Post-Game Talk: Tippett, Smith, Bear and RNH

[CantHaveTkachev]

Let me know when we're a team of the Lightning's quality.

so you admit it's the quality of the team and not the coach?

 

[Drivesaitl]

I disagree that things become dire with a loss tonight. The team would still be three points up on Calgary, and potentially still 3 on Montreal and 6 on Vancouver. Montreal has 3 in hand and Calgary 2, but I think equating those games in hand to automatic wins for those teams is just overdramatics.

Dire to me would be being out of a playoff spot with a couple of games to go, so maybe we just have differing on the definition of dire.

Yeah, theres a lot more resilience to this Tippett run club than the 3 game stint with the Leafs indicated. I mean as bad as that was how many people would have thought that the team would have responded by winning the next 4, nobody called that.

Montreal and Calgary have both already called their coach fire cards. Theres a shelf life for how much that makes a difference and in the case of Montreal they had a reasonably good coach. Their problem wasn't coaching, it was their roster. Fortunately for them they got a hot start and they got a lot of loser pts.

Teams generally play better for the first two weeks a new coach is on deck. Its natural, everybody wants to show best for the new guy. To stay in the lineup, to stay getting toi. To not get bumped down or end up out of the new coaches plans. So that really does motivate a whole collection of players to work harder. What we saw on Monday wasn't a Kings schemed team, it was a club playing with more fight and desperation. It wasn't fancy, they were bringing intensity and a lot of pop on the forecheck. This could be the best Lucic has played since 16-17. he hit both Draisaitl and Smith within the first to mins of the game. Flames were bringing the house. The Oilers didn't know what hit them and had to feel their way into the game because the Flames were really playing this with urgency, like it was a playoff game. Catch the Flames at the end of the month and there could be some sleepers in there when momentary desperation eases off and players go back to some usual habits.

Tippett is the best coach we've had in here in years and its not even close. Faults, yeah, almost all coaches got em. You live with those while realizing he's improved your club in almost every aspect.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

so you admit it's the quality of the team and not the coach?

The Lightning are absolutely in no way like the Oilers whatsoever. It's a bad comparison and you know it.

We're not a Stanley Cup contender, and I don't think Tippett is the guy who's going to take us to the next level.

If the Oilers fail to win any playoff rounds this year (or don't even make it), what would you do? Stay the course?

 

[GOilers88]

The Lightning are absolutely in no way like the Oilers whatsoever. It's a bad comparison and you know it.

We're not a Stanley Cup contender, and I don't think Tippett is the guy who's going to take us to the next level.

If the Oilers fail to win any playoff rounds this year (or don't even make it), what would you do? Stay the course?

If if's and buts were candy and nuts.

I get where you're coming from, but a lot of your criticisms seem to come in the form of "what if this worst case scenario happens".

Obviously if the team misses the playoffs you'll see a lot more people who are backing the management and coaching start turning up the heat. But there's lots left to go in this season, and I believe the team can get it done so I don't understand the point in getting upset over hypotheticals.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The Lightning are absolutely in no way like the Oilers whatsoever. It's a bad comparison and you know it.

We're not a Stanley Cup contender, and I don't think Tippett is the guy who's going to take us to the next level.

and some people thought Cooper was the same thing...until he won

If the Oilers fail to win any playoff rounds this year (or don't even make it), what would you do? Stay the course?

clearly the only solution is to continually fire coach after coach lol

 

[CupofOil]

The Lightning are absolutely in no way like the Oilers whatsoever. It's a bad comparison and you know it.

We're not a Stanley Cup contender, and I don't think Tippett is the guy who's going to take us to the next level.

If the Oilers fail to win any playoff rounds this year (or don't even make it), what would you do? Stay the course?

The heat will, and should, be turned up if they miss the playoffs (it would be a big fail) but that hasn't happened and they aren't in position for that to happen so why bitch about it now.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Lightning are absolutely in no way like the Oilers whatsoever. It's a bad comparison and you know it.

We're not a Stanley Cup contender, and I don't think Tippett is the guy who's going to take us to the next level.

If the Oilers fail to win any playoff rounds this year (or don't even make it), what would you do? Stay the course?

Why wouldn't you stay the course? Its not Tippetts fault that the org screwed around, bombed out their lineup with Chiarelli of found ample coaches that were just fill ins. Not tippetts fault the org didn't do anything in the first 4yrs of McD to improve the club.

