Top 10 defensemen since 2005 #2

[TMLegend]

Through the dog days of summer I figured I would help past the time by making these series of polls. 2005 seems like the best place to start as it was the beginning of the new NHL.

Couple of notes on how to vote and on who to suggest to add:
1) A player must of played at least one full season with the Leafs.
2) Please try to judge the players based on their play with the Leafs only.

Tell me who to add next.

Polls will run for 2 days.

The winner of poll #1, Tomas Kaberle

1) Tomas Kaberle

Click to read more...

 

[TMLegend]

This one here is Bryan McCabe fairly easily imo. He produced more than haneuf during his time here, played more minutes as a #1 defensemen should, and played more shorthanded than Phaneuf during his time here.

So I ask you HF, what does Phaneuf excel at that makes him better than McCabe?

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

McCabe regressed big time in a short period of time. I can clearly remember him disappointing me greatly from his fall from grace.

Phaneuf is my vote for the more important player

 

[ACC1224]

Kaberle gets the slight edge over McCabe.

 

[CDN24]

Mccabe. Phaneuf better not put one in his own net. It was the beginning of the end for McCabe.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I voted McCabe but should've voted Phaneuf because McCabe's best seasons in the Blue and White came before the lockout.

 

[Gary Nylund]

diceman:
You posted this in the 1st edition of this thread:

Look at Salming as an example and tell me that he played with any top D man....he was a true #1 and had no support, he made his partner better and his team better.

Have you really never heard of Ian Turnbull? Here's a link for you that lists Salming/Turnbull as the 13th greatest defensive pairing of all-time. I'm not saying that should be considered to be the last word on the subject but if you think Salming had no help you're way off.

http://sportsbin.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=3207

 

[Morbo]

Phaneuf.

 

[ACC1224]

diceman:
You posted this in the 1st edition of this thread:

Look at Salming as an example and tell me that he played with any top D man....he was a true #1 and had no support, he made his partner better and his team better.

Have you really never heard of Ian Turnbull? Here's a link for you that lists Salming/Turnbull as the 13th greatest defensive pairing of all-time. I'm not saying that should be considered to be the last word on the subject but if you think Salming had no help you're way off.

http://sportsbin.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=3207

Salming was also a HOF Defenseman. Pretty dumb to use him as a comparison to Phanuef.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Salming was also a HOF Defenseman. Pretty dumb to use him as a comparison to Phanuef.

Yeah even dumber to say he had no support. For that don't know of Turnbull, here's a few words from wiki:

Turnbull played 628 career NHL games, scoring 123 goals and 317 assists for 440 points. In his best offensive season, (1976–77 while with the Maple Leafs), he set career highs with 22 goals, 57 assists, 79 points, and a +47 plus/minus rating. The 79 points represent a Maple Leaf team record for most points in a season by a defenceman. This team record still stands over 30 years later.

Now Turnbull was no Salming but he was a very good player, certainly much better than anyone Phaneuf has had as a partner.

 

[Hope Bringer]

McCabe had two outstanding seasons right after the lockout, then was run out of town the third season.

Although Phaneuf will probably never reach those kind of numbers again, he's still more important then two seasons of McCabe

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Yeah even dumber to say he had no support. For that don't know of Turnbull, here's a few words from wiki:

Turnbull played 628 career NHL games, scoring 123 goals and 317 assists for 440 points. In his best offensive season, (1976–77 while with the Maple Leafs), he set career highs with 22 goals, 57 assists, 79 points, and a +47 plus/minus rating. The 79 points represent a Maple Leaf team record for most points in a season by a defenceman. This team record still stands over 30 years later.

Now Turnbull was no Salming but he was a very good player, certainly much better than anyone Phaneuf has had as a partner.

Well I watched that tandem play...its when I started watching the Leafs. Ian Turnbull was a very offensive minded defenseman. I don't recall him ever making Salming better. IF anything it was the other way around. You guys are really reaching here. Put Ian Turnbull at his prime with Dion Phanuef and you would have a disaster.
Phanuef would have to cover Turnbull's a$$ big time as Ian was nothing special defensively.

Borje Salming excelled at both ends of the ice. He was a gifted offensive D and I've never witnessed a D on the Leafs since him as good as him defensively.

I hope to god that nobody is actually suggesting Phanuef should be compared to Salming.

If you are comparing Turnbull to Phanuef then yes Ian had a stud to play D with..perhaps thats what Phanuef needs...a Borje Salming. Of course probably Brett Lebda would have looked good beside the great Salming.

Get your facts straight.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Sweet baby Jesus, get a look at the names on that list. Then you wonder why we never go anywhere.

 

[Leafidelity]

So I ask you HF, what does Phaneuf excel at that makes him better than McCabe?

