Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time (The Third)

[The Panther]

Here's the thing: You can obviously make an argument for Evgeni Malkin above Peter Forsberg, or Peter Forsberg above Evgeni Malkin, as per your own preferences / biases. Like, if you're into simple trophy-counting and "scored more total career this or that", then Malkin wins. And if you're into the physical dimension and responsible two-way play, higher peak per game stats, then Forsberg wins. Or whatever.

But to argue that either of has utterly surpassed the other, or that one is in a different league to the other, is wrong-headed.

(Needless to say, you also cannot argue that Forsberg was better than Gordie Howe unless you're insane.)

 

[Neutrinos]

(Needless to say, you also cannot argue that Forsberg was better than Gordie Howe unless you're insane.)

"The thing about smart people is that they seem like crazy people to dumb people" - Stephen Hawking

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The thing with malkin is consistency and injuries. When you caught malkin healthy and on his game the best player in the world marker fits... and that could be with peak crosby ovechkin and McDavid on the ice. Malkin was at that level

 

[seventieslord]

Here's the thing:

"The thing about

The thing with

Sensing a theme

 

[tarheelhockey]

There seems to be a mindset that's becoming more popular lately that says, "as soon as active player A has done something better than older player B did, then he's officially better". It seems to be really popular with Cale Makar fans (and I love Makar) but to an extent, you're doing it with McDavid here.

Without a doubt, McDavid's best 6 seasons have been better than Forsberg's best 6 and Malkin's best 6. Who could argue against that? You provided the bullet point case for all to see. But I don't agree with automatically saying that he's clearly better than they now, in an all-time sense. And you touched on why, in another post: in McDavid's seventh and eighth best seasons, what was he doing? Playing Junior hockey and watching NHL highlights on his sofa. In EM and PF's 8th and 9th best seasons, whichever those were, they weren't just doing nothing, just because they don't have a scoring finish or a Hart finish to point to. They were both among the league's ten best forwards, scoring over a point per game and contributing to a great deal of team success. Almost certainly only some missed games prevented then from earning bullet point achievements in those seasons.

I'm sure that in a career that was, as of three seasons ago, over twice as long as McDavid's still is now, Malkin had contributed much more to the goal of winning NHL hockey games than McDavid still has to this point. McDavid's better on the ice, yes, but is he twice as good?

I can't help but feel your second post directly contradicts what you had said when comparing McDavid to these two.

Like I said earlier, I do think that longevity of prime — and even longevity outside of prime — has real value. I’m not overlooking that at all.

But when comparing McDavid to someone like Malkin or Forsberg, it seems kind of trivial for him to have to keep playing out a string of seasons before we’re willing to acknowledge the obvious.

Part of it is that I put a pretty heavy value on players who were the best in the world for a substantial amount of time (and not due to contextual weirdness like war or peer-injuries). McDavid has been king of the past 5 years and as recently as this past autumn he had a run of weeks where the numbers had a Big Four type of sheen. His generational comparables are guys like Crosby and Ovechkin and Lafleur, who are a tier above the Malkin/Forsberg level.

Yes, he does still have to play the rest of his career, but that seems more procedural than material to his argument. There’s always a chance he Karlssons and we have a difficult conversation ahead of us, but much more likely than that is a scenario where his off-peak seasons look at least as good as Malkin’s or Forsberg’s, which simply reinforces the difference in peak. If this were a voting round I’d follow the principles of the project and withhold that assumption until it’s official, but this is just a chat thread and I’m not a project participant, so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he doesn’t get hit by a bus or something and ends up being a top-25 player or better.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Forsberg's points per game is high because virtually his entire NHL career was played within his prime years. Forsberg started out as an old rookie. He was 21 years 6 months of age before he played his first NHL game. Elite forwards do not start their NHL careers so late in the modern era. As an older rookie, Forsberg therefore had a higher points per game in his lockout-shortened rookie season. After these first 47 games, ie. in his second season Forsberg was already in his prime and put up his career highs in points, assists, and goals. On the other hand, most modern NHL forwards will spend several full regular seasons building up to their career highs, as they start out younger. On the tail end of things, his prime went into the 2005-06 season, where Forsberg at age 32 scored 75 points in 60 games. After age 32, Forsberg only played 68 NHL games for the rest of his career, ie. less than one regular season where he was "passed his prime". Most HOF forwards will play at least for half a decade or more after the age of 32 (Malkin is already turning 36 himself), and during these years their points per game drops significantly. Forsberg avoided both the drop in points per game at the start of his career (due to being green), and the drop at the end of his career (from being old), because he simply did not play. He has a mere 115 games played outside of his prime (age 22 to 32), that's less than 1.5 seasons.

