Tomáš Plekanec: Mr. Everything

[417]

Not currently.

Team structure and experience defines icetime when comes the playoff, it doesn't mean that he was tactically the best men for the role at that point in the season (He was pre-cast into the role before the season started). In fact, most people with eyes would have probably promoted Eller to take Pleks role 100% during the playoffs. Meaning Pleks would have gotten 16-18 min with lesser linesmate and no PP time. Desharnais was also pre-cast before the season, but he was becoming such an embarrassment there was no way he could stay in his "pre-cast" spot. Desharnais is talking about "hoping" to still be with the team next year in his summer interviews, he knows something is coming.

Now that the season is over, you collect the data and set a new structure. It is not "simply ridiculous" it is what every team in the league does. What would be simply ridiculous is to claim that the past will define the future. This is pathetic and horrendous logic. Pleks won't be the best guy to support Max/Subban/Price over the next 5 years, I can say that with a high degree of confidence. I'm willing to walk away from 1-2 more year of such performance to get 3-4 years of better performance from another player (Eller and Galchenyuk center 1 and 2). And a good return from Pleks could give us a player we can use right now and over the next 5 years.

Well said...agreed completely

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

But pretty good for a miscast premier 2nd line centre. In fact, among all active forwards with 80+ playoff games under their belt, Plekanec has the 36th highest PPG - 25th among those who play, or have played, centre.

But you'd rather replace talent from the top instead of finding better talent to push our top talent down the depth chart a rung to where they "should" be. That's just stupid, and results in years of recycling other "shoulda beens" until that elusive franchise centre magically appears, limiting the relative importance of everyone below them anyway.

He's currently the strongest link down the middle of our depth chart, so moving him in an attempt to improve overall (during the window of Price/Max/Subban's primes, certainly) is simply ridiculous. Not too worried about top defenses being able to limit his offensive production, since he's currently the best we have at turning around and doing the same thing to opposing top forwards and their production.

I should say that I'm actually a Plekanec supporter. I know he's our best centre, I use that fact to rag on Bustchenyuk whenever people say that he doesn't have 'good' linemates.

And I agree that replacing talent should come top-down, but Plekanec is at a very interesting crossroads where his next contract should/would be for 2+ years and therefore will end with him potentially beneath other options in the depth chart.

I'm only willing to trade Pleks if DD isn't moved. I want DD gone more than anything. But if DD is here like the cancerous lump of **** he is, than Pleks should be moved (for a top6W or C) because our younger players are suffocating and he's not a particularly irreplaceable talent.

It means if you're looking to find someone who is a) available, b) more experienced, and c) more productive/effective in the playoffs, you're going to have a hard time finding someone better than Plekanec to supplement your depth chart. That should have been pretty obvious.

edit: The list, in case you're curious.

They don't need to be more experienced whatsoever. We have an experienced team, we don't need a leader, we need talent.

Pleks lacks talent, vision and instinct. He's a hard-working player but that's it, and as he's gonna age he's going to lose a lot of offensive value..

 

[Sorinth]

Not currently.

Team structure and experience defines icetime when comes the playoff, it doesn't mean that he was tactically the best men for the role at that point in the season (He was pre-cast into the role before the season started). In fact, most people with eyes would have probably promoted Eller to take Pleks role 100% during the playoffs. Meaning Pleks would have gotten 16-18 min with lesser linesmate and no PP time. Desharnais was also pre-cast before the season, but he was becoming such an embarrassment there was no way he could stay in his "pre-cast" spot. Desharnais is talking about "hoping" to still be with the team next year in his summer interviews, he knows something is coming.

Now that the season is over, you collect the data and set a new structure. It is not "simply ridiculous" it is what every team in the league does. What would be simply ridiculous is to claim that the past will define the future. This is pathetic and horrendous logic. Pleks won't be the best guy to support Max/Subban/Price over the next 5 years, I can say that with a high degree of confidence. I'm willing to walk away from 1-2 more year of such performance to get 3-4 years of better performance from another player (Eller and Galchenyuk center 1 and 2). And a good return from Pleks could give us a player we can use right now and over the next 5 years.

