Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo

[mrmovies779]

I'm not going to pass judgement on the kid until we get a proper coach,real system and preferably a good/steady partner for him for an entire season.

 

[eco's bones]

To me DeAngelo is still a developing player and hardly a finished product. His best asset are his offensive skills though so far I would say he hasn't shown a lot of creativity--that may in part be due to the situations he was (or wasn't) in earlier in the season. Defensively he's not great--the Rangers haven't really paired him very much with a guy who pairs with him well. He needs someone big and mobile and very good defensively. Skjei and him could make a very good pairing but that might come at the expense of Skjei becoming more of a defensive rather than two way defenseman. Do we want that? I'm not sure I do.

In a way I kind of look at this as kind of a lost season for DeAngelo--at the beginning of the year hardly playing--then two/three months of so-so play in the AHL to finishing the season with the Rangers on a decimated defense with partners that for the most part don't fit that well. Maybe all that is why he doesn't seem quite as stable to me as Pionk. It might be that next year he breaks out. My one fear though is he turns into a version of Michael Del Zotto and it's not that MDZ is bad---he just never was able to put all the elements of his game together.

 

[Nopuckluck]

He barely scores either. He's on pace for like 21 points over an 82 game season. He's just not very good, in my opinion.

How good would you be playing with Ogara and the like.....shoot how good would Drew Doughty be playing with the partner ADa has?

 

[Nopuckluck]

To me DeAngelo is still a developing player and hardly a finished product. His best asset are his offensive skills though so far I would say he hasn't shown a lot of creativity--that may in part be due to the situations he was (or wasn't) in earlier in the season. Defensively he's not great--the Rangers haven't really paired him very much with a guy who pairs with him well. He needs someone big and mobile and very good defensively. Skjei and him could make a very good pairing but that might come at the expense of Skjei becoming more of a defensive rather than two way defenseman. Do we want that? I'm not sure I do.

In a way I kind of look at this as kind of a lost season for DeAngelo--at the beginning of the year hardly playing--then two/three months of so-so play in the AHL to finishing the season with the Rangers on a decimated defense with partners that for the most part don't fit that well. Maybe all that is why he doesn't seem quite as stable to me as Pionk. It might be that next year he breaks out. My one fear though is he turns into a version of Michael Del Zotto and it's not that MDZ is bad---he just never was able to put all the elements of his game together.

MDZ will probably play 1000 nhl games in his career. Not bad. If ADA turns into MDZ and we get Lias plus 6 million in cap space by removing Stephan then Gorton is a genius

 

[JayMan82]

He gets **** ice time and he's been extremely unlucky on the offensive end. He leads the team in individual shot attempts.

Not just the analytics, but the eye test alone shows me that the DeAngelo has all the goods. His poise with the puck is refreshing (especially having to deal with the hand grenade brothers over the years) and will only get better with experience.

I am hopeful that Shattenkirk can serve as a solid mentor to him (although he will likely take cycles away on the PP).

 

[eco's bones]

MDZ will probably play 1000 nhl games in his career. Not bad. If ADA turns into MDZ and we get Lias plus 6 million in cap space by removing Stephan then Gorton is a genius

Maybe he'll play that many. To me MDZ is a limited player. His size hurts him--his inability years ago to take the next step. His upside was about something that Yandle turned into. MDZ's turned more into Carlo Colaiacovo. He's always been a little less than dependable defensively and his offense never turned out as good as hoped. He's a bottom pairing guy on a not very good Vancouver team. He'll be aged out of the league in the next 3-4 years IMO. My hope is that DeAngelo turns out better than Del Zotto. That doesn't mean he will.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Can someone explain to me how, other than being offensive (with two totally different styles) and having a super Italian last name, DeAngelo has anything in common with MDZ?

To me this is no different than people who used to compare Duclair to Evander Kane.

 

[eco's bones]

Can someone explain to me how, other than being offensive (with two totally different styles) and having a super Italian last name, DeAngelo has anything in common with MDZ?

To me this is no different than people who used to compare Duclair to Evander Kane.

How about defensemen with size, strength and defensive issues? DZ and DeAngelo are similar in all those things. They are similar in being offense oriented defensemen and in that DZ was a younger defenseman when he was a Ranger as DeAngelo is now. Does that help? If you want a dissimilarity I would point to DeAngelo have more on ice attitude and edge and IMO he's a somewhat better skater too and a right shot not a left shot.

 

[Thirty One]

Can someone explain to me how, other than being offensive (with two totally different styles) and having a super Italian last name, DeAngelo has anything in common with MDZ?

To me this is no different than people who used to compare Duclair to Evander Kane.

I was told Duclair's closest comparables were Wayne Simmonds, P.K. Subban and Kevin Weekes.

 

[Moon Knight]

Can someone explain to me how, other than being offensive (with two totally different styles) and having a super Italian last name, DeAngelo has anything in common with MDZ?

To me this is no different than people who used to compare Duclair to Evander Kane.

They're both offensive-defensemen who simply don't put up enough points, which makes them kind of useless. DeAngelo is still young but I don't think its completely wrong to compare the two.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How good would you be playing with Ogara and the like.....shoot how good would Drew Doughty be playing with the partner ADa has?

How good would O'Gara be if he played with a better player than DeAngelo?

 

[Nopuckluck]

How good would O'Gara be if he played with a better player than DeAngelo?

Delusional much? If his last name was Deangelovich would you hate on him as much?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Delusional much? If his last name was Deangelovich would you hate on him as much?

