Tom Wilson hit on Sundqvist: Suspended 20 games

[Dreakmur]

Which is why rule 48.1 accounts for those circumstances.

Seriously, it should be required reading for anyone posting in a thread about an illegal check to the head.

The biggest problem is that the rule is far from clear and extremely inconsistent applied. Nodody really knows on these plays.

 

[Cellee]

They need the speaker from QB helmets for Wilson.

"Don't do it, Tom" " That will be another suspension"

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

The biggest problem is that the rule is far from clear and extremely inconsistent applied. Nodody really knows on these plays.

You're actually probably half right there. The wording in the rulebook could be better and it could be called more consistently. I'm not sure that's what you actually want though. That would result in more players being held accountable for their actions. It's more likely that you just want Tom Wilson off the hook here, but really, this is one of the more clear cut plays you're going to see. If Wilson doesn't know if this is illegal or not he should stop throwing body checks.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Every player that shoots on the net is in the vulnerable position. Are you suggesting NHL should ban hits when player shoots?

Why is no one else finding themselves in this situation time and time again?

'every player that shoots on net' Yet seemingly when this stuff happens it always includes Wilson... weird

 

[Riptide]

Raffi Torres could not stop doing this (Matt Cooke toned it down somewhat toward the end of his career) and it ended his career.

I would argue Wilson may be the most talented of the three but he’s going right down the same path and, in this day and age, it’s going to be more of a problem than it ever was for Cooke or Torres.

Matt Cooke did turn it down later on... unfortunately doing so neutered his effectiveness, and he went from being a great 3rd liner to a very average one. You wouldn't really know it from his stats, but when Lemieux came down on him and told him to smarten up, it changed his game and how he played it and he wasn't really the same after that. And while that's good in terms of some of the shit he did do on the ice, it's not great for his game. Sounds like a shitty thing to say, but that's the truth.

Wilson is easily the most talented of the three. He has the size and speed to go with some skill to change his game slightly. Not "stop hitting", just "stop trying to murder everyone he hits with high hits".

 

[Riptide]

Right, you have to make A hit. Not THAT hit. I've been lit the **** up for having my head down with the puck, but it was always a shoulder/hands square to the middle of my chest or shoulder. It's not hard to NOT make this kind predatory, injurious hit.

As was stated previously, there's a difference between hitting to separate a man from the puck (what checking is for), and what Wilson did there, which was hitting to "send a message" and hurt a guy. Those are the ones that need to go -- not ALL hitting as some of the more vocal contingent like to insist is being called for.

Thanks, I think you knew that's what I meant, but thank you for spelling it out. Sincerely.

 

[stl76]

Canuck or not is not the issue. The guy shouldnt have skated with his head down like that, Wilson just completed his hockey hit. Tell the Blues to get their crummy coaches to properly coach their head down players to play the game properly ffs, why is hockey now changing for the idiotic victim instead of hard fought honest smart hockey?? Wth not even saying Wilson is hard or honest, but he just tried to hit a guy in the d zone no problem

Yeah, I'm sure it's just his unique kinetic energy... not the fact that he came in from behind and blind sided the guy getting mostly head. Give me a break.

It seems like you're still not getting it. I'm not saying Wilson should change his course milliseconds before the hit happens, I'm saying he shouldn't make the hit period. If you're coming from behind to blindside a player with his head down and you're going fast enough that you can't control getting nothing but head, you either shouldn't be making the check or be prepared for the lengthy suspension that comes with it. Just because it's possible to throw a check doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Couple things. 1) the poster you're quoting is a child. 2) this child has an irrational hatred of the St. Louis Blues for reasons known only to him (tho we Blues fans do have fun speculating as to the reasons for this hatred). 3) I very much doubt he or she would take their position on this hit if it were not against a Blues player.

 

[Dreakmur]

You're actually probably half right there. The wording in the rulebook could be better and it could be called more consistently. I'm not sure that's what you actually want though. That would result in more players being held accountable for their actions. It's more likely that you just want Tom Wilson off the hook here, but really, this is one of the more clear cut plays you're going to see. If Wilson doesn't know if this is illegal or not he should stop throwing body checks.

Yes and no. I have zero interest in Tom Wilson specifically. I do, however, want to see players making a hit in this situation.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Can the folks defending Wilson explain why other players who are known for throwing hard hits, and a lot of hits, don't repeatedly throw these questionable hits?

