Signing(s): Tom Brady signs with the Buccaneers (2 years, $50 million)

[Zilo44]

QB contracts only get more expensive. Not sure what makes his deal a cap killer.

Yeah, that contract is cap friendly the first 5 years

 

[c9777666]

Bucs got a bargain !

and all it took was inherited a stacked roster of Jameis leftovers

 

[GKJ]

Yeah, that contract is cap friendly the first 5 years

They’ll also restructure it when they need to, as everyone does.

 

[darko]

and all it took was inherited a stacked roster of Jameis leftovers

Cry some more

 

[John Price]

"Mom where are my football pants"

 

[Voight]

and all it took was inherited a stacked roster of Jameis leftovers

Yea, Gronk/AB/Fournette didn't do anything to help Tampa win.

 

[These Are The Days]

and all it took was inherited a stacked roster of Jameis leftovers

And if Jameis was even remotely competent at his job, he would've been re-signed and Tom Brady would have had to go somewhere else. I have never in my life EVER seen anyone get so many chances as Jameis was given. Bruce Arians and Jason Licht eliminated all semblance of competition to the point of Winston missing like 4 snaps all of 2 years ago. This stacked roster you are referring to was his to win with and he blew it over and over again.

The best thing we could ever get was 7-9 seasons, 25 turnovers and the only silver lining being "But look at how much he's matured!" and this year would have been no different

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

And if Jameis was even remotely competent at his job, he would've been re-signed and Tom Brady would have had to go somewhere else. I have never in my life EVER seen anyone get so many chances as Jameis was given. Bruce Arians and Jason Licht eliminated all semblance of competition to the point of Winston missing like 4 snaps all of 2 years ago. This stacked roster you are referring to was his to win with and he blew it over and over again.

The best thing we could ever get was 7-9 seasons, 25 turnovers and the only silver lining being "But look at how much he's matured!" and this year would have been no different

Jameis wasn't the one holding those teams back, it was the epically bad defenses...if we want to be fair. Not to say Jameis didnt have his warts, he did, but he wasn't as bad as he gets made out to be.

Fun fact:

Tampa's points against rankings in Winston's years: 29th, 31st, 22nd, 15th, 26th
Tampa's points against ranking in this season: 8th

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

Jameis wasn't the one holding those teams back, it was the epically bad defenses...if we want to be fair. Not to say Jameis didnt have his warts, he did, but he wasn't as bad as he gets made out to be.

Fun fact:

Tampa's points against rankings in Winston's years: 29th, 31st, 22nd, 15th, 26th
Tampa's points against ranking in this season: 8th

Turnover differential:

2015: -5, tied for 22nd (15 INT)
2016: +2, tied for 15th (18 INT)
2017: -1, tied for 16th (11 INT)
2018: -18, 31st (14 INT)
2019: -13, 28th (30 INT)

2020: +6, 5th

I'll give you those first couple of seasons in the defensive incompetence area. I watched those teams and those were putrid defenses. There's a reason why Lovie Smith was fired after 2015 and why Mike Smith was fired as DC halfway through 2018. Bad coaching, bad drafting, bad signings everywhere you look. But those points against aren't taking into account the pick-6's Jameis threw (which aren't the fault of the defense) nor are they taking into account the average field position his volume of interceptions was affording opposing teams. Todd Bowles' defense was given a lot more credit upon a deeper look at the numbers than finishing 26th in points allowed would suggest.

If the numbers you're using are, in fact, at least filtering out touchdowns allowed by the offense and special teams, then please let me know. Doesn't really change my point about average starting field position being impacted but it would affect other parts of my argument.

 

[These Are The Days]

Jameis wasn't the one holding those teams back, it was the epically bad defenses...if we want to be fair. Not to say Jameis didnt have his warts, he did, but he wasn't as bad as he gets made out to be.

Fun fact:

Tampa's points against rankings in Winston's years: 29th, 31st, 22nd, 15th, 26th
Tampa's points against ranking in this season: 8th

And every time Winston made some stupid ass mistake, it was another time the defense had to go back out there. When it happens 30 times a year and almost always in a bad position on the field, your defense is going to suffer statistically. Amazing how the Bucs defense miraculously improved because Brady wasn't throwing picks that ended up back on our own 23 yard line that our tired defenses didn't have to suddenly bail us out of

The dude had about 100 turnovers between INT's and fumbles in his 5 year career in Tampa, if you stop even half of them for TD's (50) you still just gave up 10 extra TD's over the course of a 16 game season where even 1 score loses a game.

 

[DougieSmash]

He sucks

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

And every time Winston made some stupid ass mistake, it was another time the defense had to go back out there. When it happens 30 times a year and almost always in a bad position on the field, your defense is going to suffer statistically. Amazing how the Bucs defense miraculously improved because Brady wasn't throwing picks that ended up back on our own 23 yard line that our tired defenses didn't have to suddenly bail us out of

The dude had about 100 turnovers between INT's and fumbles in his 5 year career in Tampa, if you stop even half of them for TD's (50) you still just gave up 10 extra TD's over the course of a 16 game season where even 1 score loses a game.

