Really gives you an idea of how little faith the Rangers have in Hunwick, Kostka, Allen, and McIlrath.
...and justifiably so.
...and justifiably so.
Speculation: Tomas Kaberle to Skate with NYR -- Kaberle Rejects Extended PTO. Is UFA (11/17)
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pld459666
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seems to me that they want to see him in a game or two and make a decision.
The fact that they gave him a PTO after a few practices leads me to believe they saw something that piqured their interest and want to see what he can do in a live fire situation.
He'll get top pairing minutes at ES and PP and get to see his decision making off his reads.
If they like what they see, he gets a deal. If not, no deal.
pretty simple.
TheTakedown
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That's what I am saying... Old and slow, perhaps, but the guy is a veteran, and knows the game... I hate to say it but you cannot be worse than Mike Kostka at the NHL level..
Basically means they will sign him to a short PTO to get a feel for how he handles pro hockey in today's game... if he excels in HFD, more than likely he gets a minimum deal.
I'm in agreement with this... He is most likely insurnace Hunwick, which we all know Kostka is not...
I am still kind of hopeful they look into Sami Salo as well... guy just played 70 games LAST YEAR, and had a +/- of +11, on an average Tampa Defense. Giving him 7th or 8th duties allows him to stay healthy, and have us keep an NHL defenseman on the roster at minimum cost.
Very much enjoy how Kostka continues to get singled out thanks almost entirely to the turnovers vs. the Islanders.
Your sentence should also include Hunwick, McIlrath, and Allen, to be fair.
Seems pretty clear the Rangers want some more options at 7th D, or at least some experience there, but I'd be pretty surprised if Kaberle was int he lineup when all the regulars are healthy. He wasn't terribly good the last time he played int he NHL
Yes, and I think you can add John Moore to that list. I think Hunwick has outplayed Moore this season. Now, with that being said, we have all seen John Moore play at a level (2013 playoffs) that Hunwick can only dream of reaching. It's what makes Moore so frustrating to watch.
Agreed. I think Moore has all the physical tools to be a very good player, but hes got 10 cent head.
I suppose every team has a wildcard at the #6 spot, but a couple of injuries and the Rangers are in a very bad spot on the blue line very quickly.
BBKers
Registered User
Signing Kaberle or Salo as a cheap #7 is not all bad if they can still play. which is more questionable. Hunwick would go down to Hartford (or possibly be part of a trade) to give Hartford quite an impressive AHL D
Kostka - Hunwick
McIllraith - Allen
Bodie - Hughes
I am pretty sure we will be seeing another trade or two this season anyways...
Sather wanteth Cup
Kostka - Hunwick
McIllraith - Allen
Bodie - Hughes
I am pretty sure we will be seeing another trade or two this season anyways...
Sather wanteth Cup
Raspewtin
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You can apply this narrative to literally every team in the NHL.
Which is why I don't understand the incessant harping on this team not being super deep on NHL ready defenders. Obviously they aren't, no team is.
Most teams don't have half of their top 6 go down/be suspended in the early part of the season -- and while I dont necessarily disagree with you, I think most teams keep hope that "Player X in the minors can step in and contribute" --- you see it here all the time. Plenty of people thought Allen could step in for Staal, which is ludicrous in every sense.
Im actually sort of happy the Rangers got the reality check early in the season that their depth defensemen aren't suitable.
Raspewtin
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I kind of understand the point of "you want an up and comer to fill in for injuries" shtick, but most of these d-men don't get the chance you're looking for from coaches, and rightfully so. Why would you jerk around a prospect when you can take an established player, who's development is irrelevant to the organization, and have him fill in for a game or two? It's not ideal player development, especially for d-men.
They aren't suitable for what? Taking top 4 minutes? Obviously not, they'd be on NHL teams if they were. You could argue for relative to what was expected of them, Hunwick and to a much lesser extent Kostka have done great jobs filling in. Hunwick isn't even on the roster with our D healthy, and he's supposed to look good playing 21 a night?
If the only d-man gone was John Moore, nobody would complain about Hunwick me thinks. Him and players like him are supposed to fill in for the bottom pair, while the player that would usually be in that spot takes on more minutes. But you get a double whammy with Moore and McDonagh hurt, and Hunwick had to take more minutes. I'm not sure what kind of ideal d-man you want for a fill in, Hunwick's probably as good as it gets.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Because people have been harping on the idea that Connor Allen or Dylan McIrath could easily replace a Stralman or Staal. And no we're hearing rumblings of the same about Brady Skjei.
Kind of like the people who proclaimed during the lockout that JT Miller was more than ready to be the team's 3C.
Bottom line: Depth is more than just being able to name guys.
Raspewtin
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Connor Allen replacing Staal was always laughable and even moreso now.
I don't think anybody actually advocated for McIlrath to replace Stralman, but the idea was Klein moves up and McIlrath takes bottom pair duties. Which really isn't far fetched.
There was overwhelming evidence that JT Miller could replace Richards as 3C, and he didn't. He's still got plenty of time at age 21. You can't always be right. Though I'll admit, we're rather lucky Hayes has looked real good as a center.
TheTakedown
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They've all been bad... But kostka has been the worst...
In hunwicks case, the two goals he was directly responsible for against thr leafs were
1: first was due to a putzo play by Zucc and a horrible follow up
2. Second was due to complete lack of forward support, which gave him minimal options to leave the zone.. I say minimal because he had options, but you don't leave a rookie defenseman in the zone like that.