If it's just a case of "this is what happens when you hit hard", then shouldn't a lot of the top hitters in the league constantly be hearing from the DoPS?

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

Yes and no. I have zero interest in Tom Wilson specifically. I do, however, want to see players making a hit in this situation.

Ah, so you're a psychopath who wants to see players suffer serious head injuries. Gotcha!

 

[Dreakmur]

Ah, so you're a psychopath who wants to see players suffer serious head injuries. Gotcha!

Exactly....

 

[pbgoalie]

Yeah, it’s not that simple. When bodies collide, they bend and twist. You can hit shoulder and the head snaps forward and makes contact. Is that head contact?

When guys see contact coming, they react differently, which is basically impossible to predict. Some guys freeze. Some guys brace. Some guys try to dodge. I have no idea how I am supposed to avoid making contact with a part of the body that I’m not really sure exactly where it’s goinf to be.

Yup, and sometimes it makes me insane when people turn into the boards putting themselves in a dangerous position at the last second....

But if you’re going to try to light up someone AND miss, or hit the head, then too bad, sit out. Seems that ridiculous majority of hits avoid the suspension potential. Also seems to be a handful of frequent offenders

 

[Riptide]

Why should it be Wilson’s problem if some idiot cruises through the middle with his head down? You want to have players only make checks on players who are ready?

I mean, I tried to play clean, and play within the rules, but if if going to hit somebody, it was as well leave a mark, right?

And personally I agree with that. Just don't hit him in the head. And especially don't mostly/just get the head. If Wilson had managed to hit Sundqvist's shoulder instead of his head, most here would be applauding a legal and devastating hit. Perhaps one that we should still get rid of, but it would be legal within the rules of the NHL (at least their current ones). But Wilson didn't do that. He missed the shoulder and hit Sundqvist in the head. That's why he's getting a suspension, and it's well deserved.

As for why it's Wilson's problem, because ultimately he's responsible to ensure that when he hits someone, it's clean. And if it's not, he will get suspended.

 

[shtorm2005]

If you're coming from behind to blindside a player with his head down and you're going fast enough that you can't control getting nothing but head, you either shouldn't be making the check or be prepared for the lengthy suspension that comes with it. Just because it's possible to throw a check doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You want to ban risky bodychecks, but every one is risky when your target can change his position because he decides to shoot the very last moment.

 

[HanSolo]

Are you agreeing or disagreeing?

Did he had his head up and was vulnerable? Did he have his head down and was not vulnerable?

This logic doesn't follow. He was vulnerable because his attention wasn't on anything but getting the puck on net. That doesn't mean his head was down the whole time. Regardless, it doesn't matter one lick to what Wilson did. You trying to invent this reality that Wilson threw a legal on-body check doesn't make that reality valid.

 

[Riptide]

You really think this guy shouldn’t get hit when he cuts across the slot with his head down? Pretend it wasn’t Tom Wilson.... you still think this is a dirty play?

The hitter wouldn't have received the same suspension that Wilson is going to get, but they would almost certainly still be suspended. Wilson is going to get more due to him having already gotten 3 in the past 53 weeks. The issue is that even if it wasn't Wilson, it's still a dirty hit. Bottom line is the hit missed the shoulder and got mostly head and very little body. That's an illegal hit in today's NHL.

I think guys who cut across the slot should get hit - just legally and ideally not in the head (although you can do the latter and still be legal - just not how Wilson did it).

 

[Riptide]

This is such a dumb false dichotomy. <snip>

It's almost as if there's a middle ground between trying to murder a player in a vulnerable position and throwing a good, clean body check. A guy can get hit when he's cutting across the slot as long as it's a legal check.

Are you sure? I mean it's not like we see those all that often... ... ... ... oh wait! Yeah never mind we do see that fairly regularly - just not with Wilson. There's a reason everyone says not to cross the blueline like that... because guys who cross the blueline like that frequently get clobbered. Except we're not seeing a ton of suspensions from those hits... why? Because the hitter seems to find a way to do it legally.

This was a check where Wilson’s shoulder hit both the opponent’s shoulder and head. We’ll never agree if it was more head or more shoulder, so let’s just agree it was clearly both. It’s like 1 inch from being pure shoulder to shoulder, and it’s like 1 inch from being a pure head shot.

