Tomáš Plekanec: Mr. Everything

[HabsDieHard*]

It's crazy to you that someone with 30-odd points in 80-odd playoff games has tired out his fanbase? The playoffs are all that matters, Pleks doesn't raise his game whatsoever and, for a centreman, it's toxic.

He's getting long in the tooth and as dependable and durable as he is, he hasn't held up his end of the bargain in the playoffs. He'd be great for a team that didn't need him but we need to upgrade. Of course I'd rather dump DD than Pleks for an upgrade but BargainBin loves DD, he thinks DD had a fantastic season - we know DD's going nowhere.

Pleks is a good player, but we won't win with him.

It's hilarious to me that people state outright false stuff in 2015 as though they don't expect anyone to call them on it.

46 points in 81 playoff games is an acceptable number for a player who should have never been expected to be relied upon as the top center on a playoff team.

That is, and always has been, on management.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=56385

There are his career stats, since you seem to have been unable to find them previously.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

So you want him to harp on the guy for having a bad playoffs?

He knows he wasn't good enough, what do you want him to say?

Never read much of any Stubbs stuff, just saw an interview with Plekx and liked the way he seems to appreciate what being a hab is really all about.

Of course he knows he's had a bad playoffs, he always has bad playoffs. He's not a two-way player, he's a defensive centreman when it matters. 5m + 3.5m in Eller is too much for two players to occupy the same damn role.

Stubbs is awful, woeful, garbage. He has all the access and none of the insight, he's worse than Dreger as far as I'm concerned. Read that piece again, he offers NOTHING NEW to the reader. NOTHING.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Oh my god this is the Dave Stubbiest article that ever Stubbed.

He describes the restaurant in which they dined and Plek's goatee more than Plek's "asterisk" production of 4 points in the god damn playoffs.

Pleks and Stubbs can both get outta town - both have worn out their welcome.

It really was.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

I thought he asked some interesting questions and I liked what I heard from Plekx.

I'm not sure I understand the connection between Stubbs and that spineless rumour mongering smug dweeb Dreger but I suppose I'll apologize for posting such an offensive article.

46 points in 81 career playoff games.

Defensive centerman?

Lol, tell me more about all the hockey knowledge you've amassed please.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

It's hilarious to me that people state outright false stuff in 2015 as though they don't expect anyone to call them on it.

46 points in 81 playoff games is an acceptable number for a player who should have never been expected to be relied upon as the top center on a playoff team.

That is, and always has been, on management.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=56385

There are his career stats, since you seem to have been unable to find them previously.

I went off Stubbs' numbers in the article you posted. Must've been a typo on his end 15g not 5g.

His career production in the playoffs is an asterisk, and he admitted last month that he could have been better this postseason; he had only one goal and one assist in 12 playoff games this spring, with five goals and 26 assists to show for 81 career playoff games.

Regardless, 0.5ppg is **** for a first line centreman.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Plekanec is not the top center on a cup contending team. That's been apparent for a long while.

Doesn't make your outlandish and foolish statements like "defensive centerman" any less wrong though.

Scoring decreases in the playoffs.

There are fewer 50 point forwards than most people recognize.

46 points in 81 playoff games isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. He has always played very tough minutes in the playoffs. He's always playing taxing minutes.

Certainly it'd be nice if he had more than 15 goals over 81 games...but again, scoring decreases in the playoffs...

Also...after those big tirades against him you used the statistics HE used to base your assessment?

I can't decide what I like more, that you said this about him, or that you admitted as much to save face on your mistake. Perosnally I'd hae gone down with the ship and said I misread it and just looked at his assists. Anything but defend the guy I just took the time on the internet to rip apart to a group of strangers.

Love it.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Plekanec is not the top center on a cup contending team. That's been apparent for a long while.

Doesn't make your outlandish and foolish statements like "defensive centerman" any less wrong though.

Scoring decreases in the playoffs.

There are fewer 50 point forwards than most people recognize.

46 points in 81 playoff games isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. He has always played very tough minutes in the playoffs. He's always playing taxing minutes.