Does Forsberg deserve credit for simply not playing outside of his prime? Probably not.


Plus minus is, by consensus, a worthless stat.

Geno joined the NHL at 20 which is old for a rookie as well, but not for a Russian one.

It seems fair to compare their prime age 21-32 seasons — as I think you hinted at when pointing out the flaws of comparing their career totals — which however does not do much of anything to help Malkin gain on Forsberg in a comparison, as the former’s inconsistency in his prime is what drags down the shine of his peak productive seasons in a larger sample size, whereas Forsberg’s case only gets a small boost by dropping his limp final 68 NHL games since he was remarkably consistent throughout his prime.

Malkin 774 358-559-917 +64 1.185 p/g

Playoffs 157 63-101-164 +10 1.045 p/g


Forsberg 640 235-581-816 +228 1.275 p/g

Playoffs 139 61-101-162 +49 1.165 p/g

I think the claim that the players for career value are virtually identical (in a historical comparison) still holds true, it’s at least not the ridiculous claim that some would make it although I would give Malkin the edge at this point. His inconsistency is frustrating however, he was every bit as good as Crosby and Ovechkin in his finest hours, but he jumps a lot from greatness to irrelevance. He’s often been banged up of course, but in a one to one comparison to Forsberg, I struggle giving one the benefit of the doubt when the other was such a thrill and so effective playing on one foot.

Anyhow, here’s the statistical argument for Malkin I think you are looking for:

VsX - career summary Player	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th	10th	7YR	10YR
Evgeni Malkin 112.4 102.7 100.0 96.1 82.8 81.4 80.9 74.6 70.6 65.2 93.7 86.7 Peter Forsberg 101.9 100.0 96.7 92.7 90.7 78.9 71.4 70.8 63.2 54.3 90.3 82.1

I couldn’t make the table look right on my phone, but peak and prime Malkin looks good in relation to Forsberg if you compare their most productive seasons relative to the competition. Ymmv on which extent Forsberg’s two-way game might narrow the gap however.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

wow that is some childish self-aggrandizing

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Seems the faulty Forsberg points-per-game argument has already been addressed, though I’ll add that comparing points-per-game (adjusted or not) across different eras should always be taken with a grain of salt. Otherwise you end up like our friend on the last page who rates Forsberg above Gordie Howe.


That would be your opinion, which would not be a majority view. The fact however is that Malkin did have another season in the top 10 in Hart voting that year.

Agreed on part 1.

As for Malkin getting top 10 in Hart voting, here are the numbers for him and the next 3 players to get votes:

Malkin 25-49-74 +7

Auston Matthews 47-33-80 +19

John Carlson 15-60-75 +12

Nikita Kucherov 33-52-85 +26

Since Malkin's 8 votes comprised 0.47% of total vote points, I don't think it could be called a majority view.

Seems like I touched a nerve?

Stay classy pal.


I've seen their entire careers to date. Malkin was clearly the better player, both in the NHL and on the international stage.

You did.

My apologies.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I am glad that we can agree on the fact that Malkin has added to his resume since the last hfboards list was made, while Forsberg has not. Where we diverge is our idea of where they were rated relative to each other in ~January 2019. You had them even at that time. I had Malkin significantly ahead by then already. He had already doubled Forsberg’s career accomplishments by that time in my eyes. He was also the better player peak for peak. I cannot envisage Forsberg winning a Conn Smythe from a peak Crosby, or taking the Ross from peak Ovechkin. Malkin just had another gear and showed his best against better competition.

