To Make Whole or Make Partial -- THAT is the question (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXV

[CBJWerenski8]

Do we really need MORE playoff teams?

I think that means splitting of playoff profits.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Do we really need MORE playoff teams?

I think it's the amount of money they get from playoff revenues based on where they finish.

Keep in mind they don't get paid for the playoffs but I believe they get bonuses based on what they win.

 

[BLONG7]

0.00b

Thought so, great job Mr Fehr...by the way, Goodenow is on line 1 Donnie...

 

[BrianSTC]

Yes you will. Careers are at stake now. Soon they will be fighting with each other. This season is lost and I can guarantee to the high heavens we see extreme backlash against the union. Many are still staying quiet because they think the NHL won't cancel... but when it comes time to do so, some will step up.

That's not to say Bettman won't cancel the season, because I think he absolutely will. Fehr is leading the players down a terrible road and it's sad to watch. Because I love this game, and the players will never win this battle. Never.

When the players ousted Paul Kelly. THEY decided to go down this road.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Renaud Lavoie‏@RenLavoieRDS

Still the major issues for PA on contracts are: Maximum 5 year contract. Arbitration and UFA push one year. That's what the NHL want.

 

[Spongolium*]

It's not like the NHL are even asking for much.........Fehr is such a clown.

 

[Clippy]

Can someone explain to me what Fehr gains from prolonging this strenuous negotiation process? Other than satisfying his ego? Does he get any financial rewards?
I'm not sure how this works..

 

[Gberg]

Renaud Lavoie‏@RenLavoieRDS

Still the major issues for PA on contracts are: Maximum 5 year contract. Arbitration and UFA push one year. That's what the NHL want.

Those are some pretty huge demands, the biggest of the player contract rights. NHL can't expect to get all of them. Maybe they get arbitration, but lose UFA pushed one year, and then maximum contract ends at 8-10 years or something.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I really think the NHL will budge on those issues if the PA would budge on the make whole issue or immediatly go to 50/50 without major reprocussions.

 

[Scottkmlps]

That's the point though. The players don't want a good relationship with the peeps who sign their check. Hiring Fehr was ALWAYS about getting revenge for the last CBA. Is the idea of revenge as a way to operate dumb? Of course. But the players aren't exactly being rational here.

When really, they won the last CBA. They were taking home 57% of what the league made. 57 ****ing percent. They won that CBA hands down. Yes, they had to take a hit at the beginning, but 90% of the players in the league weren't even part of that CBA. They say they are fighting for the future of the NHL, but also say just honor our contracts. Really, which is it? Either you are looking out for the future, or you are looking out for yourselves. In my opinion, they are looking out for themselves. Because really, $7.9 mill. per season is such a drastic step down from $8.0 mill? They are lead by a egotistical idiot who for some reason has brainwashed them to follow him, which in reality is leading them down a road of more losses than they would've gotten if they would've just signed the 50/50 deal. I shake my head at the stupidity of the players. It's mind boggling.

 

[Kings4thecup]

Do we really need MORE playoff teams?

Money paid to the players for playoff games played.

 

[Gberg]

It's not like the NHL are even asking for much.........Fehr is such a clown.

decrease to 50/50, 5 year maximum player contract, gains to team/owners regarding player arbitration, ufa delayed.

It actually is asking a lot.. but in negotiations.. compromise needs to be met, win on some things, lose on others.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

When really, they won the last CBA. They were taking home 57% of what the league made. 57 ****ing percent. They won that CBA hands down. Yes, they had to take a hit at the beginning, but 90% of the players in the league weren't even part of that CBA. They say they are fighting for the future of the NHL, but also say just honor our contracts. Really, which is it? Either you are looking out for the future, or you are looking out for yourselves. In my opinion, they are looking out for themselves. Because really, $7.9 mill. per season is such a drastic step down from $8.0 mill? They are lead by a egotistical idiot who for some reason has brainwashed them to follow him, which in reality is leading them down a road of more losses than they would've gotten if they would've just signed the 50/50 deal. I shake my head at the stupidity of the players. It's mind boggling.

Yeah, exactly. They made out like bandits in the last CBA but they still consider it a huge loss because of the cap. Mind boggling is bang on.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/20202/theo-fleury-i-have-no-sympathy-for-owners

Theo Fleury has no sympathy for owners

He’s still a player at heart, even though he’s not like today’s player.

"The game has changed," Fleury said Sunday at the HHOF Legends game at Air Canada Centre. "There’s a lot more money on the table. I think the players are a lot more business-orientated than we ever were. I was the guy that always said, 'Drop the puck, let’s play hockey.' But here’s how I see it: I do a lot of events all across Canada and I run into guys like Gordie Howe and Johnny Bower, who are still doing events. And I say, 'Why are you guys here?' They need to be there to make money. So I have no sympathy for the owners because of that. Because those are the icons of the game, the guys that I looked up to and wanted to emulate myself after. I’m fully behind the players and what they’re trying to accomplish."

 

[thinkwild]

One of Fehrs strengths is his communication with the players and keeping the union informed, strong, and united. When the league is trying to suggest that he isnt communicating, they are showing they are desperate. Perhaps Fehrs objective of aligning the players with the small markets is really starting to crack the owners. Maybe that's why Bettman is feeling pressure to negotiate still.

But the players have long maintained that they dont think they will see the owners best offer until December and obviously Bettman will not expect to see the PA's best offer until then either. That is the negotiation dance and style that the owners set up when they kept Bettman on, and the players know it, and so we will wait. Is that frustrating the little general? Well too bad, payback is a bummer eh. Maybe you should've given this offer last summer.

