Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Voting Results (Part 1)

[DannyGallivan]

(Geoffrion is more of a New York Ranger in my mind...)

Really? Is Phil Esposito more of a Ranger to you as well?

 

[Michael Farkas]

"Blackhawks, man"

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm happy with those results

 

[MXD]

Agree for the most part. One exception - I would have Conacher in and Malkin out.

Well, I'm one of the two participants who ranked Conacher first. I overrated him in Round 1 (I think I've ranked him somewhere between 35th and 40th, which was a bit optimistic), but that has swung way, way too far in the wrong direction. I didn't have Hull 5th (and I don't have any issue with Hull 5th), but one probably has to use two very different assessment grids to come up to the conclusion that Hull is 5th and Conacher is 55th.

Malkin... Well... I'm surprised actually. Thought he might've snucked in. Not clearly made it on first vote of availability.

 

[pappyline]

Well, I'm one of the two participants who ranked Conacher first. I overrated him in Round 1 (I think I've ranked him somewhere between 35th and 40th, which was a bit optimistic), but that has swung way, way too far in the wrong direction. I didn't have Hull 5th (and I don't have any issue with Hull 5th), but one probably has to use two very different assessment grids to come up to the conclusion that Hull is 5th and Conacher is 55th.

Malkin... Well... I'm surprised actually. Thought he might've snucked in. Not clearly made it on first vote of availability.

I had Conacher 38th in round 1, Since he came up in round 2, I had him at 1,2,2 (I had Schmidt ahead in vote 10 & 11)).

 

[seventieslord]

If Brimsek and Malkin were swapped in those voting results, then it would have matched my ballot almost perfectly. No one off by more than two (aside from those guys). Fair result.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

To me the biggest surprise was that Malkin was the only candidate with zero last place votes.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

I had Conacher 38th in round 1, Since he came up in round 2, I had him at 1,2,2 (I had Schmidt ahead in vote 10 & 11)).

Since available, I've had Conacher at (I think) 5,2,2. The post mortem analysis of our placement of Shore provided an interesting juxtaposition.

Player A has rating attenuated (oh, from 8-16, was it?) and we say "we've moved beyond trophy-counting to a more nuanced understanding."

Player B, playing in the same era, has rating attenuated by about the same number of spots, and we say "he didn't get any trophy consideration, so how good could he have been, really?"

I just have to shake my head...

 

[Nick Hansen]

Interesting how the emphasis has shifted from goal scorers to more complete players.

Three of the bottom five were predominantly goalscorers.

Yeah.

I guess the reason is that people consider the overwhelming scoring of some players to take out their deficiencies in other areas? Whereas we get down to the lower levels such as Geoffrion and Dionne it wasn't good enough to cancel out the bad parts of their game.

Although Conacher surprises me a bit...

 

[wetcoast]

To me the biggest surprise was that Malkin was the only candidate with zero last place votes.

That is surprising.

I want to say that I was surprised with Forsberg getting 2 last place votes but I'm not.

I'm thinking the rational is that his play outside the NHL wasn't considered.

If that's the case I hope the same metric is going to be used fairly with other potential candidates.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Conacher ending wherever he's gonna end up really, but really won't compute with the rankings of Bobby Hull, Mike Bossy and Alexander Ovechkin.

Bossy really is the ideal template for the illustration here. Yeah- Bossy's ahead of Conacher- no controversy there-- but I have about a 10-placing gap, not a 2-dozen placing gulf between the two. Bossy has length of prime and Cup-counting over Conacher- and that's enough... but what else does he have over the guy?

Did Bossy ever have a "top-forward-in-the-league" case? Conacher does.
Peak Bossy is a power-play scoring demon. Peak Conacher is an even-strength scoring demon.
Conacher had King Clancy bringing the puck up, and that's great. Bossy had Denis Potvin bringing the puck up, and that's better.
Conacher had Joe Primeau alongside him at Center- fantastic. Bossy had Bryan Trottier alongside him at Center- even better- and not especially close how much better that was.
Clark Gillies can reasonably be judged in arrears to Busher Jackson- and that's a fair cop. Gillies did bring the extra toughness to that Islanders line. Conacher WAS the extra toughness on his line.