And in 3-4 years Markov won't be on the team, so we'll be missing a top pairing defenceman which puts us furthur away from contending. Your strategy might fix the hole up front, but it opens one up on defence.

The team right now is the closest we've been to a contender in a long time, and there is little guarantee that even if Galchenyuk & Eller become good #1 & #2 guys that we will be closer to being a contender in 3+ years.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

I'm only willing to trade Pleks if DD isn't moved. I want DD gone more than anything. But if DD is here like the cancerous lump of **** he is, than Pleks should be moved (for a top6W or C) because our younger players are suffocating and he's not a particularly irreplaceable talent.

A high end 2 way center who is durable and just had 60 points isn't a particularly irreplaceable talent?

Mon dieu, that's one of the dumbest comments I've seen in a while.

I'm really confused waht Desharnais has to do with anything as well, one is used as an offensive center who gets shielded from tough match ups...the other is a secondar offensive center who gets thrust into tough match ups.

What does one have to do with the other?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

A high end 2 way center who is durable and just had 60 points isn't a particularly irreplaceable talent?

Mon dieu, that's one of the dumbest comments I've seen in a while.

I'm really confused waht Desharnais has to do with anything as well, one is used as an offensive center who gets shielded from tough match ups...the other is a secondar offensive center who gets thrust into tough match ups.

What does one have to do with the other?

This meme that Plek's is a high-end two way centre should go to bed. He's not a consistent two-way centre, he had a fine year this year and a **** one last year with 43 pts. He's had many lame years in fact, 50-something points when he's not lumped next to Kovalev or Cammalleri isn't a high-end two way centre. High-end two way centres are Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron, Kesler. Plekanec is at or below Mikko Koivu's level, nothing high-end about him.

And if you can't understand why Busty Chucky should replace DD or Eller should replace Pleks, I don't know what to tell you. Other than you should read your hilarious posts from last night and feel shame

 

[Cole Caulifield]

But pretty good for a miscast premier 2nd line centre. In fact, among all active forwards with 80+ playoff games under their belt, Plekanec has the 36th highest PPG - 25th among those who play, or have played, centre.

But you'd rather replace talent from the top instead of finding better talent to push our top talent down the depth chart a rung to where they "should" be. That's just stupid, and results in years of recycling other "shoulda beens" until that elusive franchise centre magically appears, limiting the relative importance of everyone below them anyway.

He's currently the strongest link down the middle of our depth chart, so moving him in an attempt to improve overall (during the window of Price/Max/Subban's primes, certainly) is simply ridiculous. Not too worried about top defenses being able to limit his offensive production, since he's currently the best we have at turning around and doing the same thing to opposing top forwards and their production.

On the surface this is a valid point. However, Plekanec's age and contract situation in the context of a salary cap team make it so that choices have to be made. Do we want to spend 5M on a 35 year old Plekanec for multiple years ? How is Plekanec going to perform down the line in the playoffs, will it be like in 2015 where he crapped the bed offensively and defensively ? I think this warrants serious thought. And if the result of that thinking is a negative answer, then something has to be done about it right now because we sure as hell aren't trading away a top 6 center at the deadline, and if we aren't trading him at the deadline, and if we aren't signing him to a 5M+ deal for multiple years then are we just letting him go for no return like Souray, Koivu, etc?

And while he currently is the player you see him as, for how long will he remain that player ? You want better players to push him down the lineup but we might not even need better players to push him down the lineup, his own decline might push him down the lineup. That wouldn't be good, especially if we're on the hook for multiple years at 5M+. Think Gionta last year, that was quite the boat anchor.

It means if you're looking to find someone who is a) available, b) more experienced, and c) more productive/effective in the playoffs, you're going to have a hard time finding someone better than Plekanec to supplement your depth chart. That should have been pretty obvious.

edit: The list, in case you're curious.

The problem with your search parameter is that you used 80+ games.

On that list i can see Scott Gomez at 27th. I would not acquire him as a replacement to Plekanec expecting better results.

