To Make Whole or Make Partial -- THAT is the question (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXV

[MacOfNiagara]

Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Fehr -- #nHL expects players to accept owners proposal 'to the comma'

Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Bill Daly:"PA give us 17 issues on players contract last week. We have a deal, or made progress on 14 of them.

One gives rhetoric
One gives specifics

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Fehr needs to realize he's no longer dealing with a patsy like Bud Selig. These negotiations are going to fracture and cause dissension (once again) to the NHLPA. The league is going to make the players bleed and starve. And when they come back to the table, the players are the ones who are going to be pushing in desperation to get a deal done. They have zero leverage in bargaining for what Fehr is asking for (nothing below the $1.8B the players took home last season).

 

[Scottkmlps]

Donald just accept it, you're not going to win this war. Selig was a push over, Bettman is not. Just give it up, let your ego go, you're going to lose this battle. Oh, and give the players the NHL's full last offer. You'll save face when they vote to take it.

 

[McJeety McJeet]

Fehr needs to realize he's no longer dealing with a patsy like Bud Selig. These negotiations are going to fracture and cause dissension (once again) to the NHLPA. The league is going to make the players bleed and starve. And when they come back to the table, the players are the ones who are going to be pushing in desperation to get a deal done. They have zero leverage in bargaining for what Fehr is asking for (nothing below the $1.8B the players took home last season).

I hope the NHL jumps over from the rational side of the fence and joins the players over on the principle side. Would love seeing the Fehr's get crushed. Sucks that it would hurt the players and the game in the process but man would it be satisfying.

 

[ColePens]

Sorry to come in late guys, but this has been a roller coaster weekend with negotiations and I was out for most of it. What is the overall consensus right now? Is the feel still negative around here?

I've been reading the last couple pages but couldn't spot whether it's good or bad.

 

[kfan22]

sorry to come in late guys, but this has been a roller coaster weekend with negotiations and i was out for most of it. What is the overall consensus right now? Is the feel still negative around here?

I've been reading the last couple pages but couldn't spot whether it's good or bad.

negative negative negative

 

[rdawg1234]

I'm just not sure exactly what Fehr and the PA want from the contracts anyway.

The NHL want some kind of limit, internally i;m not sure what they are aiming for but my guess would be 8-10 years, with 5% variance staying in place. The PA is not going to get more than this, so I hope they dont expect to.

The NHL wants linkage, delinkage is not going to be accepted after it's been rejected for the past 4 months or so.

 

[________]

Hopefully some players are asking questions like this to Fehr.

Chris Therien @ctherien6
Because quite frankly I'm not in the mood to fight the good fight for some kid 10 years from now. Ain't gonna do it again! Retweeted by Russostrib

Chris Therien @ctherien6
If I'm a player right this very min and I'm about to lose 2-3 million this year, I require an answer to the alternative! Retweeted by Russostrib

Chris Therien @ctherien6
You know, I go back to 04 lockout as a player. 1 question I would have asked Goodenow now that I've been thru this- what exactly is plan B? Retweeted by Russostrib

 

[Bob b smith]

One gives rhetoric
One gives specifics

Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Daly - confirmed what Fehr said; no real room to move on player contract issues: 'we had a candid discussion' #nhl

Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Daly said NHL did give on 14 of 17 issues -- things like minimum salaries; play off pool; waiver rules. Not make or break issues tho.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Damien Cox take;

Damien Cox ‏@DamoSpin
I really feel for NHL players. Once again, they seem oblivious to what is happening to them. They really think Bettman is the problem.

Would be interesting to ask the average player that gets minimum salary there take on Fehr and how he's handled this so far. It's funny that everybody else see's the damage that Fehr has done to the P.A. except the P.A. It's like the players have become robots. Really, it has.

 

[rdawg1234]

Chris Therien @ctherien6
Because quite frankly I'm not in the mood to fight the good fight for some kid 10 years from now. Ain't gonna do it again! Retweeted by Russostrib

Chris Therien @ctherien6
If I'm a player right this very min and I'm about to lose 2-3 million this year, I require an answer to the alternative! Retweeted by Russostrib

Chris Therien @ctherien6
You know, I go back to 04 lockout as a player. 1 question I would have asked Goodenow now that I've been thru this- what exactly is plan B? Retweeted by Russostrib

Is this from today?

EDIT: woops misread this, so really the player is saying what can we do to end this now?

 

[Scottkmlps]

Hopefully some players are asking questions like this to Fehr.

Chris Therien @ctherien6
Because quite frankly I'm not in the mood to fight the good fight for some kid 10 years from now. Ain't gonna do it again! Retweeted by Russostrib

Chris Therien @ctherien6
If I'm a player right this very min and I'm about to lose 2-3 million this year, I require an answer to the alternative! Retweeted by Russostrib

Chris Therien @ctherien6
You know, I go back to 04 lockout as a player. 1 question I would have asked Goodenow now that I've been thru this- what exactly is plan B? Retweeted by Russostrib

And here comes the Fehr backlash. Expect more in the next couple of days.

 

[rdawg1234]

Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Daly - confirmed what Fehr said; no real room to move on player contract issues: 'we had a candid discussion' #nhl

Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Daly said NHL did give on 14 of 17 issues -- things like minimum salaries; play off pool; waiver rules. Not make or break issues tho.

makes sense, the big issue is the variance, arbitration and length limits.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I bet the league is pretty pissed they gave in on other smaller areas, in the hopes the players would sign off on the bigger core issues.
Fehr has certainly done a number on the league. Theres no question the leagues plan A would be to bleed the players out if they don't get what they consider the right structure in a deal.