Certainly it'd be nice if he had more than 15 goals over 81 games...but again, scoring decreases in the playoffs...

Also...after those big tirades against him you used the statistics HE used to base your assessment?

I can't decide what I like more, that you said this about him, or that you admitted as much to save face on your mistake. Perosnally I'd hae gone down with the ship and said I misread it and just looked at his assists. Anything but defend the guy I just took the time on the internet to rip apart to a group of strangers.

Love it.

I don't understand what exactly is wrong with you and your approach to posting. I read Stubbs' article, commented on it, used the stats he provided because they were fresh in my mind (I even did mental math!) and you're now trying to say that I did something wrong? Or I'm hiding something? What the hell is the matter?

You're the guy running your mouth elsewhere that we don't need a 40g man in Phil the Thrill but you're going to bat for the 33 year old who scored ONE goal in the only 12 games that mattered and had THREE assists in the same span.

46 in 81 isn't bad for a younger player, but he's 33, he's not going to get better and scoring decreases in the playoffs (in other news: the sun will rise tomorrow) - it's the right time to cut away.

Which leads me to my next anti-Stubbs talking point: for a man who is deliriously into professionalism, it's rather unbecoming to write such a glowing, fluffy review (of nothing, it's a puff piece) of a player on the trade block.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Now you're bringing up my opinions on a different topic to deflect away from your false claim? Bizarre.

Stepping up for Plekanec? I'm stating the facts, which you were not doing.

He should have 3-4 good years left...since this team has a window in Prcies' current contract I'd like to see him here for the duration.

3 years takes him a year after Price, but also expires the same year Pacioretty. I'd happily give him 5.5 for the duration.

He'll use his high end 2 way IQ to be an effective player for years.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Now you're bringing up my opinions on a different topic to deflect away from your false claim? Bizarre.

Stepping up for Plekanec? I'm stating the facts, which you were not doing.

He should have 3-4 good years left...since this team has a window in Prcies' current contract I'd like to see him here for the duration.

3 years takes him a year after Price, but also expires the same year Pacioretty. I'd happily give him 5.5 for the duration.

He'll use his high end 2 way IQ to be an effective player for years.

False claims?!

You posted an article, I read it, I respond to it using stats in that very same article and now you can't get over the fact that the stats were incorrect. Take it up with Stubbs, he'll meet you at a quaint lunchonette on Rachel St over some rustic, local cuisine and a coffee.

Pleks will not be as good when he's 37 ffs. Come on. And his IQ isn't necessarily high, he rarely has chemistry with his wingers and already lacks vision - as he slows down he won't have as much tenacity either.

 

[The Nightman]

False claims?!

You posted an article, I read it, I respond to it using stats in that very same article and now you can't get over the fact that the stats were incorrect. Take it up with Stubbs, he'll meet you at a quaint lunchonette on Rachel St over some rustic, local cuisine and a coffee.

Pleks will not be as good when he's 37 ffs. Come on. And his IQ isn't necessarily high, he rarely has chemistry with his wingers and already lacks vision - as he slows down he won't have as much tenacity either.

Kessel has at best two more good years according to him but Pleks at 33 will have another 3-4. Hmmmmm.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Kessel has at best two more good years according to him but Pleks at 33 will have another 3-4. Hmmmmm.

Must be a full moon tonight. This thread and discussion took a very weird turn - I don't think many on HFHabs outright dislike Pleks. It's just time to move on, he's 33 soon, upcoming UFA, we should transition away.

There is no way that Pleks will be as effective in two years, let alone four. His playoff production won't increase above its marginal rates (take the Cammalleri playoffs out of the equation and its even more damning) and we have a logjam of flawed, middling centres. Two gotta go.

I didn't realize that it would get so contentious here. And in the Mitchell thread someone said I'm singlehandedley ruining the board so... consider this peaceful post part of my penance.

 

[DAChampion]

You are not ruinning the board you are adding humour in addition to insight. Admittedly the quality of humour is a very subjective thing.