I can absolutely imagine Forsberg winning a Conn Smythe over Crosby. I'm not here to pimp Forsberg, who I think is often perceived as being 1-2 tiers better than he actually was (see comparison to Gordie Howe above) but I don't see where Crosby's actual Smythe-winning run in 2017 is any better than Forsberg's 1999 or 2002. Likewise, what's the big difference between Forsberg's 2003 and Ovechkin's 2008? Ovechkin was a very catch-able contender in the Ross race, never having a year where he separated from the pack.

But I think the biggest factor for both of these players is that they were only that good within small timeframes. Malkin was like Datsyuk in that he had maybe 2 huge years, and outside of that timeframe he was just never at that level. Forsberg was much the same way, though injuries were more of a factor in his case. I'm just not seeing the separation between them in terms of peak, length of peak, quality of prime, or length of prime. If Malkin adds substantial seasons going forward (which I expect he will) then at that point there might be some separation.

To be a truly representative consensus though, the next list would need to be more representative of the hockey world as a whole. This current list was an honest attempt, and a couple of the voters are folks I look up to for their hockey knowledge. That said, it definitely has a western slant. Having more eastern voters involved would go a long way.

For sure, it could always use more voters and a wider variety of perspectives. But I don't think there are major biases built into it that would impact results more than a couple of spots in either direction, tbh. The voting results aren't that tightly packed in most rounds.

 

[sr edler]

As for Forsberg (allegedly) being overrated by some people, I was over at the poll section on this site, where someone's thrown up a Draisaitl vs Forsberg thread. In this thread someone made the claim that up until age 26, Forsberg really wasn't that impressive because the only individual award he had won was a Calder, and that his bigger years came later on (they didn't, he merely continued to be himself). Contrary to Draisaitl who had a Hart and a Ross (and something else too?) prior to age 26.

I had to point out though, in said thread, that aged 24 and 25 Forsberg won back-to-back 1st team all-star nods, as the best C in the league. And that in 96–97, aged 23, he had finished 3rd in all-star voting at C behind Lemieux and Gretzky. That is not counting his 5th place scoring finish in 95–96 aged 22, in a stacked field, et cetera, and all that other good stuff (Olympics, Stanley Cup).

But somehow winning a Hart over Markus Näslund trumps everything?

I'm not saying Forsberg can't be overrated, by the way, all players can be overrated. Except Bure ( ).

 

[Wings4Life]

Forsberg’s case only gets a small boost by dropping his limp final 68 NHL games since he was remarkably consistent throughout his prime.

I see what you're saying, but this goes to the original point I have been harping on: Forsberg's grand total of 68 "post-prime" games barely hurts his career numbers at all. Most HOF players will have 300-500 games in that "post-prime" category, and you can bet that lengthy portion of their career is going to hurt every single one of their career point per game rates. People tend to forget this when it comes to Forsberg.

I would give Malkin the edge at this point.

I'm with you there, as far as Malkin-Forsberg is concerned.

His inconsistency is frustrating however, he was every bit as good as Crosby and Ovechkin in his finest hours, but he jumps a lot from greatness to irrelevance. He’s often been banged up of course

True, and a big part of the reason is right there in your post. At his peak Malkin was one of the two or three best players in the world in any given season, and some years even the very best. At times however, he would start a season looking like a world beater, get injured, then come back from injury to soon, and look like an average player for a stretch while he played his way through whatever he was coming back from. He was notorious for doing this for most of the last decade. Are we to credit him for pushing through the pain, or punish him for coming back to soon? Pittsburgh's injury situations have been bordering on the ridiculous over the last 12 or so years, at some point you have to wonder whether their medical staff was clearing guys too quickly or making other grievous errors. Sidney Crosby's missed neck fracture comes to mind.

I couldn’t make the table look right on my phone, but peak and prime Malkin looks good in relation to Forsberg if you compare their most productive seasons relative to the competition. Ymmv on which extent Forsberg’s two-way game might narrow the gap however.

I couldn't quite make out your table, but VsX and the closely related and IMO superior VsX-PPG are both very nifty tools. Both systems happen to favor rating Malkin over Forsberg as well.

 

[Wings4Life]

You did.

My apologies.

No worries. I get fired up too when my favorites are discussed. If someone brings up Fedorov or Lidstrom, look out!