Things aren't looking great right now for December.1. Theres still the more critical full season cutoff point though where the PA and league may have even more pressure to get something done.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Is this from today?

can these guys do math? with the make-whole offer and 0% growth the max a player will lose off say a 5 mil salary is 300k. with any kind of growth over the next couple years they wont lose a dime.

I read this as a slam against the P.A. leadership.

 

[Fred Glover]

On the one hand, I would like to see the NHL back this season. But not at all costs.

As a Browns fan I have seen my team move, then restart. I have gone without the NHL for one season, I have gone with the NFL for three seasons. I have learned that I don't need the NFL. And I certainly don't need the NHL.

So a part of me, wickedly, would like to see both sides destroy the NHL. Close it down for this season, even the next. Then let's see them try to build something up that they both have destroyed. It would be fun to see them try to woo the fans back whom they have both forgotten about in this whole process.

The only folks I feel sorry for are the average people whose lives have been changed because of the greed on both sides: the vendors, the bar and restaraunt owners, etc.

So cancel the season, boys, I hope you do enough damage to yourselves that you really end up hurting both of your causes. Go nuclear. That would really be fun to watch. In a wicked sort of way.

Then when you restart, the process becomes making whole with the fans, and that would be really fascinating to watch

 

[pucka lucka]

I don't think there's anything nefarious at work here. I think Fehr's strategy has been to wait out the NHL and put the league in a situation where it's negotiating against itself. Seems to have worked to some degree to this point. Of course we don't know the specifics of what details both sides have reached "agreement" on, though it doesn't sound like any of them are the major core issues.

Worked? The players are losing money daily. There is no way this has worked for the PA.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Hopefully some players are asking questions like this to Fehr.

Chris Therien @ctherien6
Because quite frankly I'm not in the mood to fight the good fight for some kid 10 years from now. Ain't gonna do it again! Retweeted by Russostrib

Chris Therien @ctherien6
If I'm a player right this very min and I'm about to lose 2-3 million this year, I require an answer to the alternative! Retweeted by Russostrib

Chris Therien @ctherien6
You know, I go back to 04 lockout as a player. 1 question I would have asked Goodenow now that I've been thru this- what exactly is plan B? Retweeted by Russostrib

I saw the name Therien in the style of a lockout tweet and got excited there for a moment

 

[1865]

I don't give a crap who gets what. I just want hockey. I think i'm allowed to be a little selfish here, especially if the worst case scenario for the players results in them continuing to earn a minimum of ~$500k a year

 

[Puckstopper]

And here comes the Fehr backlash. Expect more in the next couple of days.

He's a former player though. If there are current players unhappy with the way things are going I think there's always going to be a reluctance to speak out against your own union publicly. It would be interesting to see happen though.

 

[Freudian]

McKenzie


"There is no question the NHL has grown increasingly exasperated by Fehr, who takes passive aggressive to an art form. There is a notion within league headquarters that he has no interest in making a deal, that he's looking for this dispute to go nuclear so he can either challenge the NHL's entire salary cap system in a protracted battle that would likely carry over to next season or fight the owners for as long as it takes to, as Fehr is wont to say, break the cycle of owners putting a gun to players' heads in chronic takeaway negotiations."

 

[McJC]

McKenzie


"There is no question the NHL has grown increasingly exasperated by Fehr, who takes passive aggressive to an art form. There is a notion within league headquarters that he has no interest in making a deal, that he's looking for this dispute to go nuclear so he can either challenge the NHL's entire salary cap system in a protracted battle that would likely carry over to next season or fight the owners for as long as it takes to, as Fehr is wont to say, break the cycle of owners putting a gun to players' heads in chronic takeaway negotiations."

If that's really Fehr's intention, then we won't see this thing coming to an end for a looonngg time.

 

[pucka lucka]

McKenzie


"There is no question the NHL has grown increasingly exasperated by Fehr, who takes passive aggressive to an art form. There is a notion within league headquarters that he has no interest in making a deal, that he's looking for this dispute to go nuclear so he can either challenge the NHL's entire salary cap system in a protracted battle that would likely carry over to next season or fight the owners for as long as it takes to, as Fehr is wont to say, break the cycle of owners putting a gun to players' heads in chronic takeaway negotiations."

Putting guns to their heads and paying them millions. It's freakin' zealotry. I don't understand it at all. I refuse to acknowledge someone an expert when they aren't driven by facts & knowledge, but ideology. This isn't the 1920's dude.

 

[Spongolium*]

Good luck Fehr, The Coyotes will make money this season, as will a number of other teams that were set to lose 20 million dollars.

As a open question here, can the NHL legally ask that Fehr be removed from negotiations if they believe that he is not in the mindset of accepting any kind of deal?

 

[pucka lucka]

Good luck Fehr, The Coyotes will make money this season, as will a number of other teams that were set to lose 20 million dollars.

As a open question here, can the NHL legally ask that Fehr be removed from negotiations if they believe that he is not in the mindset of accepting any kind of deal?

No, they could go the impasse route and the NHL's CBA would become active. The NHL won't want to go there.