I think your list is a bit cherry picked based on the concept of 80 games+. If we broaden our search a little at 40+ games, Plekanec falls to #64 around players like Filppula and Hudler. If we broaden it further to 25 games then Plekanec falls to 79th. I mean the goal isn't to find players who have achieved certain point per game thresholds in the past, it's to find a player who will do that in the future.

 

[Monctonscout]

On the surface this is a valid point. However, Plekanec's age and contract situation in the context of a salary cap team make it so that choices have to be made. Do we want to spend 5M on a 35 year old Plekanec for multiple years ? How is Plekanec going to perform down the line in the playoffs, will it be like in 2015 where he crapped the bed offensively and defensively ? I think this warrants serious thought. And if the result of that thinking is a negative answer, then something has to be done about it right now because we sure as hell aren't trading away a top 6 center at the deadline, and if we aren't trading him at the deadline, and if we aren't signing him to a 5M+ deal for multiple years then are we just letting him go for no return like Souray, Koivu, etc?

And while he currently is the player you see him as, for how long will he remain that player ? You want better players to push him down the lineup but we might not even need better players to push him down the lineup, his own decline might push him down the lineup. That wouldn't be good, especially if we're on the hook for multiple years at 5M+. Think Gionta last year, that was quite the boat anchor.

I think there are two key factors that we don't know which will influence the process.

1-what top centers are potentially available? ...and at what cost?
2-what would it cost to keep TP for 2-3-4 more years. Obviously if his camp is looking for 6+ mil in his mid 30's it will be tough. At 15 mil for 3 more years, it's an easy signing. 4 years at 18-19 mil could also work, helps reduce the risk and makes him easy to trade down the road.

Plekanec is younger than Gionta was last year and looks to have more mileage left. Gionta wasn't coming off a 60 point season.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I think there are two key factors that we don't know which will influence the process.

1-what top centers are potentially available? ...and at what cost?
2-what would it cost to keep TP for 2-3-4 more years. Obviously if his camp is looking for 6+ mil in his mid 30's it will be tough. At 15 mil for 3 more years, it's an easy signing. 4 years at 18-19 mil could also work, helps reduce the risk and makes him easy to trade down the road.

Plekanec is younger than Gionta was last year and looks to have more mileage left. Gionta wasn't coming off a 60 point season.

I think you have to look at Plekanec's entire skill set and evaluate if what makes him tick as a player will remain intact past 35 and for how long. I have my doubts but it is difficult to tell. I'd be wary of any deal longer than 2 years, and I would ideally want him at 4M, not 5M. That's probably not realistic to expect him to want to sign such a deal, that's why I'd trade him. But there's so much speculation in there that I could very well be completely off the mark.

But obviously just trading Plekanec away for a prospect without having a real plan to replace him is not an adequate solution. We would need an adequate replacement. This replacement would have a cap hit that is likely equivalent or superior to Plekanec. Of course, having both Plekanec and his would be replacement would be even better.. but I don't see how we can fit both Plekanec and his would be replacement under the cap seeing how we already need to clear space if we want to make any improvements.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Great posts Des Louises.

80+ games experience is whack, some of the players around Pleks aren't even useful anymore - like Simon Gagne.

 

[Sorinth]

This meme that Plek's is a high-end two way centre should go to bed. He's not a consistent two-way centre, he had a fine year this year and a **** one last year with 43 pts. He's had many lame years in fact, 50-something points when he's not lumped next to Kovalev or Cammalleri isn't a high-end two way centre. High-end two way centres are Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron, Kesler. Plekanec is at or below Mikko Koivu's level, nothing high-end about him.

And if you can't understand why Busty Chucky should replace DD or Eller should replace Pleks, I don't know what to tell you. Other than you should read your hilarious posts from last night and feel shame

Kesler hasn't hit 50 points since 2010-2011.

In fact the year Plekanec had his crappy 43 point season, Kesler had 43 points as well.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Kesler hasn't hit 50 points since 2010-2011.

In fact the year Plekanec had his crappy 43 point season, Kesler had 43 points as well.

30 gms out of 30 would take Kesler over Pleks. But you're right I shouldn't have mentioned him, regardless, my point remains.