I smile when i read "BargainBin". Other people piss their pants when they read "Vegan Skeletor". It's subjective.

 

[DAChampion]

What i am really wondering about Plekanec is what kind of trade value he has around the league. If we can get the kind of package Arizoma got for Vermette: a middling prospect and a late 1st rounder, i would like him traded ASAP.

It is a harder call if his value is that of a second rounder.

 

[Bloumeister]

You are not ruinning the board you are adding humour in addition to insight. Admittedly the quality of humour is a very subjective thing.

I smile when i read "BargainBin". Other people piss their pants when they read "Vegan Skeletor". It's subjective.

 

[HabsChik*]

Kessel has at best two more good years according to him but Pleks at 33 will have another 3-4. Hmmmmm.

Hopefully in Colorado. :fingers crossed

 

[SOLR]

What i am really wondering about Plekanec is what kind of trade value he has around the league. If we can get the kind of package Arizoma got for Vermette: a middling prospect and a late 1st rounder, i would like him traded ASAP.

It is a harder call if his value is that of a second rounder.

He's certainly worth a first rounder at the deadline, but maybe not if traded near the draft. That being said, I still think he could be a high 2nd and maybe that high 2nd is someone like Beauvilier. A 2nd rounder this year will often be worth a late first next year.

 

[417]

I have been back and forth on whether it makes sense to let Plekanec go. At the end of he day, he is a perfect #2C, our version of a Kesler. Get rid of Pleks and who takes his spot? Eller and his 27 pts? Everyone knows that being good down he middle is key, hence the argument to move Chucky there and to get rid of DD. Without Pleks, we are just too weak at Center. Even if we manage to sign Soderberg, I don't think that Soderberg is an upgrade on Pleks. Look at Vancouver after they have traded away Kesler or Ottawa after they traded away Spezza.

So unless we are trading Plekanec for a #1a or #1b Center (ROR, Backes) moving him out now would be a move that could set us back years.

How many points do you expect Eller to get playing as the 3rd center and with virtually no PP time? He's behind Desharnais and Plekanec in the pecking order...the fact he got 15 goals is actually fairly remarkable.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I went off Stubbs' numbers in the article you posted. Must've been a typo on his end 15g not 5g.

His career production in the playoffs is an asterisk, and he admitted last month that he could have been better this postseason; he had only one goal and one assist in 12 playoff games this spring, with five goals and 26 assists to show for 81 career playoff games.

Regardless, 0.5ppg is **** for a first line centreman.

But pretty good for a miscast premier 2nd line centre. In fact, among all active forwards with 80+ playoff games under their belt, Plekanec has the 36th highest PPG - 25th among those who play, or have played, centre.

But you'd rather replace talent from the top instead of finding better talent to push our top talent down the depth chart a rung to where they "should" be. That's just stupid, and results in years of recycling other "shoulda beens" until that elusive franchise centre magically appears, limiting the relative importance of everyone below them anyway.

He's currently the strongest link down the middle of our depth chart, so moving him in an attempt to improve overall (during the window of Price/Max/Subban's primes, certainly) is simply ridiculous. Not too worried about top defenses being able to limit his offensive production, since he's currently the best we have at turning around and doing the same thing to opposing top forwards and their production.

 

[Burke the Legend]

There is no way that Pleks will be as effective in two years, let alone four. His playoff production won't increase above its marginal rates (take the Cammalleri playoffs out of the equation and its even more damning) and we have a logjam of flawed, middling centres. Two gotta go.

This is the bottom line. DD, Eller and Plex have all had their shining moments, but also their hair pulling moments. All are decent centres, and on good contracts right now, but overall the offensive situation needs to be improved. I don't really care who stays or who goes, probably depends on what kind of deals MB can work based on individual interest.

 

[417]

But pretty good for a miscast premier 2nd line centre. In fact, among all active forwards with 80+ playoff games under their belt, Plekanec has the 36th highest PPG - 25th among those who play, or have played, centre.
But you'd rather replace talent from the top instead of finding better talent to push our top talent down the depth chart a rung to where they "should" be. That's just stupid, and results in years of recycling other "shoulda beens" until that elusive franchise centre magically appears, limiting the relative importance of everyone below them anyway.