Furthermore, the most damning thing about Jameis is that he wasn't getting any better at cutting down on the mistakes. He actually began committing more of them. If you want to say 2019 was a bit of a result of playing in a vertical-heavy passing offense with Arians, that can be given some credence. But one of Winston's biggest blind spots has always been reading underneath coverage, whether it be linebackers or safeties dropping in. Guess what? You do underneath throws in more horizontal-based passing offenses as well. And, despite all of that, part of me suspects that you could've lived with Jameis even if he was averaging 1 INT per game - he played in a slightly different era but Kurt Warner averaged 1 INT/game through his career and is in the Hall of Fame, after all - but, after 2017's relatively modest 11-in-13 interception total, he only got worse. He averaged 25 INT's in 2018 projected out over a 16-game season, which also brings me back to Arians and his system...if you wanted to argue "he would've gotten better with more experience in his system", Winston had his worst INT season in 2018, which was his fourth season in Dirk Koetter's offense. Why should I believe in progress if he was showing how easily that could be undone?

I wanted to believe in Jameis so g-ddamned much, even if he was a 'Nole in college. But by the time he threw his last pass as a Buc, I was laughing my ass off. Capping a 30/30 season with a pick-6 in OT to cement four losing seasons in five years with him at QB. It was time to move on whether or not the arguable best QB in NFL history was looking for a retirement home.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Fair or foul: Brady would have been a HOF QB if he was drafted elsewhere, but still would not have had the same level of success with Bill.

 

[darko]

Fair or foul: Brady would have been a HOF QB if he was drafted elsewhere, but still would not have had the same level of success with Bill.

More than fair.

It's an example of a great QB and mastermind coach forming a formidable duo.

 

[darko]

He sucks

Good game manager.

 

[Reality Check]

More than fair.

It's an example of a great QB and mastermind coach forming a formidable duo.

Eh...Put Brady on the Lions and he would be viewed as Matt Stafford. Talented but questionable. Brady was solid-to-good in college and never won a B10 title either. Yet, even then, he still had the trait of being a winner.

As someone who was in high school when Brady was at Michigan, where Drew Henson was grabbing more headlines than Brady, this still amazes me to see him as the NFL GOAT.

 

[darko]

Eh...Put Brady on the Lions and he would be viewed as Matt Stafford. Talented but questionable. Brady was solid-to-good in college and never won a B10 title either. Yet, even then, he still had the trait of being a winner.

As someone who was in high school when Brady was at Michigan, where Drew Henson was grabbing more headlines than Brady, this still amazes me to see him as the NFL GOAT.

Lions are a gong show. Put him on any respectable franchise and wins a SB at least.

 

[Reality Check]

Lions are a gong show. Put him on any respectable franchise and wins a SB at least.

I would concede reaching a Super Bowl. Just not winning a Super Bowl.

For god sakes, Jake Delhomme reached the Super Bowl.

 

[darko]

I would concede reaching a Super Bowl. Just not winning a Super Bowl.

For god sakes, Jake Delhomme reached the Super Bowl.

I think people forget how good peak Brady was. Yes he had Welker, Moss and Edelman but at times he had Troy Brown, Deion Branch and Reche f***ing Caldwell to throw the ball too.

Put him on Packers and wins more than 1 SB. Put him on number of franchises and he wins multiple SBs.

 

[darko]

Lions are up there with Browns and Bengals as the worst run franchises.

 

[GKJ]

Eh...Put Brady on the Lions and he would be viewed as Matt Stafford. Talented but questionable. Brady was solid-to-good in college and never won a B10 title either. Yet, even then, he still had the trait of being a winner.

As someone who was in high school when Brady was at Michigan, where Drew Henson was grabbing more headlines than Brady, this still amazes me to see him as the NFL GOAT.

The Brady thing shocked me from the very beginning for similar reason. Henson didn’t get as much time as people remember though. But imagine having the greatest player in the sport and he wasn’t even definitively “the guy” his senior year in college. Everyone was waiting for the Brady Dream to end at any moment, as at that time in the NFL, QB’s were coming from out of the clouds and disappearing just as fast. But 20 years later he’s still doing it

 

[Voight]

I think people forget how good peak Brady was. Yes he had Welker, Moss and Edelman but at times he had Troy Brown, Deion Branch and Reche f***ing Caldwell to throw the ball too.

Put him on Packers and wins more than 1 SB. Put him on number of franchises and he wins multiple SBs.

Look at his 2010 MVP season. Not one receiver reached 1,000 yards; only Gronk reached 10 TD's. (Welker was 2nd with 7)

His top 5 receivers that year were Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, Branch and Brandon Tate; his top back was BenJarvus.

& a lot of people forget he made guys like Welker and Edelman into the players they were.; one could argue he also rejuvenated Moss' career after some down years.

 

[Dingo]

Due Diligence calmly pistolwhipping people for 9 months in this thread...

 

[DueDiligence]

Fun fact:

Tampa's points against rankings in Winston's years: 29th, 31st, 22nd, 15th, 26th
Tampa's points against ranking in this season: 8th

So once again for the uninformed. Don't just look at the points.
Jameis had 30 picks and 12 fumbles last year combined with 47 sacks. He threw 7 pick sixes. In 2019 the Bucs defense was given the worst average starting field position to defend in the NFL. Brady came in greatly reduced all those negative stats and voila the Bucs defense is top 10 all year. with the same personnel.

 

[DueDiligence]

Due Diligence calmly pistolwhipping people for 9 months in this thread...

As I should. What bugs me is when people make claims or statements of so called "facts" without substantiating anything.