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I can absolutely imagine Forsberg winning a Conn Smythe over Crosby. I'm not here to pimp Forsberg, who I think is often perceived as being 1-2 tiers better than he actually was (see comparison to Gordie Howe above) but I don't see where Crosby's actual Smythe-winning run in 2017 is any better than Forsberg's 1999 or 2002. Likewise, what's the big difference between Forsberg's 2003 and Ovechkin's 2008? Ovechkin was a very catch-able contender in the Ross race, never having a year where he separated from the pack.

I’m sorry I should have written that more clearly. When I wrote I couldn’t see Forsberg winning a Smythe against peak Crosby, I meant I don’t think he would’ve edged the peak 2009 version of Crosby who put up 15 goals and 31 points for the Smythe, like Malkin did. Personally, I dont consider 2017 to be peak Crosby.

As for peak Ovechkin (2007-08 and 2008-09), he wasn’t far ahead of the pack because him and Malkin were the pack in those years. Both took hardware off each other. Drop either of them into 2003 and I believe both take Forsberg’s trophies that year too. Marcus Naslund managed to split some of Forsberg’s hardware with him.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I’m sorry I should have written that more clearly. When I wrote I couldn’t see Forsberg winning a Smythe against peak Crosby, I meant I don’t think he would’ve edged the peak 2009 version of Crosby who put up 15 goals and 31 points for the Smythe, like Malkin did. Personally, I dont consider 2017 to be peak Crosby.

As for peak Ovechkin (2007-08 and 2008-09), he wasn’t far ahead of the pack because him and Malkin were the pack in those years. Both took hardware off each other. Drop either of them into 2003 and I believe both take Forsberg’s trophies that year too. Marcus Naslund managed to split some of Forsberg’s hardware with him.

That's fair.

 

[The Panther]

If you whittle it down to top-7 PPG seasons:

Forsberg
1, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 6
Malkin
1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4

(NOTE: The above is giving Forsberg full credit for the '04 season when in fact he played only half the year. However, since his per game stats that year are identical to the year before, I don't think it's a stretch.)

So, in scoring terms, in their primes, they're very comparable. Malkin was competing with Crosby and Ovechkin, while Forsberg was initially competing with Lemieux (and old Gretzky) and peak Jagr, but later had lesser competition and put up those back-to-back "1st"s in PPG.

Malkin, of course, per the longer career, adds on about three more top-10 PPG seasons in the lesser end of the top-10, though I don't think most would consider those years his prime. Forsberg has no further top-10 seasons beyond these.

In playoffs, they're quite comparable as well. Both led the playoffs in scoring twice. Malkin maybe gets an extra point for the great '09 playoff, but then again Forsberg was more consistently good and has far better plus/minus results (and better overall scoring results, per game).

 

[Matsun]

I don't think Malkin has added anything really to his resume since this list but I felt he was in the midst of a very good season when corona struck. He missed 11 games at the start and took a while to get going, but from 2019-11-16 to the lockdown he led the league in PPG while missing 3 games. Malkin also had 11 points in his last 5 games so he was still hot when the play stopped with 13 games left for the Pens. Malkin was clearly not winning a Ross or Hart but I could see him ending up with a top 5 finish judging by the way he was playing.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

I see what you're saying, but this goes to the original point I have been harping on: Forsberg's grand total of 68 "post-prime" games barely hurts his career numbers at all. Most HOF players will have 300-500 games in that "post-prime" category, and you can bet that lengthy portion of their career is going to hurt every single one of their career point per game rates. People tend to forget this when it comes to Forsberg.

On the main boards perhaps, but I’m not seeing anyone extrapolating Forsberg’s prime scoring over a healthy 1000+ game career on the HoH to prop him up against Malkin, in this case. Well, I guess I saw someone saying Foppa was better than Gordie Howe up thread so obviously everyone’s welcome at HoH, but most of the regular posters and the guys you’ve seen participating in different player ranking projects here are reasonable and unlikely to deduce from Forsberg having a career ppg superior to Jagr’s for example, that Foppa was the better player. But if we compare Forsberg’s ppg to Malkin, at this particular point in time, it doesn’t matter much if we look at their full career totals or a prime age span, as I think the age 21-32 comparison serves to prove.

