Post-Game Talk: Tippett, Smith, Bear and RNH

[CupofOil]

I see a roster that won't win a Cup, but shouldn't be first round fodder in this division. We're at worst the third best team here.

Did the season end already? I didn't get the memo.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes they were, and the Caps went back to being the Caps the instant he left.

Nashville has its own set of issues that's finally seeing them at rock bottom this year.

A good coach can do wonders for a team. I don't think Tippett is some magical coaching savant.


So what you're saying is that the GM....

When have I said different. Its all been on GM. First Chiarelli bombing the lineup and screwing the capspace for years with disaster contracts. Holland has made ample mistakes as well but people are prepared to give him this offseason, the first time he's had reasonable capspace to try to do something.

But at least Holland has added to the stable. Players like Archibald, Barrie, even Kahun should be part of a mix going forward. Even signing up Shore is a better addition than he's given credit for. No other team saw anything in Shore. I think he could still be a useful player. But that said, other than Barrie and Archibald those are modest gains. 4K waa probably been a decent add as well but injured now for a long long time. People don't realize how many players we have had out of the lineup longterm, or not even able to play properly like Neal. I mean we're so desperate for players were playing Neal who can't skate for 30 secs. The best hope we have for anythng from Neal is he scores on a first rush. Even Smith realizes that trying to hit him for a break last game. Theres hardly anyway you can use Neal, but the club desperately is short on vet forwards in the lineup. I mean are taxi squad other than Kahun is awful.

The only criticism of Tippett is he's keeping Bouchard out of the lineup, so that a very young D can learn the NHL game, watch and learn. Bouchard is the long game.

 

[Little Fury]

Look at the roster and you tell me. Do you see a roster that belongs in the elite? Is your expectation that 55-37 after finishing bottom 10 two seasons ago isn't good enough and is a fireable offense?

If you expected more than we've seen under Tippett thus far, I would say that you have unreasonable expectations.

BTW, the previous two coaches had these two great players and finished bottom 10 twice just for comparison and to illustrate that it takes a whole lot more than two players to win in this league.

I'm never going to argue this roster is a world beater, but it should be good enough for a playoff spot and if they don't make it this season, then yeah, heads should probably roll (starting at the very top with the burger man).

 

[CupofOil]

I'm never going to argue this roster is a world beater, but it should be good enough for a playoff spot and if they don't make it this season, then yeah, heads should probably roll (starting at the very top with the burger man).

Agreed.

I'm just arguing with those who are claiming that he should be fired now. If they miss the playoffs, absolutely his status should come into question. It's a flawed roster but they should at least make the playoffs.

 

[Snipes45]

No suspension for Khaira. Their guy finished the game and he came to almost a full stop. It was in the wrong spot, but it looked more like a nudge to me.

Of course those inbreds are complaining. I wish our team had more ballz and more guys would play greasy dirty like they do.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Did the season end already? I didn't get the memo.

You already know my stance on this. Anything less than a second round appearance should be deemed a failure of a season.

When have I said different. Its all been on GM. First Chiarelli bombing the lineup and screwing the capspace for years with disaster contracts. Holland has made ample mistakes as well but people are prepared to give him this offseason, the first time he's had reasonable capspace to try to do something.

But at least Holland has added to the stable. Players like Archibald, Barrie, even Kahun should be part of a mix going forward. Even signing up Shore is a better addition than he's given credit for. No other team saw anything in Shore. I think he could still be a useful player. But that said, other than Barrie and Archibald those are modest gains. 4K waa probably been a decent add as well but injured now for a long long time. People don't realize how many players we have had out of the lineup longterm, or not even able to play properly like Neal. I mean we're so desperate for players were playing Neal who can't skate for 30 secs. The best hope we have for anythng from Neal is he scores on a first rush. Even Smith realizes that trying to hit him for a break last game. Theres hardly anyway you can use Neal, but the club desperately is short on vet forwards in the lineup. I mean are taxi squad other than Kahun is awful.

The only criticism of Tippett is he's keeping Bouchard out of the lineup, so that a very young D can learn the NHL game, watch and learn. Bouchard is the long game.

Meanwhile Bear and Jones continue to get eaten alive, RNH can't hit anything, and Koskinen looks ECHL bound. And that's not even getting into the ghost that is Zack.

Bouchard's not going to learn squat if he plays once every 5 games, and then gets benched for having an off game.