Not the first time I've had a down-roster gap between where I placed a guy on my Prelim List and where The Panel will place him. It is, to date, the most inexplicable one, though.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Bossy appears to have been a better and more complete player. Also he had to play for a defensive-oriented team in an offensive oriented time. If there's one drawback to Bossy, it's the damage he did in the stinky early 80s...his rookie season and second to last season do assuage those feelings as well as they can...

At best, the gap boils down to Conacher being somebody for five years and Bossy being somebody for ten. I would put that in a drawer marked "significant"...

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Break out the pane- conjecture time again/who will it be this time??

My next five to add from my original list are Firsov, Bowie, Vezina, Stuart, Selanne. I’d add in Joe Malone as a guy I underrated in R1 I’d be happy to see show up.

Only four next go-round.

We are now at the point where Vézina could be brought up and have him fit. [Benedict/Gardiner, too- but I won't hold my breath.] I have Selänne as my un-nominated BPA per my Prelim List- but I can never be quite sure what Our Committee is going to do when it comes to goal-scoring Wingers.

Wonder if we've advanced our first player not listed by everyone yet? If we haven't, I suspect we will- this Vote or the next.

Bowie/Stuart? I think Iginla/Fedorov has a better chance of happening- but I'm not holding my breath for that, either.

Hot take- if you exclude the above-mentioned Goaltenders, you could have an all non-NA-born set of nominees, from three different countries, and have them all be worthy...

 

[MXD]

Taking for granted that Conacher and Brimsek make it : Vezina and Gardiner would be at the top off list, no questions asked. MAYBE Benedict would, too.
I don't have my list on hand, but on top of my head, my highest ranked non-available skaters are Anatoli Firsov, Duncan Keith and Al McInnis.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Taking for granted that Conacher and Brimsek make it : Vezina and Gardiner would be at the top off list, no questions asked. MAYBE Benedict would, too.
I don't have my list on hand, but on top of my head, my highest ranked non-available skaters are Anatoli Firsov, Duncan Keith and Al McInnis.

I had Turk Broda ahead of both Gardiner and Benedict. Bill Durnan ahead of all of them.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Hoping for many guys, too many to count.

Scott Stevens, Zdeno Chara, Charlie Gardiner, Eddie Gerard, Serge Savard, Bill Gadsby, Borje Salming, Georges Vezina, etc

Lots of defensemen.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Stevens, MacInnis, Firsov, Vezina, and Gardiner are due. We're really only adding 4? Ugh.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Stevens, MacInnis, Firsov, Vezina, and Gardiner are due. We're really only adding 4? Ugh.

Forgot him, him too.So many could be added here, we're reaching a plateau IMO.

 

[sr edler]

Come on, I want some exciting players to debate now. I can live with Stevens/MacInnis/someone similar/or even a boring goalie next round if we also throw in a Fedorov or some other whole package player with flair. Where is Sentinel, by the way, this thing is more fun when people disagree with each other.

 

[MXD]

Flair seems to be some code word for "European Player Playing Most of his Career with the Red Wings" as opposed to an actual attribute.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Verifying the results, but it looks like Conacher, Brimsek, Cleghorn, Kennedy, and Pronger.

 

[MXD]

Verifying the results, but it looks like Conacher, Brimsek, Cleghorn, Kennedy, and Pronger.

Not quite what I had, but as long as Conacher/Brimsek made it, and Dionne/Mahovlich didn't, I'm fine with it.

 

[The Macho King]

Pronger actually rose a bit for me during the discussion, but I'm still not super thrilled about him being placed here.

I don't know - maybe it's his face.

 

[MXD]

Pronger actually rose a bit for me during the discussion, but I'm still not super thrilled about him being placed here.

I don't know - maybe it's his face.

I'm not super thrilled either...
But I would've lived perfectly with voting in only two players (Brimsek and Conacher) and having a bigger pool next round.

 

[sr edler]

Flair seems to be some code word for "European Player Playing Most of his Career with the Red Wings" as opposed to an actual attribute.

Code words in a hockey project? Are you serious? And I'm not a Red Wings fan, you know that.