Player Discussion Tomas Plekanec - Hope He Heats Up Soon Edition (HE SLEEPIN)

[PaulD]

What you don't understand is that Plekanec is playing against other team's top lines all the time while McCarron is out there against the other team's 4th line...

Oh there is certainly some one who does not "understand"

 

[417]

At this point, you shouldn't look at it like this. Plekanec is out there to neutralize the other team top guns, and he did it tonight.

Our top line sucked, they didn't create anything offensively and got scored 2 times against... Shaw line got scored against once also...

They're not paying Plekanec 6M simply and exclusively to 'shut down' other players.

Firstly, he doesn't shut down anyone by himself, he is not nor has he ever been that type of player

Secondly, at his salary, he's expected to contribute at both ends of the ice.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Yes, congrats to him on shutting down.... Jordan Staal.

And super congrats to Danault for being -2 against worse than Staal, I guess?

 

[NotProkofievian]

And super congrats to Danault for being -2 against worse than Staal, I guess?

Better than Galchenyuk, because faceoffs.

 

[LastWordArmy]

Better than Galchenyuk, because faceoffs.

Faceoffs are so ridiculously overrated.

Basically we track faceoffs, but we don't track every other battle for a loose puck that happens over the course of a game. And that is all a faceoff really is, two guys battling for a loose puck. It just so happens that it is the start of a play and not in the middle of one, but other than that, there is really no difference from a faceoff and every other puck battle.

Winning battles for loose pucks is clearly important, don't get me wrong. But the idea that a faceoff is more important than other battles is wrong.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Eat a snickers or something... He took Stall with him in the invisible land last night.

Since when is Jordan Staal a legit threat of a center? He is only good enough to flirt with 50 when everything goes right and he hasn't hit even or eclipsed that number since he was with Pittsburgh, and he hasn't done it even after a promotion since his big brother is no longer in Carolina.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Since when is Jordan Staal a legit threat of a center? He is only good enough to flirt with 50 when everything goes right and he hasn't hit even or eclipsed that number since he was with Pittsburgh, and he hasn't done it even after a promotion since his big brother is no longer in Carolina.

He's their #1 centre, and he was a non-factor outside the faceoff dot.

 

[Toene]

Faceoffs are so ridiculously overrated.

Basically we track faceoffs, but we don't track every other battle for a loose puck that happens over the course of a game. And that is all a faceoff really is, two guys battling for a loose puck. It just so happens that it is the start of a play and not in the middle of one, but other than that, there is really no difference from a faceoff and every other puck battle.

Winning battles for loose pucks is clearly important, don't get me wrong. But the idea that a faceoff is more important than other battles is wrong.

Well Chucky and Plekanec are as horrible in faceoffs than in 1 on 1 battles. Theyre so soft.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Faceoffs are so ridiculously overrated.

Basically we track faceoffs, but we don't track every other battle for a loose puck that happens over the course of a game. And that is all a faceoff really is, two guys battling for a loose puck. It just so happens that it is the start of a play and not in the middle of one, but other than that, there is really no difference from a faceoff and every other puck battle.

Winning battles for loose pucks is clearly important, don't get me wrong. But the idea that a faceoff is more important than other battles is wrong.

Sorry, I forgot the .

Another interesting thing is that if you regress expected goals on faceoffs, the coefficient you get is some ridiculously small number. Mathletic probably has the exact numbers but basically it's something like 1 extra expected goal for every 100 faceoffs won. It's a typical thing when you regress a rare event (goals) on a common event (faceoffs). Not sure what the coefficient would look like if you did the regression the other way around. That is, among goals, how many happened as a direct result of a won faceoff. But as you say, a faceoff is just a puck battle.

 

[Lebowski]

Faceoffs are so ridiculously overrated.

Basically we track faceoffs, but we don't track every other battle for a loose puck that happens over the course of a game. And that is all a faceoff really is, two guys battling for a loose puck. It just so happens that it is the start of a play and not in the middle of one, but other than that, there is really no difference from a faceoff and every other puck battle.