Playing defense. God I'm gonna love hearing the same people that bash Phaneuf defend McCabe. I bet it was the very same people that ran McCabe out of town that are trying to railroad Dion, so this will be fun.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Sweet baby Jesus, get a look at the names on that list. Then you wonder why we never go anywhere.

this is so true.

our d core over the last decade has been mediocre at best.

 

[TMLegend]

Playing defense. God I'm gonna love hearing the same people that bash Phaneuf defend McCabe. I bet it was the very same people that ran McCabe out of town that are trying to railroad Dion, so this will be fun.

Phaneuf can't play defense. Standing in front of your net watching your partner work like a dog isn't playing defense in any way, shape, or form. Especially when you get manhandled like he did against Alex Steen this past season.

McCabe couldn't really play defense either, but he was a superior point producer and capable of logging huge minutes for his team. Something Phaneuf isn't capable of doing without becoming a liability out there.

Phaneuf is gonna win this one handily on reputation alone, not based on his on ice play or even stats.

 

[egd27]

Phaneuf can't play defense. Standing in front of your net watching your partner work like a dog isn't playing defense in any way, shape, or form. Especially when you get manhandled like he did against Alex Steen this past season.

McCabe couldn't really play defense either, but he was a superior point producer and capable of logging huge minutes for his team. Something Phaneuf isn't capable of doing without becoming a liability out there.

Phaneuf is gonna win this one handily on reputation alone, not based on his on ice play or even stats.

Or the most people vote for him.

Maybe your opinion isn't correct?

 

[Leafidelity]

McCabe couldn't really play defense either, but he was a superior point producer and capable of logging huge minutes for his team. Something Phaneuf isn't capable of doing without becoming a liability out there..

Ha. Say this one in the mid 2000's.

 

[TMLegend]

Ha. Say this one in the mid 2000's.

He had 28:17 in 05-06, 26:49 in 06-07, and 25:55 in 07-08. So at an older age he could actually play more than our younger captain.

 

[TMLegend]

Or the most people vote for him.

Maybe your opinion isn't correct?

Or maybe I'm just objective, and not blinded by how "great" our current Leafs are.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well I watched that tandem play...its when I started watching the Leafs. Ian Turnbull was a very offensive minded defenseman. I don't recall him ever making Salming better. IF anything it was the other way around. You guys are really reaching here. Put Ian Turnbull at his prime with Dion Phanuef and you would have a disaster.
Phanuef would have to cover Turnbull's a$$ big time as Ian was nothing special defensively.

Borje Salming excelled at both ends of the ice. He was a gifted offensive D and I've never witnessed a D on the Leafs since him as good as him defensively.

I hope to god that nobody is actually suggesting Phanuef should be compared to Salming.

If you are comparing Turnbull to Phanuef then yes Ian had a stud to play D with..perhaps thats what Phanuef needs...a Borje Salming. Of course probably Brett Lebda would have looked good beside the great Salming.

Get your facts straight.

No offence but you completely missed the point. I merely pointed out that Turnbull was a good player, and a good partner for Salming. Therefore the claim that Salming never had any support is false.

You say Turnbull never made Salming look better? Salming certainly looked better with Turnbull then he would have had he had some plug to play with.

 

[cookie]

This one here is Bryan McCabe fairly easily imo. He produced more than haneuf during his time here, played more minutes as a #1 defensemen should, and played more shorthanded than Phaneuf during his time here.

So I ask you HF, what does Phaneuf excel at that makes him better than McCabe?

Having a prime Kaberle at his side helps a little. Plus a team of veterans and players that don't need to "develop" their defensive game. I think we're wasting Phaneuf's prime years and when we do become competitive, he will be nothing more than a #3-4 defenseman.

 

[Leafidelity]

He had 28:17 in 05-06, 26:49 in 06-07, and 25:55 in 07-08. So at an older age he could actually play more than our younger captain.

Interesting. So because he's leaned on more, he's more capable. Or maybe it was because our defense depth was an abomination?

2005-2006(Top 4 TOI after McCabe and Kaberle)
Ken Klee
Ian White
Jay Harrison
Luke Richardson

2006-2007(Top 4 TOI after McCabe and Kaberle)
Pavel Kubina
Hal Gill
Ian White
Carlo Colaiacovo

2007-2008(Top 4 TOI after McCabe and Kaberle)
Pavel Kubina
Hal Gill
Ian White
Carlo Colaiacovo

 

[Joey Hoser]

Phaneuf is probably a better player at the end of the day, but he hasn't had anything like that monster season McCabe had in '05-'06. I think I have to go with McCabe based on that.

 

[Kessely Snipes]

Phaneuf, he gets way too much hate. McCabe will be next for me.