Kostka was also directly responsible for 2 goals
1: first was up the middle through traffic, completely unforced turnover, isles score
2: second was literally the exact same play..
That's both of their worst games
Haven't seen enough of Allen to judge. But he is no more than a 7th right now
I also happen to believe that hunwick is a better skater, so just for that, I'd take him over Kostka
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
It is far-fetched when you consider he's been relegated back to Hartford the minute any other defender has been able to go.
Overwhelming evidence comes when the player demonstrates he can perform in that role. My point is there are too many people who are willing to throw a young and cheap name into the lineup and proclaim that person ready to play simply because he hasn't shown that he can't.
Again, depth is more than just being able to list a bunch of names.
TheTakedown
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I think theyre trying to give him minutes and not rush his development... it is what it is... We have great defenders on the right side at this time. Putting McIlrath on the left would be short sighted... yeah lets make the kid play out of position just so he fits on the NHL club
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Just because it didn't work out doesn't make it far fetched. Penciling in unproven players is pretty common throughout the league. I don't understand why people act like it is something rare and unheard of.
Injury depth is exactly being able to list a bunch of names. A bunch of names you *hope* can fill in as needed. If you knew they could play then they would be in a top 6 somewhere. That was true even before the salary cap.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
And it rarely works out. Prospects should be knocking down the door.
I'm not talking about injury depth.
haveandare
Registered User
Based on what? Hunwick has played an awful lot of minutes for a 7d and he had two noticeably bad plays, one of which was a result of just horrendous support from the forwards. He's a fine 7d choice. As good as anyone in that position IMO.
Mcilrath had less than ten minutes of ice time. Nobody can possibly say that he is or isn't a decent call up for a game or two in the case of injury based on that.
Allen was very meh, but again, it was a tiny, tiny sample size where he was thrown into a team missing half it's d.
Kostka is bad and just shouldn't be up ever again barring a serious rash of injuries.
Despite all of this, I'd be downright surprised to see Kaberle be an improvement on any of these guys. He hasn't played anything even resembling a normal amount of NHL games in a long time. And he's not a kid with potential or a decent middle aged player who needs a change or scenery. He's almost certainly done.
Not all unproven players are created equal. I mean it was one thing to pencil in Anisimov or Korpi after they put up excellent offensive numbers in their final AHL seasons and showed that the defensive side of their game was fully developed. It's entirely different to be counting on promotions for Allen or McIlrath who are merely doing well at that level. One would think that Kreider's difficulties in securing a place after a great rookie run in the play-offs and Miller falling on his face after having a spot almost reserved for him this year would make fans a lot more cautious about young players.
Another thing is expectations. It's one thing for a team like Buffalo to make an easy path for rookies. It's also easier to justify with a bubble team, like the Rangers were during most of Torts years. This team needs/wants to get back to the finals and finally win it. The circumstances are very different.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
If he shows something, I have zero issue signing him. If he doesn't, let him go. All I care about is helping the team. If Kaberle can be a good #6/7, so be it.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
You think? (That sarcasm isn't directed at you)
McIlrath was the last demotion after camp. When a RD defensive defenseman got injured, he was the first call up. When the RD defensive defenseman came back, he was sent back down.
Maybe Kaberle is more of an indictment on Allen than McIlrath, but there's nothing about the situation that says anything more than "we can afford to not yank these guys around right now. Let them keep getting big Hartford minutes."
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What does that even mean? Obviously the Rangers wouldn't pencil in players like Allen or McIlrath if they had not performed to expectations at the AHL level. Which probably why the Rangers had 6 D-men coming into camp and signed through next year.
But what constitutes "knocking down the door"? How much success at a lower level does a player need to attain before it is no longer far fetched that he can beat out a veteran for an open spot? Look at the difference between a player like JT Miller and Brandon Dubinsky. Miller out produced Dubinsky in the AHL by a huge margin. Both had great camps. Both were pencilied in as bottom 6 players. One couldnt stick at all, the other ended up centering our top line. Which one would have been closer to "knocking down the door"? Miller? Neither?
You can't tell if a player will succeed until he is at the NHL level. The best you can do is hope he can win a position battle. Either one you purposely create or one that opens up on its own. And if not that you have an adequate replacement until he is ready or someone passes him on the depth chart.
I don't know what you are talking about when you mention replacing Staal or Stralman with Allen or McIlrath. I don't know if that is straw man argument, something Bernmeister or some other fringe element of this board came up with or if you are transposing what people think could happen down the road to the here and now.
But injury depth is exactly what Raspewtin was talking about when you responded to his post. We are talking about 7th, 8th and 9th defensemen. Players that would not play except in case of injury. That's exactly what Allen, McIlrath, Kostka and Hunwick are.
The Rangers top 6 is McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Boyle, Klein and Moore. Any plan to replace a member of that group with Allen, McIlrath, Kostka or Hunwick would probably be news to the Rangers management. At least this year. Who knows what the team will even look like next year.
If the Rangers' management felt this way, they wouldn't be snooping around on Kaberle, period.
I don't necessarily disagree about Hunwick, although hes been very inconsistent. The "small sample size" argument around McIlrath and Allen is pure bunk. These guys arent NHL'ers at this point. Let them go back to the minors where posters can continue to pin their hopes and dreams on them, because the reality of the situation is much harsher.
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