Tomáš Plekanec: Mr. Everything

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Team structure and experience defines icetime when comes the playoff, it doesn't mean that he was tactically the best men for the role at that point in the season (He was pre-cast into the role before the season started). In fact...

In fact, he was observably and measurably the best man for the role. Has been the story for a few years now. Don't tell me you haven't noticed, or seen either the games or the numbers broken down numerous ways over said years.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

For the record, i'm definitely part of the group of people who think the Habs should use Plekanec as trade bait...

Oh, really? I mean:

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I think Plekanec and Kesler are fairly equal.

Okaaay. We're done here.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

The problem with your search parameter is that you used 80+ games.

On that list i can see Scott Gomez at 27th. I would not acquire him as a replacement to Plekanec expecting better results.

I think your list is a bit cherry picked...

Complains about cherry-picking, selects Gomez out of the entire list to comment on...

In a few years he'll still be the kind of guy good teams hope to acquire to bolster their lineup to "serious contender" status. Low maintenance, durable, experience, talented veteran player. Did no one realize that Chicago just won the Cup with Brad Richards and Vermette playing major roles down the middle? I'll have to look back to earlier in the season when all the experts were so sure that Richards and Vermette are better players than Plekanec at this point... Oh wait, this board has been writing off the careers of both players for a while now (Vermette only slightly less so). We don't have a Toews, though, and that's the problem.

 

[shawdowmaker]

Plekanec is overrated.

 

[groovejuice]

Plekanec is overrated.

Plekanec is equally underrated.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Now this is why I come here lol. I love reading these kinds of delusions! If Plekanek is a high end 2 way player what the hell does that make Toews, Kopitar, Kesler, Bergeron, Datsuyk.....I could go on and name another dozen better 2 way centers who aren't afraid of their own shadow come playoffs.

Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron, Kesler and Datsyuk have been elite 2 way centers for many years.

If you don't think Plekanec is a high end 2 way center you are really wasting whatever time and energy you put into watching the game of hockey.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Plekanec is equally underrated.

True. It just depends on who you read/listen to. But his most lavish praise seems to come from those within the game, and his harshest criticism seems to come from those within HF Boards, so...

 

[Lions999]

It's time to put Pleks strictly third line center in defensive role...Chuckie and Eller should 1 and 2...DLR should be number 4 with Mitchell taking important draws....DLR will be a fanastic shut down center for years to come. His play started to decline when he was moved to the wing. It doesn't make sense that a coach removes a player from his natural position when that player comes to play in the best league. Same thing with young defencemen, you bring up to the NHL and then you put him on the wrong side in the best league. Doesn't make sense.

 

[groovejuice]

True. It just depends on who you read/listen to. But his most lavish praise seems to come from those within the game, and his harshest criticism seems to come from within HF Boards, so...

I find him to still be a highly valuable asset. He's a 1-2 tweener for certain, but had been our overall best centre for years. Let's not forget that we also drafted and developed him.

Defensively, he's easily top 15 in the league, IMO. Offensively, he's quite a bit lower, but still effective. He's too much a shoot first guy, and has some difficulty developing chemistry with many of his wingers. He and Gionta were a great duo until Brian was well past his prime.

Now might be the best time to move him, especially if Bergevin is considering a true transitional year. I'd expect to get a mid-first-rounder and decent prospect, and believe that's a realistic expectation.

I'd also be thrilled to keep him and be able to use him as our 3rd line C in a couple of years. That would be indicative of many improvements in the interim.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Complains about cherry-picking, selects Gomez out of the entire list to comment on...

Gomez doesn't matter. What matters is that you decided to put in a 80+ playoffs games parameter for no good reason other than presumably have Plekanec rank as high as possible. A bit dishonest if you use that list in order to claim that only 35 players are adequate replacements even if we only consider playoffs point production.

 

[Alexdaman]

Plekanec is equally underrated.

I think Plekanec is just rated

 

[groovejuice]

I think Plekanec is just rated

Not really. He's a polarizing player. Despite his successes.

 

[SOLR]

So the guy who finished 11th in points for defenceman, is barely top-4? That's laughable.

I never talked about his offensive contribution, like Gonchar, he will always have relatively high point totals. The issues become, how much of a defensive liability he will be.

So we can't get anything out of Plekanec and Markov, that's what you are saying, and then they are top pairing Ds and top forwards?

 

[SOLR]

In fact, he was observably and measurably the best man for the role. Has been the story for a few years now. Don't tell me you haven't noticed, or seen either the games or the numbers broken down numerous ways over said years.

I never argued about the time before the midseason this year. In the 2nd part of this season and in the playoff he was not, in any way, the best for his role (was he hurt?). I watch every game, he was dominated for most of the playoffs against the top guys in a way that Eller wasn't. Eller wasn't scoring more, however, he was noticeably more stable defensively and dangerous offensively. Also, he wasn't outmatched physically like Pleks was, clearly.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

I think in order for the Pacioretty-Plekanec line to be effective at 5 on 5 they need to have a quality playmaker playing on the right side.

The reason tehy always look so dangerous shorthanded together is that tehy are able to use their speed and transition game to get the team on the power play on their heels. Things are less chaotic at 5 on 5 so they lose that element.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Gomez doesn't matter. What matters is that you decided to put in a 80+ playoffs games parameter for no good reason other than presumably have Plekanec rank as high as possible. A bit dishonest if you use that list in order to claim that only 35 players are adequate replacements even if we only consider playoffs point production.