True, and a big part of the reason is right there in your post. At his peak Malkin was one of the two or three best players in the world in any given season, and some years even the very best. At times however, he would start a season looking like a world beater, get injured, then come back from injury to soon, and look like an average player for a stretch while he played his way through whatever he was coming back from. He was notorious for doing this for most of the last decade. Are we to credit him for pushing through the pain, or punish him for coming back to soon? Pittsburgh's injury situations have been bordering on the ridiculous over the last 12 or so years, at some point you have to wonder whether their medical staff was clearing guys too quickly or making other grievous errors. Sidney Crosby's missed neck fracture comes to mind.

I’m not one to deduce points for failing to reach one’s highest level of play when battling injury, but I do think it’s remarkable, and a point in Forsberg’s favor, that he was able to produce as well as he did playing on one foot, for instance. Many of the things you say about Malkin applies to Forsberg as well, except the part about looking average returning from injury for any long stretches.

 

[wetcoast]

"The thing about smart people is that they seem like crazy people to dumb people" - Stephen Hawking

You are no Stephen Hawking Sir.

 

[jcbio11]

Solid list.

Having goalies on the same list as skaters is tricky.

Don't agree with Hasek not being the highest rated goalie. Pretty clear cut IMHO.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Solid list.

Having goalies on the same list as skaters is tricky.

Don't agree with Hasek not being the highest rated goalie. Pretty clear cut IMHO.

Not saying agree or disagree, but is there an element to the Hasek argument that isn't centered on the trophies (it's a dumb question as written, but I'm just trying to extract more than the Hockey-Reference stuff here)...?

Do you have a rough a top 5 or so goalies as you see it...?

 

[jcbio11]

Not saying agree or disagree, but is there an element to the Hasek argument that isn't centered on the trophies (it's a dumb question as written, but I'm just trying to extract more than the Hockey-Reference stuff here)...?

Do you have a rough a top 5 or so goalies as you see it...?

Off the top of my head -

1. Hasek

2 - 5 - Roy, Brodeur, Plante, Sawchuk in no particular order.

My knowledge is very limited on the two older goalies and I would need to do some reading before actually ranking the 2 to 5. The discussions on here are really good so I might just go do that.

I understand what you mean when you say you want more than hockey reference arguments, so here's mine.

Dominik Hasek was unique. And he was unique in an absolutely dominant way. He got in people's heads like nobody. Never before and never after was one single goalie so feared. This is just how I feel about him.

Edit -
1. Hasek
2. Roy
3. Brodeur

This is my ranking for the more modern goalies.

 

[Professor What]

I take Hasek as the #1 goalie, but I don't think it's necessarily clear-cut between him and Roy. Roy was just on another level in the postseason.

If I can have any goalie for the regular season, I want Hasek. If I can have any goalie for the playoffs, I want Roy. Leaves plenty of room for discussion in my mind,

 

[jigglysquishy]

Thought I'd take a stab at categorizing the list by era. I'm including players who were in their prime in a certain era. The edge cases were basically quick judgement calls