 

[Sorinth]

30 gms out of 30 would take Kesler over Pleks. But you're right I shouldn't have mentioned him, regardless, my point remains.

He's bigger and Canadian, so probably. But I'm not so sure it would be the right decision.

But even a guy like Bergeron who is without question the better player, he's got plenty of 50 point seasons to his name as well. In fact over the past 6 years Bergeron's ppg is 0.74, Plekanec's is 0.70. There hasn't been that big of a difference between them offensively, and arguably Bergeron benefited from better linemates during that time.

So in the end, yes Plekanec isn't at the same levels of the truly elite 2-way guys, but he's still up there.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

He's bigger and Canadian, so probably. But I'm not so sure it would be the right decision.

But even a guy like Bergeron who is without question the better player, he's got plenty of 50 point seasons to his name as well. In fact over the past 6 years Bergeron's ppg is 0.74, Plekanec's is 0.70. There hasn't been that big of a difference between them offensively, and arguably Bergeron benefited from better linemates during that time.

So in the end, yes Plekanec isn't at the same levels of the truly elite 2-way guys, but he's still up there.

Kesler is from Michigan, he's 100% American.

Pleks isn't up there. He doesn't have the gear (or two gears) that Bergeron and Kesler and definitely Datsyuk, Kopitar and Toews have.

He's not irreplaceable and he's aging. If we extend him, we're going to regret it. If we keep him and lose him as a UFA, we'll end up with nothing. Best bet is to trade him.

 

[Sorinth]

Kesler is from Michigan, he's 100% American.

Pleks isn't up there. He doesn't have the gear (or two gears) that Bergeron and Kesler and definitely Datsyuk, Kopitar and Toews have.

He's not irreplaceable and he's aging. If we extend him, we're going to regret it. If we keep him and lose him as a UFA, we'll end up with nothing. Best bet is to trade him.

My mistake about Kesler, though the point still stands that GMs value a big N.A guy over a smaller European.

No question he's behind the elite guys, and doesn't have that extra gear to dominate like they do, but there are only 4-5 of those guys. So even being on the next tier puts him in that 6-10 range,which is still pretty damn good.

What we'll regret is playing DD at the expense of Galchenyuk, but that's a different story.

Trading Plekanec should be an option depending on the return. But trading him because he's a soon to be UFA and just trying to get the best we can would be a mistake. If all we can get from Plekanec is a late 1st and a prospect or two it's not going to be worth trading him, we'd be better off re-signing him. If we can package him for a stud, then absolutely trade him.

 

[Adriatic]

A high end 2 way center who is durable and just had 60 points isn't a particularly irreplaceable talent?

Now this is why I come here lol. I love reading these kinds of delusions! If Plekanek is a high end 2 way player what the hell does that make Toews, Kopitar, Kesler, Bergeron, Datsuyk.....I could go on and name another dozen better 2 way centers who aren't afraid of their own shadow come playoffs.

 

[HabsChik*]

Now this is why I come here lol. I love reading these kinds of delusions! If Plekanek is a high end 2 way player what the hell does that make Toews, Kopitar, Kesler, Bergeron, Datsuyk.....I could go on and name another dozen better 2 way centers who aren't afraid of their own shadow come playoffs.

I have been trying to get through, but it's not working. Good luck. Apparently he is the second comming lmao

 

[Cole Caulifield]

My mistake about Kesler, though the point still stands that GMs value a big N.A guy over a smaller European.

No question he's behind the elite guys, and doesn't have that extra gear to dominate like they do, but there are only 4-5 of those guys. So even being on the next tier puts him in that 6-10 range,which is still pretty damn good.

What we'll regret is playing DD at the expense of Galchenyuk, but that's a different story.

Trading Plekanec should be an option depending on the return. But trading him because he's a soon to be UFA and just trying to get the best we can would be a mistake. If all we can get from Plekanec is a late 1st and a prospect or two it's not going to be worth trading him, we'd be better off re-signing him. If we can package him for a stud, then absolutely trade him.