No. Look at the physics of the hit. If Wilson had gotten more shoulder then head, Sundqvist wouldn't have spun like a top when he was hit. Wilson barely touched the shoulder and clobbered him in the head. That's why he's getting suspended.

 

[shtorm2005]

Couple things. 1) the poster you're quoting is a child. 2) this child has an irrational hatred of the St. Louis Blues for reasons known only to him (tho we Blues fans do have fun speculating as to the reasons for this hatred). 3) I very much doubt he or she would take their position on this hit if it were not against a Blues player.

I'm not a child. I might sound like it, but it's only because English is my 3rd language. I wonder why it's hard to guess why I don't like Blues? Already forgot Kempny? And no, I would still try to explain why Wilson's style of play cannot be 100% safe, no matter against who. I watch Caps for 10+ years, so it's obvious that Im a little bit biased fan.

 

[mouser]

You can’t have it both ways here.... either he had his head down and was vulnerable, or he didn’t have his head down.

I mean, I think he’s fair game regardless, but still....

Just make all body checking illegal...,

You're attempting to create a false straw man argument.

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

You want to ban risky bodychecks, but every one is risky when your target can change his position because he decides to shoot the very last moment.

The NHL already bans risky body checks, that's why hits from behind and clipping will get you a major penalty. It's funny that you use the idea of banning risky bodychecks as some kind of absurd reaction to the issue of head shots. The rulebook around body checks exists to eliminate the risk of injury.
Anyways, at this point I'm just repeating myself. If you're throwing a hit that hinges on a player not shooting the puck (something players with the puck tend to do) to not seriously injure them, you probably shouldn't be making the hit. The issue isn't that Sundqvist shot "at the last second," the issue is that Wilson went full force into a blindside hit and went high carrying high risk of injury if things didn't go "right." There's a reason that only a handful of players seem to continually get in trouble for stuff like this and it's not because of their superhuman kinetic energy. If there's high risk of concussing a player if they happen to shoot or pass the puck, don't make the hit or at the very least, don't go into the hit like a god damn freight train. You'll have other opportunities to throw hard, clean bodychecks and you're not breaking up an offensive chance.

 

[Riptide]

The biggest problem is that the rule is far from clear and extremely inconsistent applied. Nodody really knows on these plays.

Actually people do know. You can watch the video and slow it down. And you can see how the hittie reacts. You choosing to bury your head in the sand doesn't change the facts of the matter.

He did make shoulder to shoulder contact. There was also shoulder to head contact. We’re talking an inch between what you say would have been a perfect hit and what people are apparently seeing as attempted murder.

Probably more like 2-4 inches, but yes, inches non the less. And if Wilson can't time his hits right, then that means he needs to slow down and be more in control. Being reckless and out of control is no excuse. You'd figure that he would have learned that by now after getting suspended three times last season, but apparently not, because here we are yet again.

 

[Riptide]

Yes and no. I have zero interest in Tom Wilson specifically. I do, however, want to see players making a hit in this situation.

Most do, and most do not get suspended. But they also get a hell of a lot more of the body then Wilson did in this instance.

 

[Beville]

He should be allowed to play in the game devoted to the cup raising banner. Ban him for a game or 2 after that one

Absolutely not.

He lost that right when he decided to go headshotting.

 

[Dreakmur]

Are you sure? I mean it's not like we see those all that often... ... ... ... oh wait! Yeah never mind we do see that fairly regularly - just not with Wilson. There's a reason everyone says not to cross the blueline like that... because guys who cross the blueline like that frequently get clobbered. Except we're not seeing a ton of suspensions from those hits... why? Because the hitter seems to find a way to do it legally.



No. Look at the physics of the hit. If Wilson had gotten more shoulder then head, Sundqvist wouldn't have spun like a top when he was hit. Wilson barely touched the shoulder and clobbered him in the head. That's why he's getting suspended.

It’s funny, I looked at how he spun and thought that was evidence that he got a big chunk of body instead of just head....

 

[JoVel]

They use per hour data which is not correct. If you compare per trip data, driving is much safer.

I don't even want to know how this discussion got started but to have a 1km car trip and a 1000km car trip rated the same based on safety is about as dumb as it gets.