He's currently the strongest link down the middle of our depth chart, so moving him in an attempt to improve overall (during the window of Price/Max/Subban's primes, certainly) is simply ridiculous. Not too worried about top defenses being able to limit his offensive production, since he's currently the best we have at turning around and doing the same thing to opposing top forwards and their production.

Not to disagree with the overall tone of your post...but what does 36th highest PPG or 25th even mean?

You're really desperate when being 36th out of anything is noteworthy

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Not to disagree with the overall tone of your post...but what does 36th highest PPG or 25th even mean?

You're really desperate when being 36th out of anything is noteworthy

It means if you're looking to find someone who is a) available, b) more experienced, and c) more productive/effective in the playoffs, you're going to have a hard time finding someone better than Plekanec to supplement your depth chart. That should have been pretty obvious.

edit: The list, in case you're curious.

 

[Boris Le Tigre]

It's a year or three too late to move Plekanec. When we loose series it's often the result of match-ups. Over longer series, opposing centres prevail and are top 6 isn't good enough to win that match-up. Production is one part of it but stronger defense can also help win those match-ups. A gritty centre who can just wear down a line might also be effective. A guy like O'Reilly. I hope he's our target (I like the idea of O'Reilly, Eller). Build on strength and determination down the middle.

 

[Boris Le Tigre]

We're just not going to win any track meets... ever. Not with this bunch.

 

[SOLR]

But pretty good for a miscast premier 2nd line centre. In fact, among all active forwards with 80+ playoff games under their belt, Plekanec has the 36th highest PPG - 25th among those who play, or have played, centre.

But you'd rather replace talent from the top instead of finding better talent to push our top talent down the depth chart a rung to where they "should" be. That's just stupid, and results in years of recycling other "shoulda beens" until that elusive franchise centre magically appears, limiting the relative importance of everyone below them anyway.

He's currently the strongest link down the middle of our depth chart, so moving him in an attempt to improve overall (during the window of Price/Max/Subban's primes, certainly) is simply ridiculous. Not too worried about top defenses being able to limit his offensive production, since he's currently the best we have at turning around and doing the same thing to opposing top forwards and their production.

Not currently.

Team structure and experience defines icetime when comes the playoff, it doesn't mean that he was tactically the best men for the role at that point in the season (He was pre-cast into the role before the season started). In fact, most people with eyes would have probably promoted Eller to take Pleks role 100% during the playoffs. Meaning Pleks would have gotten 16-18 min with lesser linesmate and no PP time. Desharnais was also pre-cast before the season, but he was becoming such an embarrassment there was no way he could stay in his "pre-cast" spot. Desharnais is talking about "hoping" to still be with the team next year in his summer interviews, he knows something is coming.

Now that the season is over, you collect the data and set a new structure. It is not "simply ridiculous" it is what every team in the league does. What would be simply ridiculous is to claim that the past will define the future. This is pathetic and horrendous logic. Pleks won't be the best guy to support Max/Subban/Price over the next 5 years, I can say that with a high degree of confidence. I'm willing to walk away from 1-2 more year of such performance to get 3-4 years of better performance from another player (Eller and Galchenyuk center 1 and 2). And a good return from Pleks could give us a player we can use right now and over the next 5 years.

 

[417]

It means if you're looking to find someone who is a) available, b) more experienced, and c) more productive/effective in the playoffs, you're going to have a hard time finding someone better than Plekanec to supplement your depth chart. That should have been pretty obvious.

edit: The list, in case you're curious.

Got it...interesting list.

For the record, i'm definitely part of the group of people who think the Habs should use Plekanec as trade bait (note, I did not say give him away), but he's a very valuable player and any trade involving him needs to be measured not only against the return, but what aspirations the team has going forward.

if you're going to trade Plekanec for Picks/prospect, then you better be turning around and flipping those assets to acquire a true #1 center (or winger, whatever)