 

[Drivesaitl]

who's saying Trotz isn't a great coach?

you seem to think Trotz took over one of the worst teams in the league and turned them into a contender overnight...the Isles made the playoffs 3 times since 2012-13 including 3 straight 40+ win seasons
they already had a roster of decent players, even without Tavares

Trotz is the gold standard coach. They don't get better. I don't think any other coach gets the Preds as far as they were, the Caps a SC, or the Islanders as good as they've been. The Islanders are a non playoff club without Trotz imo.

 

[CupofOil]

You already know my stance on this. Anything less than a second round appearance should be deemed a failure of a season.

.

Fair but the season hasn't ended yet so why even discuss or even promote a Tippett firing (like you've been doing) right now?

 

[Drivesaitl]

You already know my stance on this. Anything less than a second round appearance should be deemed a failure of a season.


Meanwhile Bear and Jones continue to get eaten alive, RNH can't hit anything, and Koskinen looks ECHL bound. And that's not even getting into the ghost that is Zack.

Bouchard's not going to learn squat if he plays once every 5 games, and then gets benched for having an off game.

Jones has never been an NHL player. Jury out on whether he ever will be. I mean lets be clear here, we're not talking about somebody that lost his NHL game.

In the case of Bear he was divebombed into way too much toi last season and its the last thing Tippett would do given choices. With Larsson being awful last season, and a short D stable what options did Tippett have last seasn other than Bear filling appreciable minutes. We were strapped for any D that could even step in, and then Holland goes out and gets Greene, and he plays one game here, lol.

Lots of times last year it was looking like he'd have to see if the Zamboni drive could play D. Maybe get K Lowe to suit up....

Look at our D roster and depth last season. horrendous and Klef was playing much of the season hurt and couldn't even go in the play ins. Klef was done somewhere in February, over a year ago, and was just playing hurt being half the player.

Bear was in for a lot of reasons. He got wrecked by it. Was far too soon. But that is all on Holland for not getting anybody in here.

I'm not gonna browbeat RNH anymore than I have. He is what he is, no coach is changing that much short of maybe Trotz.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Fair but the season hasn't ended yet so why even discuss or even promote a Tippett firing (like you've been doing) right now?

I just don't like his lineup decisions on any level. I also don't think he's a great motivator. The team should've been fired up to put the Flames in their place and once again they didn't start to try until they were behind on the scoreboard. And all too often, when they eventually made their way back, someone inevitably effed up and they lost the game.

I'm really sick and tired of the Oilers only trying in crucial games where they fall behind. They should've walked the Flames. The Flames walked them.

 

[ujju2]

Trotz is the gold standard coach. They don't get better. I don't think any other coach gets... the Caps a SC , or the Islanders as good as they've been. The Islanders are a non playoff club without Trotz imo.

Gotta disagree with the bolded, I think the Ovi-era Caps would have one a cup at some point regardless, but you're right that Trotz is the best of the best.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Fair but the season hasn't ended yet so why even discuss or even promote a Tippett firing (like you've been doing) right now?

Because @Cloned, one of the captains and leaders of this board has full threads sayng the season has already failed. I mean well with this, but its kind of funny, we have a lot of landing strip left to be talking failure as if we're in exit season posting..

In GK's defense a lot of people have been jumping off

 

[GOilers88]

We're in the sixth year of icing the two best players in the entire league, IDK why we shouldn't have high expectations.

I totally understand this sentiment. But after 15 years of improperly building and structuring the organization, at some point if you want it done correctly you have to accept that it's going to take a few years of slow, annual growth combined with good drafting and developing.

With or without McDavid doesn't really matter in my opinion. Either people want this done properly,or we bandaid for the sake of keeping McDavid happy in the immediate short term and pray to God it results in a cup. I prefer the measured approach, and we'll know for sure this summer if Ken Holland is the guy to do it.

If McDavid wants to leave when his contract is up he's going to leave. I'd rather the organization be in a position to not be completely and utterly devastated by it. That means building your franchise from the inside out. If he leaves and we've thrown a bunch of picks out along with a bunch of money on expensive free agents and he leaves anyways, we're right back to the start of a new decade of darkness.

 

[Stoneman89]

Gotta disagree with the bolded, I think the Ovi-era Caps would have one a cup at some point regardless, but you're right that Trotz is the best of the best.

It's interesting to note that pre-Cap career, Trotz was thought of as a decent coach who wasn't good enough to get a very good club (Nashville) over the hump. Matter of fact, they routinely choked in the playoffs, and that's why ownership finally had enough and decided to go in a different direction from him. Winning the (one) cup in Washington changed everything in perception about him. Sometimes that's all it takes, from changing someone labelled as a choker and not good enough, to being one of the best.