Says the person who openly admits they dislike players due to nationality. Just because you have nationality biases doesn't mean others do.

 

[Nopuckluck]

Says the person who openly admits they dislike players due to nationality. Just because you have nationality biases doesn't mean others do.

I do because many times they are accurate

 

[Mac n Gs]

Says the person who openly admits they dislike players due to nationality. Just because you have nationality biases doesn't mean others do.

Just ignore TurgePurge. It’s so obvious that it’s him with a new account.

I forgot to reply to your original post a few pages back regarding his scoring: he looks like a totally different dmen if you split his stats pre-and-post AHL time. He’s a 0.33ppg player with barely any powerplay time and no goals right now. You’d expect that number to go up a bit, especially when 6 of those 8 points are primary. He really is just having some ridiculously bad luck.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Just ignore TurgePurge. It’s so obvious that it’s him with a new account.

I forgot to reply to your original post a few pages back regarding his scoring: he looks like a totally different dmen if you split his stats pre-and-post AHL time. He’s a 0.33ppg player with barely any powerplay time and no goals right now. You’d expect that number to go up a bit, especially when 6 of those 8 points are primary. He really is just having some ridiculously bad luck.

I've seen that said before, and if that is sustained for a full season with better puck luck, I think thats about the minimum he'd need to put up in terms of points to account for his awful defense. If he can put up 30 points over a full season, he's probably a #6D, but it can't be half a season of .33 and half a season of .2, thats not going to be good enough, considering how bad he defends.

 

[Edge]

I've seen that said before, and if that is sustained for a full season with better puck luck, I think thats about the minimum he'd need to put up in terms of points to account for his awful defense. If he can put up 30 points over a full season, he's probably a #6D, but it can't be half a season of .33 and half a season of .2, thats not going to be good enough, considering how bad he defends.

Unfortunately, ADA's long-term success is tied to production more than it is for some of our other young players. That's a bi-product of both ADA's size, his strength and his defensive abilities.

I think ADA still has second pairing upside, but I really need to see him in a different system than AV's.

ADA under the current setup is a no-win for all involved.

 

[JimmyG89]

Unfortunately, ADA's long-term success is tied to production more than it is for some of our other young players. That's a bi-product of both ADA's size, his strength and his defensive abilities.

I think ADA still has second pairing upside, but I really need to see him in a different system than AV's.

ADA under the current setup is a no-win for all involved.

It's hard to rate anyone on defense with this current system. There are some things you can, which are gap control and most of their reads off of rushes. I think DeAngelo has done quite fine in these situations, and he's been much better since his call-up.

In-zone defense is much harder to rate because they are asking for the defense to do a lot. Pretty much the entire defense struggles once the other team gets the puck down low. That could be because of their lack of size and team overpowering them, but they rarely have an easy breakout once they do get the puck because of where the wingers and center is in the zone.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I've seen that said before, and if that is sustained for a full season with better puck luck, I think thats about the minimum he'd need to put up in terms of points to account for his awful defense. If he can put up 30 points over a full season, he's probably a #6D, but it can't be half a season of .33 and half a season of .2, thats not going to be good enough, considering how bad he defends.

That was me

He hasn’t been awfully defensive either since the call up. SA16 posted it, but his on-ice save% is like 89% this year when his expected save% is nearly 93%. I’d bet money that his numbers rebound next year

 

[eco's bones]

I was told Duclair's closest comparables were Wayne Simmonds, P.K. Subban and Kevin Weekes.

You know there's another way to look at DeAngelo and Del Zotto besides their Italian last names--for instance one's a Canadian from the Toronto metro area and the other is an American from the greater Philadelphia area. If I were looking at nationality I might look at that first. I mean it's not likely that either is going to be playing for the Italian Olympic team anytime soon.

 

[Edge]

MDZ, flaws and all, already had 200 some odd NHL games under his belt at this point --- including a 37 point and 41 point campaign.

ADA has some work to do.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

How about defensemen with size, strength and defensive issues? DZ and DeAngelo are similar in all those things. They are similar in being offense oriented defensemen and in that DZ was a younger defenseman when he was a Ranger as DeAngelo is now. Does that help? If you want a dissimilarity I would point to DeAngelo have more on ice attitude and edge and IMO he's a somewhat better skater too and a right shot not a left shot.

Did MDZ really have strength issues when he came into the league? Dude was and still is very solid on his skates; I remember him nailing some people his rookie year. Most of his offense was generated by his stretch pass, as he was a subpar skater (only describing NYR MDZ here) - vastly different than ADA. He also played a few seasons when he was legitimately a good defender, 2011-2012 being the most notable.

I guess my main point was it just seems like a lazy comparison. It’s also not fair, because despite having a nice career thus far, MDZ is maligned because of his inconsistency and pretty boy look.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

I was told Duclair's closest comparables were Wayne Simmonds, P.K. Subban and Kevin Weekes.

I saw a few Willie O’Ree comparisons back in the day as well.

 

[stan the caddy]

The current DeAngelo situation has a lot of similarities to the MDZ situation. Del Zotto was a "promising" young talent that basically hurt the Rangers because he was so bad during his development. He was polarizing, some people thought he was going to be the next Leetch and others wanted him sent down.

I see a lot of people projecting DeAngelo to be a pp qb. His offense has been pretty terrible up to this point. MDZ actually flashed a lot of offense early.

 

[UnSandvich]

And of course now he’s hurt