Winning battles for loose pucks is clearly important, don't get me wrong. But the idea that a faceoff is more important than other battles is wrong.

I don't think faceoffs are overrated, but I'd say they're getting overstated when it comes to assessing Galchenyuk's effectiveness as a center.

It's common for inexperienced centers at the NHL level to struggle on face-offs. Galchenyuk is tracking pretty much exactly as expected in that regard. Only people that seem surprised by him not being near 50% already are the same that probably thought playing him mostly on the wing for 4 years wouldn't prevent him from becoming a good center down the road.

You look at some of the point leaders at center in the league...

McDavid 43.7%
Crosby 48.2%
Scheifele 43.4%
Malkin 43.1%
Couture 39.3%
Eichel 39.8%

Galchenyuk 42.4%

Where's the issue? 42% isn't great by any means, but it shouldn't be a surprise either.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Plekanec 1 goal in last 22 games. 1 assist in last 20 games.

Lars Eller 0 goals in last 19. 1 assist in last 15.

What a terrific 2C/3C punch that would have been

 

[Belial]

They're not paying Plekanec 6M simply and exclusively to 'shut down' other players.

Firstly, he doesn't shut down anyone by himself, he is not nor has he ever been that type of player

Secondly, at his salary, he's expected to contribute at both ends of the ice.

Can you forget for a second his salary? We all know he's overpaid.

You keep saying that he's not a good shutdown guy while night after night he manages to neutralize the opponents top lines...

 

[417]

Can you forget for a second his salary? We all know he's overpaid.

He's the teams highest paid forward and has 8 goals in 70+ games this year...

How in the hell do you want me to 'forget' his salary?

Other than helping you make your point, what would be the purpose of that?

His salary matters unfortunately...we can't ignore that. It's not everything, but again, as the highest paid forward on the team, it can't be ignored as part of his evaluation. I mean he's got 25pts in 71 games this year, he's not going to get 30pts, even I as one of his biggest critics, didn't think he wouldn't be able to get 30pts.

He's trending to have a worst year offensively than Desharnais had last year and everyone wanted to run him out of town (rightfully so).

I don't know of any other player on any other team, who fans would ignore the salary of their highest paid forward, if he was producing at the same rate as Plekanec has.

Sorry man, can't ignore whats staring at you directly in the face. If Plekanec had been able to contribute a bit more offensively, I might be more willing to forget his salary, but he hasn't.

You keep saying that he's not a good shutdown guy while night after night he manages to neutralize the opponents top lines...

I did NOT say that's he not a good shutdown guy...I think in the past, he was a pretty good 2 way forward. Not in the Begeron/Kopitar/Toews level...more like a notch below while in his prime.

But today, he IMO, is not a shut down forward in any sense.

When you say HE manages to 'neutralize the opponents top lines'...I can't take that seriously because no SINGLE player, not even Bergeron, shut down entire lines by themselves.

I'd argue the greatest shut down player this team has is Shea Weber and he does a lot of the heavy lifting in that area.

 

[The Nightman]

He has three more points than Zack Kassian. Leave him alone... And forget about his salary!

 

[Belial]

He's the teams highest paid forward and has 8 goals in 70+ games this year...

How in the hell do you want me to 'forget' his salary?

Other than helping you make your point, what would be the purpose of that?

His salary matters unfortunately...we can't ignore that. It's not everything, but again, as the highest paid forward on the team, it can't be ignored as part of his evaluation. I mean he's got 25pts in 71 games this year, he's not going to get 30pts, even I as one of his biggest critics, didn't think he wouldn't be able to get 30pts.

He's trending to have a worst year offensively than Desharnais had last year and everyone wanted to run him out of town (rightfully so).

I don't know of any other player on any other team, who fans would ignore the salary of their highest paid forward, if he was producing at the same rate as Plekanec has.

Sorry man, can't ignore whats staring at you directly in the face. If Plekanec had been able to contribute a bit more offensively, I might be more willing to forget his salary, but he hasn't.