 

[Cloned]

Because @Cloned, one of the captains and leaders of this board has full threads sayng the season has already failed. I mean well with this, but its kind of funny, we have a lot of landing strip left to be talking failure as if we're in exit season posting..

In GK's defense a lot of people have been jumping off

Which threads are those?

 

[Little Fury]

I totally understand this sentiment. But after 15 years of improperly building and structuring the organization, at some point if you want it done correctly you have to accept that it's going to take a few years of slow, annual growth combined with good drafting and developing.

The problem is "we need to take small steps and draft and develop" as a plan is the timeline for success then stretches into infinity. There needs to be a point where you decide to go for it. I'm not saying we're there yet, but we're closer than many think.

 

[GOilers88]

The problem is "we need to take small steps and draft and develop" as a plan is the timeline for success then stretches into infinity. There needs to be a point where you decide to go for it. I'm not saying we're there yet, but we're closer than many think.

I do agree with you that I think we're closer than a lot of people think. In my own delusions I sort of had Holland on a three year plan, and I even made a thread about it, which is why I'm still hesitant to jump on any select players, the coach or the man himself,as I think this summer will be the one that determines whether we're actually turning the page on the book of shit or just giving it another read.

I see and agree with a lot of the general assessments around here. But I also think a lot of people think that because previous management decided to make it near impossible to ice a well rounded team around McDavid and waste his first few years, it means that Holland had to put it in 5th gear to make up for it, and I think that's much of the same recipe for disaster as we've seen for years already.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Which threads are those?

The fire threads, the convo we just had yesterday where you said Tippett failed. Are you toying with me?

I was being playful with that if it didn't come off that way.

 

[Cloned]

The fire threads, the convo we just had yesterday where you said Tippett failed. Are you toying with me?

I was being playful with that if it didn't come off that way.

Fire threads are not a expression that the season is over, they are a expression of distrust and nonsatisfaction over the coach’s performance.

I don’t have it out for Tippett; I made a Tippett appreciation thread just last year. But something changed post trade deadline and he’s been mostly bad with his decision making ever since.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Fire threads are not a expression that the season is over, they are a expression of distrust and nonsatisfaction over the coach’s performance.

I don’t have it out for Tippett; I made a Tippett appreciation thread just last year. But something changed post trade deadline and he’s been mostly bad with his decision making ever since.

heh, i know my memory is bad but you were stating that tippet has failed just yesterday. Perhaps the meaning of that is taken incorrectly out of context but failed is probably a harsh word and connotes more like the season has failied or that his duration of incumbency has failed. he's taken non playoff rosters and gotten them into playoff contention, both seasons.

 

[Cloned]

heh, i know my memory is bad but you were stating that tippet has failed just yesterday. Perhaps the meaning of that is taken incorrectly out of context but failed is probably a harsh word and connotes more like the season has failied or that his duration of incumbency has failed. he's taken non playoff rosters and gotten them into playoff contention, both seasons.

Saying Tippett is failing isn’t saying that the season has already completely failed as a whole.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Saying Tippett is failing isn’t saying that the season has already completely failed as a whole.

Technically true. The context seemed to be that you felt the coaching needed to change to resurrect the season. I took it that way. Thanks for clarifying and getting back on the cart.

My cat is talking to me and wants to go for a walk. She's making it a priority because she's kind of incessant when its a sunny day, or any day.. I have to go now. heh

 

[Cloned]

Technically true. The context seemed to be that you felt the coaching needed to change to resurrect the season. I took it that way. Thanks for clarifying and getting back on the cart.

My cat is talking to me and wants to go for a walk. She's making it a priority because she's kind of incessant when its a sunny day, or any day.. I have to go now. heh

I think the team can be better if Tippett is fired. I guess that’s kind of a resurrection?

Don't tell me you're leaving now just when things are getting interesting?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think the team can be better if Tippett is fired. I guess that’s kind of a resurrection?

Fired and replaced with someone better. Though there's very much reason to doubt that the Oilers will find someone better.

Tippett of course isn't the biggest problem with the team. But it's a more feasible solution than absolutely torching the front office. Or acquiring John Gibson.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think the team can be better if Tippett is fired. I guess that’s kind of a resurrection?

Don't tell me you're leaving now just when things are getting interesting?

I could sense a long back and forth coming up and I'm conserving my posting energies for the game and aftermath. Gotta pace out and be ready for the timely posting.

So nice outside. Even the cat stopped complaining. The wife is still complaining a bit.