Rankings	Pre-Expansion (Pre-1967)	Post-Expansion (Post-1967)	Pre-Merger (Pre-1927)	Original Six (1942-1967)	International Era (Post-1992)
1	Gordie Howe	Wayne Gretzky	Frank Nighbor	Gordie Howe	Mario Lemieux
2	Bobby Hull	Bobby Orr	Cyclone Taylor	Bobby Hull	Patrick Roy
3	Jean Beliveau	Mario Lemieux	Newsy Lalonde	Jean Beliveau	Ray Bourque
4	Doug Harvey	Patrick Roy	Sprague Cleghorn	Doug Harvey	Sidney Crosby
5	Maurice Richard	Ray Bourque	Georges Vezina	Maurice Richard	Dominik Hasek
6	Howie Morenz	Sidney Crosby	Joe Malone	Red Kelly	Nicklas Lidstrom
7	Eddie Shore	Dominik Hasek	Clint Benedict	Jacques Plante	Jaromir Jagr
8	Red Kelly	Nicklas Lidstrom	Cy Denneny	Stan Mikita	Alex Ovechkin
9	Jacques Plante	Jaromir Jagr	Eddie Gerard	Glenn Hall	Martin Brodeur
10	Frank Nighbor	Denis Potvin	Russell Bowie	Terry Sawchuk	Joe Sakic
11	Stan Mikita	Mark Messier	Hugh Lehman	Ted Lindsay	Steve Yzerman
12	Glenn Hall	Alex Ovechkin	Tommy Philips	Syl Apps	Chris Chelios
13	Cyclone Taylor	Guy Lafleur	Hod Stuart	Henri Richard	Peter Forsberg
14	Bill Cook	Viacheslav Fetisov	Mickey MacKay	Milt Schmidt	Evgeni Malkin
15	Terry Sawchuk	Sergei Makarov	Georges Boucher	Pierre Pilote	Chris Pronger
16	Ted Lindsay	Phil Esposito	Moose Johnson	Frank Brimsek	Scott Stevens
17	Newsy Lalonde	Bobby Clarke	Frank Fredrickson	Ted Kennedy	Al MacInnis
18	Frank Boucher	Martin Brodeur	Babe Dye	Andy Bathgate	Teemu Selanne
19	King Clancy	Bryan Trottier	Duke Keats	Tim Horton	Brett Hull
20	Syl Apps	Joe Sakic	Lester Patrick	Dickie Moore	Ed Belfour
21	Henri Richard	Mike Bossy		Frank Mahovlich	Sergei Fedorov
22	Milt Schmidt	Larry Robinson		Max Bentley	Zdeno Chara
23	Pierre Pilote	Steve Yzerman		Elmer Lach	Joe Thornton
24	Charlie Conacher	Chris Chelios		Bill Durnan	Patrick Kane
25	Frank Brimsek	Valeri Kharlamov		Turk Broda	Duncan Keith

And by region raised in

Rank	Ontario	Quebec	Western Canada	USA	Europe
1	Wayne Gretzky	Mario Lemieux	Gordie Howe	Chris Chelios	Dominik Hasek
2	Bobby Orr	Jean Beliveau	Eddie Shore	Frank Brimsek	Nicklas Lidstrom
3	Bobby Hull	Patrick Roy	Mark Messier	Patrick Kane	Jaromir Jagr
4	Howie Morenz	Doug Harvey	Glenn Hall	Mark Howe	Alex Ovechkin
5	Red Kelly	Maurice Richard	Bobby Clarke	Brian Leetch	Viacheslav Fetisov
6	Denis Potvin	Ray Bourque	Bryan Trottier	Rod Langway	Sergei Makarov
7	Frank Nighbor	Jacques Plante	Joe Sakic	Mike Modano	Valeri Kharlamov
8	Stan Mikita	Guy Lafleur	Terry Sawchuk	John Leclair	Vladislav Tretiak
9	Phil Esposito	Martin Brodeur	Steve Yzerman		Peter Forsberg
10	Cyclone Taylor	Mike Bossy	Andy Bathgate		Evgeni Malkin
11	Bill Cook	Henri Richard	Max Bentley		Teemu Selanne
12	Larry Robinson	Pierre Pilote	Elmer Lach		Anatoli Firsov
13	Ted Lindsay	Sprague Cleghorn	Turk Broda		Jari Kurri
14	Newsy Lalonde	Bernie Geoffrion	Ed Belfour		Borje Salming
15	Frank Boucher	Marcel Dionne	Bill Gadsby		Boris Mikhailov
16	King Clancy	Georges Vezina	Duncan Keith		Sergei Fedorov
17	Syl Apps	Dickie Moore	Sid Abel		Zdeno Chara
18	Ken Dryden	Joe Malone	Jarome Iginla		Alexander Maltsev
19	Brad Park	Bill Cowley	Johnny Bower		Vladimir Martinec
20	Paul Coffey	Nels Stewart	Ching Johnson		Henrik Lundqvist
21	Milt Schmidt	Martin St. Louis	Jack Stewart		Erik Karlsson
22	Charlie Conacher	Dave Keon	Scott Niedermayer		Jiri Holocek
23	Ted Kennedy	Russell Bowie	Doug Bentley		Valeri Vasiliev
24	Chris Pronger	Serge Savard	Cecil Thompson		Peter Stastny
25	Earl Seibert	Roberto Luongo	Paul Kariya		Vladimir Krutov

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The top of that Western Canada group is some kind of tough.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Nice good idea @jigglysquishy