 

[BLONG7]

When really, they won the last CBA. They were taking home 57% of what the league made. 57 ****ing percent. They won that CBA hands down. Yes, they had to take a hit at the beginning, but 90% of the players in the league weren't even part of that CBA. They say they are fighting for the future of the NHL, but also say just honor our contracts. Really, which is it? Either you are looking out for the future, or you are looking out for yourselves. In my opinion, they are looking out for themselves. Because really, $7.9 mill. per season is such a drastic step down from $8.0 mill? They are lead by a egotistical idiot who for some reason has brainwashed them to follow him, which in reality is leading them down a road of more losses than they would've gotten if they would've just signed the 50/50 deal. I shake my head at the stupidity of the players. It's mind boggling.

They did win the last CBA, not the cap, but they won on all the details, so here we are now...

 

[Shrimper]

I'm kind've hoping that some players will start to criticise the PA because I truly believe that some information is being withheld. I can't see a season now.

 

[Spongolium*]

when you step outside of hfboards and into other social media sources it's frightening how dumb people are.

Take a look at theplayers# twitter account, or the comments at the end of any article.

 

[stuffradio]

When really, they won the last CBA. They were taking home 57% of what the league made. 57 ****ing percent. They won that CBA hands down. Yes, they had to take a hit at the beginning, but 90% of the players in the league weren't even part of that CBA. They say they are fighting for the future of the NHL, but also say just honor our contracts. Really, which is it? Either you are looking out for the future, or you are looking out for yourselves. In my opinion, they are looking out for themselves. Because really, $7.9 mill. per season is such a drastic step down from $8.0 mill? They are lead by a egotistical idiot who for some reason has brainwashed them to follow him, which in reality is leading them down a road of more losses than they would've gotten if they would've just signed the 50/50 deal. I shake my head at the stupidity of the players. It's mind boggling.

No one would be surprised or make a big deal out of it if they didn't lie and said, "we're doing this for ourselves". Instead they come up with an opaque lie, "we're doing this for the future of the game".

 

[pucka lucka]

decrease to 50/50, 5 year maximum player contract, gains to team/owners regarding player arbitration, ufa delayed.

It actually is asking a lot.. but in negotiations.. compromise needs to be met, win on some things, lose on others.

The players can hold out for all they want, but nobody can outline how they will not lose at this stage. Maybe that's where this 100% of this years salaries nonsense is coming from. The PA scrambling to make up for their error in judgement.

 

[MacOfNiagara]

Yes, until they say, "Season cancelled!". Than wait for the player quotes on twitter.

I think this is what will happen.

The first wave of tweets will be along the lines of 'arbitrary date', 'we just want to play and they wont let us', and 'they didnt have to do this'

But I then suspect the simmer of discontent will begin to boil under the surface as the gravity and reality of the situation dawns on the players.

 

[BLONG7]

One of Fehrs strengths is his communication with the players and keeping the union informed, strong, and united. When the league is trying to suggest that he isnt communicating, they are showing they are desperate. Perhaps Fehrs objective of aligning the players with the small markets is really starting to crack the owners. Maybe that's why Bettman is feeling pressure to negotiate still.

But the players have long maintained that they dont think they will see the owners best offer until December and obviously Bettman will not expect to see the PA's best offer until then either. That is the negotiation dance and style that the owners set up when they kept Bettman on, and the players know it, and so we will wait. Is that frustrating the little general? Well too bad, payback is a bummer eh. Maybe you should've given this offer last summer.

Is that you Don? Remember when the league tried to negotiate last year, you said no thanks...

 

[Spongolium*]

I'm kind've hoping that some players will start to criticise the PA because I truly believe that some information is being withheld. I can't see a season now.

Information has been witheld throughout the negotiations. It's the reason that the owners were allowed to talk to the players for that short period of time. Funny thing is, Steve Fehr was sent back to the table to talk to Daly immediatly after that happened. Why wasn't big Don sent, after all, wasn't he brought in for this kind of thing, isn't he the expert in negotiations?

I personally believe that the players are losing a good deal of faith in Fehr. It's taken them this long to realise that this isn't a game anymore. They are seriously looking at losing a season. The NHL owners haven't tried to taunt or goad the players one bit. When the owners set a deadline, they came through on it. All the while Fehr was laughing and joking, informing the media and the players that they were "NHL deadlines" and that they wouldn't go through on it.

0-3 now Fehr. Whats next? You gonna see if Bettman is bluffing when he informs you that no hockey in december = no season? ****ing moron.

 

[Renbarg]

They did win the last CBA, not the cap, but they won on all the details, so here we are now...

Not even close. The CBA has been good to the players, but that does not mean they
"won." First of all, they would have preferred no salary cap. Eventually they agreed to a soft cap with a luxury tax. When that didn't fly they wanted a de-linked cap. They eventually agreed to a linked cap. That was the crux of the issue. Everything else was not nearly as important. Same thing will happen here. Negotiations will move when the players agree to a linked HRR split. All the ancillary issues will take care of themselves.

 

[stuffradio]

One of Fehrs strengths is his communication with the players and keeping the union informed, strong, and united. When the league is trying to suggest that he isnt communicating, they are showing they are desperate. Perhaps Fehrs objective of aligning the players with the small markets is really starting to crack the owners. Maybe that's why Bettman is feeling pressure to negotiate still.

But the players have long maintained that they dont think they will see the owners best offer until December and obviously Bettman will not expect to see the PA's best offer until then either. That is the negotiation dance and style that the owners set up when they kept Bettman on, and the players know it, and so we will wait. Is that frustrating the little general? Well too bad, payback is a bummer eh. Maybe you should've given this offer last summer.

Maybe the PA shouldn't have given the phony excuse, "We can't negotiate while we're playing" and in the Fall after they're locked out say, "we just want to play and negotiate at the same time!"