losing Bernie Parent to a career-ending eye injury was a fatal blow to any aspirations: Wayne Stephenson and Robbie Moore were exposed as were other areas.

In Quinn's first full season, they went on the 35-game streak under the guidance of a rookie in Pete Peeters and a vet in Phil Myre. They played with confidence and swagger. Then the screw job in the Cup Finals. Then the 7-game series loss to the Calgary Flames in 1981 in which fan favorite Bruce Hood gave the Flyers four minors in the first eight minutes of the seventh game (pity, because the Game 6 win in the small Calgary Corral was one of the great victories of that period...Bobby Clarke's breakaway goal was memorable).

The Flyers were getting undisciplined under Quinn. The inability to beat the Rangers was something primary. But the penalties were frustrating. It became a weight around Quinn's neck, unfortunately, and to some gave the appearance that his players were on a different page. To a man, they admired Quinn and wanted to win for him. Almost the opposite of some feelings towards McCammon, But McCammon did all he could do in the AHL and the Flyers felt that it was time to see what he could do in the NHL. The timing was dreadful but the feeling that the Quinn teams could not beat the Rangers, the almost lock to be the first round opponent, was an albatross.

McCammon's teams lost 9 of 10 playoff games spanning three seasons (Best of 5 existed). That was something that was inexcusable. His personality supposedly wore on players. The forced vacations of guys like Bobby Clarke and Bill Barber was a message. He wanted them rested. Imagine telling Bobby Clarke not to play! The defense was horrid at times. Frank Bathe was named the team's best defenseman one year, a year in which he played 28 games. That should be one crucial signal. It is why the Flyers made the excellent moves in those years to get the four horsemen: Mark Howe, Brad Marsh, Brad McCrimmon and Doug Crossman via trades. All settled in nicely under Mike Keenan though Crossman had his difficulties with him as time advanced.

In Jay Greenberg’s excellent history of the Flyers, he mentions that Ed Snider deeply regretted replacing GM Keith Allen with McCammon in 83 too. McCammon had threatened to take the GM job in Pittsburgh if the Flyers wouldn’t give it to him, and in hindsight, Snider said we should have just let him go. I badly wanted McCammon gone after the 83 playoffs and I was shocked that he was made GM.

All in all, McCammon was a terrible coach, not so much for the X’s and O’s but instead for his horrid people skills. At the minor league level, his autocratic ways could succeed but trying the same with vets like Clarke, Barber and Sittler was a recipe for disaster.
 

baudib1

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I watched the Flyers of that era but I don't remember a single thing about Bob McCammon. I was very young, but I could tell you a ton of stories about, say, Dallas Green or Dick Vermeil or Billy Cunningham. The Flyers were fourth out of four at the time.

In looking back at it, there are a couple of guys from the "flash in the pan" lists on these teams, like Flockhart and Allison. Behn Wilson was a Calder Cup finalist and score 63 points in his third year (sounds a lot like Ghost), he was enormously gifted player who badly regressed after that. Was McCammon unable to properly develop those players or was it those players' inability to maintain success what really led to McCammon's failures?
 
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BiggE

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I watched the Flyers of that era but I don't remember a single thing about Bob McCammon. I was very young, but I could tell you a ton of stories about, say, Dallas Green or Dick Vermeil or Billy Cunningham. The Flyers were fourth out of four at the time.

In looking back at it, there are a couple of guys from the "flash in the pan" lists on these teams, like Flockhart and Allison. Behn Wilson was a Calder Cup finalist and score 63 points in his third year (sounds a lot like Ghost), he was enormously gifted player who badly regressed after that. Was McCammon unable to properly develop those players or was it those players' inability to maintain success what really led to McCammon's failures?
Likely a combo of both. The vets, nearly to a man, couldn’t stand McCammon. That had to have some kind of trickle down effect with the kids.
 

Normand Lacombe

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Whew, that’s a lot of questions, lol.

When Shero bolted for the Rags, three replacements were considered: McCammon, Quinn and assistant coach Terry Crisp. I don’t recall them giving any serious consideration to anyone else. McCammon was the only one that had head coaching experience at any level and that gave him a leg up on the other 2. Quinn, realizing this, took the job coaching the Flyers AHL affiliate to get that experience.

Other than his struggles against the Rangers and the fact that the Flyers were in a mini slump, I don’t know of any other reason for Quinn’s dismissal. Bobby Clsrke, who was also serving as an assistant coach as a player, was shocked by the firing. McCammon was having a lot of success coaching in the AHL at that time and I suppose that might of factored in, but looking back, firing Quinn was a horrible move.

Why were McCammon’s teams so bad? Not sure there is one simple answer to that one. In 82, the Flyers D was thin and banged up and the smaller, but much faster Rangers, badly exposed them. The 83 team really should have won, but the Flyers got some pretty poor goaltending during that series and McCammon was outcoached. Finally in 84, the Flyers were badly in need of some young legs (which would come next year), but I also think a lot of players simply quit on McCammon who was reviled by much of the team.

I didn't know Crisp was considered. Would have been interesting how Crisp would have interacted as HC with his ex-teammates. Would he have been more of a buddy or would Crisp have been the coach he was in Calgary, who wore out his welcome after three seasons? Ironically, Crisp's heavily favored Flames barely survived McCammon's Canucks in the 1989 playoffs thanks to Joel Otto's OT winner in game 7. McCammon was fired in 1991 and replaced by, you guessed it, Vancouver GM Pat Quinn.

Back on topic, Pelle's first playoff in 1983 was awful. His second half slump continued into the playoffs with Pelle posting an unsightly 6.10 GAA and a .788 SV% against a Rangers club that was .500 during the regular season. It didn't help the Flyers cause when McCammon provided the Rangers with fodder, calling them "Smurfs."
 
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