Tom Wilson appeal last 7 hours, Bettman to make ruling in a week. (upd: suspension upheld)

[bluesfan94]

The NHLPA a union, Sundqvist is a nobody while Wilson is a Cup Champion.

Most unions will care about one thing "who makes more money? We have to stand behind the one making the most money". Unions don't protect their members, they protect their interests first, if that comes at the expense of a member, so be it.

I don't think that's fair at all. A lot of unions care about their members. But when one member asks a union to appeal on his behalf, the union must do whatever they think will be most successful in his defense

 

[serp]

... ok.

I feel like I’m trying to have a conversation about the complexities and necessary evils of a fair defense and you want to operate exclusively in the realm of “Wilson bad man”

Its not even a good defensive strategy . Not sure if thats how Wilson wanted to play it but "there was nothing he could've done" and "he put hit his head there right for the taking" is just not something thats going to appeal to anyone . Hell even the Caps GM didn't agree with that assesment when he testified.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Fact is, Sundqvist was seriously hurt and the NHLPA's official position is he deserved it. **** that.

Fact is you’re being willfully ignorant as to how the PA works.


When a criminal defense attorney defends someone accused of a crime do you read that as that lawyer personally endorsing criminal activity?

 

[bluesfan94]

I like this, but the PA would never agree to it. They don't care about player safety, as shown by them blaming Sundqvist.

This take is entirely inaccurate. Them blaming Sundqvist is what they believe to be the argument that would be most successful in having Wilson's suspension reduced. It is not indicative of the NHLPA's overall belief.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't think that's fair at all. A lot of unions care about their members. But when one member asks a union to appeal on his behalf, the union must do whatever they think will be most successful in his defense

I understand that it is very easy for me to say this, but them saying Sundqvist was essentially asking to be concussed, is disgusting.

Victim blaming is never ok.

EDIT: the PA argued that there shouldn't even be a suspension. They could have argued that the 20 games was abusive for various reasons but instead they went with "this guy was asking to get sent to another universe by our member!".

 

[Midnight Judges]

Fact is you’re being willfully ignorant as to how the PA works.


When a criminal defense attorney defends someone accused of a crime do you read that as that lawyer personally endorsing criminal activity?

The obvious answer is - that would be stupid.

And yet it's not an uncommon belief.

 

[mouser]

The union is legally bound to advocate for its players in the best way possible. In this case, the player who requested union support was Tom Wilson. Therefore, the union is bound to do its best to advocate for what's in Tom Wilson's best interest in this instant. That's arguing that he didn't violate a rule.

This is why unions are important. Because they protect and advocate on behalf of everyone.

That's not completely true. The union is legally obligated to represent its collective membership as best as possible. It's not obligated to advocate every individual case if it has a good faith reason not to do so. Some simple examples being it could decline to advocate an individual case if it thought it was in the best interests of the collective membership not to do so. Or could even decline to advocate a case simply on a pragmatic analysis that the union believes there's little chance to win.

The thing is it's often difficult for unions to develop good faith standards for those decisions. So often they'll default to grieving everything possible.

I don't think that's fair at all. A lot of unions care about their members. But when one member asks a union to appeal on his behalf, the union must do whatever they think will be most successful in his defense

Again, the union is not required to do this. They are required to make a good faith decision whether or not to pursue a grievance on the member's behalf.

 

[bluesfan94]

That's not completely true. The union is legally obligated to represent its collective membership as best as possible. It's not obligated to advocate every individual case if it has a good faith reason not to do so. Some simple examples being it could decline to advocate an individual case if it thought it was in the best interests of the collective membership not to do so. Or could even decline to advocate a case simply on a pragmatic analysis that the union believes there's little chance to win.

The thing is it's often difficult for unions to develop good faith standards for those decisions. So often they'll default to grieving everything possible.

Yes, but once they agree to appeal the suspension, they must advocate to the best of their ability.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Yes, but once they agree to appeal the suspension, they must advocate to the best of their ability.

Based on the hit, do you think it was wise for the union to say that Sundqvist was "asking for it" and that Wilson should have never been suspended rather than plead that 20 games was too severe?

This is why I find what the PA did so reprehensible.

 

[me2]

It was actually Wilson wondering about his money.

Bettman has a good left. He really wants that signing bonus money.

 

[bluesfan94]

Based on the hit, do you think it was wise for the union to say that Sundqvist was "asking for it" and that Wilson should have never been suspended rather than plead that 20 games was too severe?

This is why I find what the PA did so reprehensible.

They never said he was asking for it.

[MOD]

 

[HTFN]

I understand that it is very easy for me to say this, but them saying Sundqvist was essentially asking to be concussed, is disgusting.

Victim blaming is never ok.

EDIT: the PA argued that there shouldn't even be a suspension. They could have argued that the 20 games was abusive for various reasons but instead they went with "this guy was asking to get sent to another universe by our member!".

So if you elect to walk across a highway in the dark and you're struck by a car, nobody should blame you for your poor decision making?