He's bigger and Canadian, so probably. But I'm not so sure it would be the right decision.

It almost seems like you think you're smarter than NHL GMs and that most of them are dumb idiots who are influenced by ridiculous Don Cherry type bias about provenance ?

GMs value size for a reason. Size is indeed an important attribute. It can be overcome by skill.. but overcome is the key word. You have to overcome a size disadvantage. If two players are equal in every way but size, the bigger player is always better.

Kesler once scored 40 goals and actually won a Selke. At his best he was one of the best players in the league. You really can't say the same about Plekanec. He's that much better... still. In the playoffs this year he posted 7g13pts in 16 games. Quite the contrast with Plekanec. He's younger, better in every way... beyond the pure numbers, if you have watched both players in this year's playoffs... you know, you just know that Kesler is a notch above, a big one. And you're not sure if taking Kesler over Plekanec would be the better decision ? Put the stats sheet aside, and just watch some games. Just do. There's a big difference between the two that goes beyond simple regular season production.

 

[DAChampion]

The team really needs to promote Eller and Galchenyuk.

First choicr is to dump DD. Since he is "fantastic" maybe we could trade him for a first rounder.

Second choice is to trade Plekanec.

That said, Plekanec is 33 at the start of the season. We are losing Plekanec regardless of whether or nkt he stays on the roster, as he will now be declining quickly. The same was true of Roman Hamrlik after the 2011 season -- we were going to lose him either way and yes it hurt.

 

[Sorinth]

It almost seems like you think you're smarter than NHL GMs and that most of them are dumb idiots who are influenced by ridiculous Don Cherry type bias about provenance ?

GMs value size for a reason. Size is indeed an important attribute. It can be overcome by skill.. but overcome is the key word. You have to overcome a size disadvantage. If two players are equal in every way but size, the bigger player is always better.

Kesler once scored 40 goals and actually won a Selke. At his best he was one of the best players in the league. You really can't say the same about Plekanec. He's that much better... still. In the playoffs this year he posted 7g13pts in 16 games. Quite the contrast with Plekanec. He's younger, better in every way... beyond the pure numbers, if you have watched both players in this year's playoffs... you know, you just know that Kesler is a notch above, a big one. And you're not sure if taking Kesler over Plekanec would be the better decision ? Put the stats sheet aside, and just watch some games. Just do. There's a big difference between the two that goes beyond simple regular season production.

No two players are ever equal in every way except size. And despite the advantage Kesler's size provides him, Plekanec has outproduced him over their careers. Kesler scored 41 goals, and that's great, but he's never hit 30 before or after. Gionta once scored 48 goals, I guess that makes him amazing too.

I did watch them play and there's a big difference in how the teams are coached. Funny thing is that if all I have to do is just watch them play in the playoffs and Kesler's 13 points is proof he's amazing, why aren't you singing Eller's praises, he also put up 13 points, he's big, young and good defensively?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

No two players are ever equal in every way except size. And despite the advantage Kesler's size provides him, Plekanec has outproduced him over their careers. Kesler scored 41 goals, and that's great, but he's never hit 30 before or after. Gionta once scored 48 goals, I guess that makes him amazing too.

I did watch them play and there's a big difference in how the teams are coached. Funny thing is that if all I have to do is just watch them play in the playoffs and Kesler's 13 points is proof he's amazing, why aren't you singing Eller's praises, he also put up 13 points, he's big, young and good defensively?

Ok Sorinth... Plekanec is better than Kesler, and Eller could be too.

No wonder you think MT sucks... he has all these amazing players and can't win the cup with them...

 

[SOLR]

And in 3-4 years Markov won't be on the team, so we'll be missing a top pairing defenceman which puts us furthur away from contending. Your strategy might fix the hole up front, but it opens one up on defence.

The team right now is the closest we've been to a contender in a long time, and there is little guarantee that even if Galchenyuk & Eller become good #1 & #2 guys that we will be closer to being a contender in 3+ years.

I love the "no guarantee" argument as much as the "let's predict the future with the past argument" (without mentioning that it's actually the same argument). Do you think you are making a point with "no guarantee"? Like any point at all? You know it applies in both directions right? You know that in life there is never any guarantee whatsoever?