I did NOT say that's he not a good shutdown guy...I think in the past, he was a pretty good 2 way forward. Not in the Begeron/Kopitar/Toews level...more like a notch below while in his prime.

But today, he IMO, is not a shut down forward in any sense.

When you say HE manages to 'neutralize the opponents top lines'...I can't take that seriously because no SINGLE player, not even Bergeron, shut down entire lines by themselves.

I'd argue the greatest shut down player this team has is Shea Weber and he does a lot of the heavy lifting in that area.

I don't see the point in bringing up his salary all the time. I said it he's overpaid!

It doesn't mean he sucks as a player. His offense is not there anymore but he's still solid in all the other aspects of the game.

You know that the center is the most important piece when we talk about the defensive game. I'm not saying he does it alone out there but he's the main ingredient on that shutdown line. You can change the wingers and he will still be able to do a good job.

 

[Habs]

what an absolute garbage, floating, hockey players. The guys in the room must shake their heads every time this putz is penciled in, given an A, and given ice time.

 

[417]

I don't see the point in bringing up his salary all the time. I said it he's overpaid!

It doesn't mean he sucks as a player. His offense is not there anymore but he's still solid in all the other aspects of the game.

You know that the center is the most important piece when we talk about the defensive game. I'm not saying he does it alone out there but he's the main ingredient on that shutdown line. You can change the wingers and he will still be able to do a good job.

Yes...I can see why you not want to discuss his salary or offensive contributions when discussing Plekanec

It's not convenient for you in relation to your stance...but again, you can't ignore his salary just like I can't ignore his contributions defensively (while they're overstated IMO, he is good in his own zone).

If you're going to evaluate a player...we can't pick and choose what is relevant and what's not because it's convenient

 

[digmor crusher]

Of course his salary matters, everyone's does. But I hope the guys that keep repeating this aren't the ones who want to sign Radulov to a 7 or 8 year deal and say its ok to eat his salary the last 3 or 4 years of the deal when his production drops dramatically. Double standard much?

 

[417]

Of course his salary matters, everyone's does. But I hope the guys that keep repeating this aren't the ones who want to sign Radulov to a 7 or 8 year deal and say its ok to eat his salary the last 3 or 4 years of the deal when his production drops dramatically. Double standard much?

that's certainly not me...I've been very vocal about signing Radulov to anything more than a 3yr deal.

 

[Hackett]

Plekanec can still be a useful player in this league, but in a more limited role. He should no longer be counted on to provide offense. It turns out that the habs milked that cow a little too long.

 

[sheed36]

It must break Geoff Molson's heart watching Pleks play hockey this year knowing he's paying the guy 7 million dollars to look this awful. To make him feel even worse is he's also gonna be paying him 5 million dollars next year.

 

[Habs]

Plekanec can still be a useful player in this league, but in a more limited role. He should no longer be counted on to provide offense. It turns out that the habs milked that cow a little too long.

How can you be useful, in a limited role?

 

[Belial]

How can you be useful, in a limited role?

The same way he's being useful for us... Penalty kill, shutdown role.

 

[The Nightman]

Of course his salary matters, everyone's does. But I hope the guys that keep repeating this aren't the ones who want to sign Radulov to a 7 or 8 year deal and say its ok to eat his salary the last 3 or 4 years of the deal when his production drops dramatically. Double standard much?

I haven't see many around here advocating for Radulov to be signed for 7-8 years, more so 5-6 which is fairly reasonable to expect imo. Either way, Plekanec with his god awful play on the ice and his even worse contract wasting away cap space is hurting us at a crucial time, that being our supposed cup "window". Where we have Weber, Price, Pacioretty and Radulov still in the prime of their careers. Not sure the extra 1-2 years on Radulov's deal will end up hurting us as much, when you take into consideration our current group of core guys will be past their primes and beginning to decline by then. Of course though, much can still happen from now until then.

 

[peate]

The same way he's being useful for us... Penalty kill, shutdown role.

Cow cookies. You don't pay someone 6 million bucks for a shutdown role, sorry. He plainly sucks..