Victim blaming is not a one-size-fits-all term, and in some situations it's plenty okay. We just tend to call those situations "common sense" or "Darwinism" and move on with life.

Victim blaming was okay about a week after that when Lars Eller got roped into a fight because he was "asking for it, taunting the bench like that" because not all cases are equal.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

They never said he was asking for it.

Fair, I'm getting a bit heated.

They said he put himself in a vulnerable position. Not quite as dire but still victim blaming in my book.

I get why the PA did it, but still could have told Wilson "you almost ripped the guy's head off, we'll try to get the number of games reduced but we won't be arguing that you did nothing wrong, Mr. Sundqvist is also represented by the PA after all". Instead they threw Sundqvist under the bus, that's not ok.

 

[serp]

They never said he was asking for it.


To be clear, I'm not defending Wilson. I'm a Blues fan and think he's a POS for what he did. I'm defending the NHLPA

They did at the very least sort of . Thats how i see the comments about how Sundqvist put his head on a silver platter for Wilson to take it . Not sure how there's any two opinions on this. That was part of the NHLPA's argument to defend Wilson. Sundqvist carelessly left his head wide open and Tom Wilson had no choice but to hit it. Its in the press release right there for you to read.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

So if you elect to walk across a highway in the dark and you're struck by a car, nobody should blame you for your poor decision making?

Victim blaming is not a one-size-fits-all term, and in some situations it's plenty okay. We just tend to call those situations "common sense" or "Darwinism" and move on with life.

When someone pulls out this kind of false equivalence to make their case, you just know they are trying to make a point about how it isn't fair.

Victim blaming was okay about a week after that when Lars Eller got roped into a fight because he was "asking for it, taunting the bench like that" because not all cases are equal.

I rest my case

 

[serp]

Yes, but once they agree to appeal the suspension, they must advocate to the best of their ability.

Well than they did a very poor job at that. Reading the arguments the NHLPA brought up to defend Wilson listed in Bettman release just makes me shake my head

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So taking the NHLPA’s position on this, player discipline should be abolished, that makes the most sense because it’s pro-union.

What else is the league supposed to do when an illegal hit occurs? And if players think the league doesn’t do enough to curtail headshots, they can blame their own union and sue them instead of crying to the media that the owners don’t care about player safety.

 

[HanSolo]

Lol NHLPA insistent that this wasn't the main point of contact. Yeah, sure. A guy's face just breaks out in blood and contusions with a brushing of the forearm. Sunqvist has the most fragile face on the planet.\

EDIT: Hahahaha contention number 4 is rich: "Mr. Parros' treatment of Mr. Wilson as a "three-time repeat" offender was improper because each of Mr. Wilson's September 22, 2017 and May 1, 2018 suspensions were "highly debated" among DPS personnel before final decisions were reached by Mr. Parros."

This NHLPA lawyer is a piece of work. If there was debate in rendering a suspension, then it's not really a suspension. Jesus christ. I know the NHLPA is trying to be a good advocate for Wilson, but part of being a good advocate is making good arguments. This isn't one. This is grasping for shredded straws.

 

[gorangers0525]

I would stop paying my dues after the “silver platter” comment...I understand that defense lawyers have a tough job, but hot takes like that have no place at a formal hearing.

 

[HanSolo]

I would stop paying my dues after the “silver platter” comment...I understand that defense lawyers have a tough job, but hot takes like that have no place at a formal hearing.

Hey players under our PA, just so you know, your heads are an all you can eat buffet for any player who can get access to them.

 

[MXD]

Seriously, I can't understand why the NHLPA didn't do the absolute strict minimum just to make sure to not get tagged with a duty of representation complaint.

 

[PensPlz]

The appeal consisted of 7 hours of Wilson trying to convince Bettman that this is actually Sundqvist:

It almost worked, too. Almost.

 

[Master P]

Suspension upheld:

 

[Syrinx]

That’s literally been debunked ten times over. He was laughing at Jay Beagle who was commenting on all of the boos.


Again sensationalism doesn’t help the case, a case that actually can easily be made with just facts.

The facts we know are he destroyed ZAR and was laughing on the bench. You can believe whatever story they made up to save face if you want to. Don't call it facts. You're defending a scumbag.

 

[Incognito]

That’s literally been debunked ten times over. He was laughing at Jay Beagle who was commenting on all of the boos.


Again sensationalism doesn’t help the case, a case that actually can easily be made with just facts.

Even if that's true, it still speaks to the kind of person that Wilson is, and his apparent inability to experience empathy. Even if he wasn't laughing at ZAR directly, he was still smiling, laughing and in a pretty jovial mood for somebody who just caused serious bodily harm to another person. I know that if I were the one who had just smashed someone so badly that they needed to go to the hospital for surgery, I'd be feeling sick and not at all in the mood for smiling and laughing. I'd imagine most normal, well adjusted people would feel the same way. Tom Wilson is not a normal, well adjusted person. Hence the laughing.