Listen to this. It is a guarantee that we will never win the cup in the next 10 years if we lose Pleks and Markov's asset value.

I'm consistent, I would trade Markov this summer and for the same reason, give me a player that can play over the next 5 years. Yes, it might hurt *1* year and maybe not at all. Markov is already barely a top 4, he's following Gonchar's curve pretty closely. Gonchar lost his speed rapidly after 35 in Ottawa/Pittsburgh and became a defensive problem for his teams.

In fact if there is one spot to fix is Markov's so I would be ready to package Pleks AND Markov to get a future first pairing LD. Offense will take care of itself imo with Scherbak etc. coming. Plus we can get some UFA up front(Frolik?), back there it's much harder.

 

[Sorinth]

I love the "no guarantee" argument as much as the "let's predict the future with the past argument" (without mentioning that it's actually the same argument). Do you think you are making a point with "no guarantee"? Like any point at all? You know it applies in both directions right? You know that in life there is never any guarantee whatsoever?

Listen to this. It is a guarantee that we will never win the cup in the next 10 years if we lose Pleks and Markov's asset value.

I'm consistent, I would trade Markov this summer and for the same reason, give me a player that can play over the next 5 years. Yes, it might hurt *1* year and maybe not at all. Markov is already barely a top 4, he's following Gonchar's curve pretty closely. Gonchar lost his speed rapidly after 35 in Ottawa/Pittsburgh and became a defensive problem for his teams.

In fact if there is one spot to fix is Markov's so I would be ready to package Pleks AND Markov to get a future first pairing LD. Offense will take care of itself imo with Scherbak etc. coming. Plus we can get some UFA up front(Frolik?), back there it's much harder.

So the guy who finished 11th in points for defenceman, is barely top-4? That's laughable.

It will hurt for way more than 1 year, it will hurt until we can replace him. And quite frankly there's a very good chance by the time we do replace him that guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Price are no longer in their prime.

I seriously doubt any team would trade a bluechip #1 defenceman for Markov & Plekanec. And yes that day is coming that we lose Markov regardless, which is all the more reason to keep Plekanec & Markov and go for it now by trading some picks/prospects because our offence isn't going to magically fix itself, nor will the likely trade returns of Markov/Plekanec fix the whole in our D.

 

[Sorinth]

Ok Sorinth... Plekanec is better than Kesler, and Eller could be too.

No wonder you think MT sucks... he has all these amazing players and can't win the cup with them...

I think Plekanec and Kesler are fairly equal.

You are the one who claimed 13 points in the playoffs was proof of a player's awesomeness. I'm just pointing out that it's clearly not the be all you made it out to be.

 

[Team_Spirit]

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/h...s-contract-options-heading-toward-free-agency

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/h...looks-back-at-his-habs-career-and-looks-ahead

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/h...ecks-pranksters-and-how-to-pronounce-his-name

A: I’ve been part of those rumours every summer. I’ve been traded so many times, it doesn’t bother me. But this is the first summer I’ve spent most of the summer here in Montreal and now, when people meet me in the street, they say, ‘we hope you stay with us.’ It’s kinda funny, the first time I’ve experienced rumours going around and I’m here for people to tell me about them. I’ve heard from friends who say, ‘we’ve heard you’re going here or there, is it true?’ Honestly, I don’t know. We’ll see. It doesn’t bother me.

Q: It’s a very rare day that you’re not the first guy on the ice for practice. Do you sleep at the rink in Brossard?

A: (Laughs) I’m always early, before some coaches get there. I’m at the rink at 8:15 for an 11 a.m. practice. Most time I eat at home but this year, I’ve started eating more at the rink. I like to eat early, take my time. I can’t eat at 10 and skate at 11. I used to get to the Bell Centre early on game nights but since I started playing a lot of minutes, I realized I’d use too much energy sitting around, waiting. So now I get to the rink two hours before a game.

 

[deandebean]

Yeah, where the Danslescoulisses' trade? Still waiting.