Yes, presumably... or obviously experience is important when you get to the playoffs. If you're not the "1st line centre" (like Plekanec SHOULDN'T be), and/or play on a very defense-oriented team, it might even be MORE important than production.

But you didn't even bother going through the list while considering criteria a) which was availability. Whatever the size of the list according to games played or PPG, the limiting factor is always availability. It's not just as simple as figuring that guys with similar games played or PPG "could" replace each other... list starts to get really small, really quick. Because, and get this, teams are reluctant to get rid of players that have been productive/effective, durable, professional, loyal, and good examples for young players for a long time for plenty of good reasons.

But if you want to mind warp yourself into perceiving some sort of "dishonesty" behind it, then fill your boots.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I never argued about the time before the midseason this year. In the 2nd part of this season and in the playoff he was not, in any way, the best for his role (was he hurt?). I watch every game, he was dominated for most of the playoffs against the top guys in a way that Eller wasn't. Eller wasn't scoring more, however, he was noticeably more stable defensively and dangerous offensively. Also, he wasn't outmatched physically like Pleks was, clearly.

Hmmm... and yet, Plekanec, in almost a 5 minute/night bigger role, against better players, ends with the +3 vs. Eller's 0... Maybe what you perceive as "effective" isn't really the "effective" that wins hockey games, I don't know. "More stable defensively and dangerous offensively"... ?? Uh, lol? Drop passes in the offensive zone that split the defensemen and escape the zone aren't really that dangerous, and I think only Gallagher and Pacioretty sent more pucks toward the net (who often got the puck from, you guessed it, Plekanec).

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Yes, presumably... or obviously experience is important when you get to the playoffs. If you're not the "1st line centre" (like Plekanec SHOULDN'T be), and/or play on a very defense-oriented team, it might even be MORE important than production.

But you didn't even bother going through the list while considering criteria a) which was availability. Whatever the size of the list according to games played or PPG, the limiting factor is always availability. It's not just as simple as figuring that guys with similar games played or PPG "could" replace each other... list starts to get really small, really quick. Because, and get this, teams are reluctant to get rid of players that have been productive/effective, durable, professional, loyal, and good examples for young players for a long time for plenty of good reasons.

But if you want to mind warp yourself into perceiving some sort of "dishonesty" behind it, then fill your boots.

Plekanec has played 81 playoffs games. If you had used 81 games instead of 80 as a cutoff, Plekanec would have been one rank higher since Gaborik has 80 games played. Just giving you tips for next time.

 

[SOLR]

Hmmm... and yet, Plekanec, in almost a 5 minute/night bigger role, against better players, ends with the +3 vs. Eller's 0... Maybe what you perceive as "effective" isn't really the "effective" that wins hockey games, I don't know. "More stable defensively and dangerous offensively"... ?? Uh, lol? Drop passes in the offensive zone that split the defensemen and escape the zone aren't really that dangerous, and I think only Gallagher and Pacioretty sent more pucks toward the net (who often got the puck from, you guessed it, Plekanec).

- You are grasping at straws with the +/-, I don't have to explain this one.
- +/- 5 min of icetime: it is not a meritocracy, stop it with the awful circular logic.
top linesmates = 5 more minutes = more shots = 5 more minutes = top linemates = 5 more minutes = more shots = 5 more minutes = top linemates.
- Gallagher was the engine of most plays, not Plekanec. Did you watch the games, it seems like you didn't, I'll send you a tape.
- 2 big mistakes in clutch times.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

- You are grasping at straws with the +/-, I don't have to explain this one.
- +/- 5 min of icetime: it is not a meritocracy, stop it with the awful circular logic.
top linesmates = 5 more minutes = more shots = 5 more minutes = top linemates = 5 more minutes = more shots = 5 more minutes = top linemates.
- Gallagher was the engine of most plays, not Plekanec. Did you watch the games, it seems like you didn't, I'll send you a tape.
- 2 big mistakes in clutch times.

Circular logic... that's rich. You haven't even established any logic behind "More stable defensively and dangerous offensively". And I don't expect you to. +/- is simply one number among many (scoring chances, corsi/shots, etc) that strongly suggest you're out to lunch.

 

[DAChampion]

Ohashi,

1) Many fans believe that Galchenyuk and Eller need more ice time for optimal development. How do you propose to do that without shifting Plekanec's role, given that Desharnais is not going anywhere?
2) Plekanec is 33 at the start of the season, he will be steadily declinong. If he has averaged out as a 53 point player in the last three, and a 61 point player in the three years before that, we can expect him to be a 45 point player in the next three years. Is that really worth more to the Habs than his trade value?

 

[Doc McKenna]

Got it...interesting list.

For the record, i'm definitely part of the group of people who think the Habs should use Plekanec as trade bait (note, I did not say give him away), but he's a very valuable player and any trade involving him needs to be measured not only against the return, but what aspirations the team has going forward.

if you're going to trade Plekanec for Picks/prospect, then you better be turning around and flipping those assets to acquire a true #1 center (or winger, whatever)

Or we start an actual rebuild and waste several more years of our best players primes.

 

[shawdowmaker]

It's time to put Pleks strictly third line center in defensive role...Chuckie and Eller should 1 and 2...DLR should be number 4 with Mitchell taking important draws....DLR will be a fanastic shut down center for years to come. His play started to decline when he was moved to the wing. It doesn't make sense that a coach removes a player from his natural position when that player comes to play in the best league. Same thing with young defencemen, you bring up to the NHL and then you put him on the wrong side in the best league. Doesn't make sense.

Plekanec is the perfect 3rd line center. The organization needs to understand this.