This year and last Tippett has got this club actually improving, with the limited roster it had. Its up to Holland now to put together a few more additions so that the club can be a legitimate force, and with a coach that knows the club that can realize how to get a lot out of it.

Firing the coach now is something a mickey mouse org like the Flames would do to temporarily put off what are obvious problems. Its something Montreal did, and in denial that the primary problem on that club is offense. I can't describe how bad Montreal would be if Toffoli wasnt knocking it out of the ballpark in career high terms. I mean I wanted that guy here. For years. Kings were going to deal Toffoli, that was a known, Oilers asleep at the switch.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

If if's and buts were candy and nuts.

I get where you're coming from, but a lot of your criticisms seem to come in the form of "what if this worst case scenario happens".

Obviously if the team misses the playoffs you'll see a lot more people who are backing the management and coaching start turning up the heat. But there's lots left to go in this season, and I believe the team can get it done so I don't understand the point in getting upset over hypotheticals.

When it comes to the Oilers, the worst case scenario is often closer than we'd like.

I still think the team makes the playoffs, fwiw.

and some people thought Cooper was the same thing...until he won


clearly the only solution is to continually fire coach after coach lol

When you consistently hire mediocre coaches, guess what happens. Maybe the org should take a deeper look when it comes to their hires.

 

[Little Fury]

Team is 55-37 under him but yeah, lets scapegoat another coach. Brilliant

I'm sure Gallant would have taken this average roster to the promised land by now.

It feel weird defending Tipp because I wasn't crazy about the hire and I'm really not his biggest fan but some of you guys need to measure your expectations of how good this team is and should be.

We're in the sixth year of icing the two best players in the entire league, IDK why we shouldn't have high expectations.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

When you consistently hire mediocre coaches, guess what happens. Maybe the org should take a deeper look when it comes to their hires.

the second the Oilers go on a bad losing streak with coaching legend Gerard Gallant, you'd be asking for him to be fired...I guarantee it

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why wouldn't you stay the course? Its not Tippetts fault that the org screwed around, bombed out their lineup with Chiarelli of found ample coaches that were just fill ins. Not tippetts fault the org didn't do anything in the first 4yrs of McD to improve the club.

This year and last Tippett has got this club actually improving, with the limited roster it had. Its up to Holland now to put together a few more additions so that the club can be a legitimate force, and with a coach that knows the club that can realize how to get a lot out of it.

Firing the coach now is something a mickey mouse org like the Flames would do to temporarily put off what are obvious problems. Its something Montreal did, and in denial that the primary problem on that club is offense. I can't describe how bad Montreal would be if Toffoli wasnt knocking it out of the ballpark in career high terms. I mean I wanted that guy here. For years. Kings were going to deal Toffoli, that was a known, Oilers asleep at the switch.

I think last year we coasted on unsustainable special teams, and were exposed badly in the play-ins. This year we don't have the benefit of superhuman special teams (and our PK sucks).

Saying Tippett is the best coach we've had in years is an incredibly low bar to leap over (and I think McLellan was better anyway). As for Holland, he has some space to make moves this offseason and he damn well better because we're still complete ass in net and on defense, and on the wing. He can start by jettisoning Neal and Kassian to Seattle along with Koskinen.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

the second the Oilers go on a bad losing streak with coaching legend Gerard Gallant, you'd be asking for him to be fired...I guarantee it

If he consistently makes questionable coaching decisions, yes I will. Stacking the top line reeks of desperation.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

We're in the sixth year of icing the two best players in the entire league, IDK why we shouldn't have high expectations.

it's almost as if you need to draft and develop supporting players in order to win, which takes time

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If he consistently makes questionable coaching decisions, yes I will. Stacking the top line reeks of desperation.

who's the best coach in the league in your opinion?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

who's the best coach in the league in your opinion?

Barry Trotz. He's transformed that joke of an Islanders team to a legitimate threat.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We're in the sixth year of icing the two best players in the entire league, IDK why we shouldn't have high expectations.

Look at the goaltending, look at the rest of the roster. The roster is full of holes. Tippett every night is getting appreciable gain out of players that arguably are not even NHL players. Haas wouldnt be playing anwyere else in the league. This was his only call. Same with Shore, he just said that yesterday in apresser, no other team called, came in as a tryout. Kahun had few other options other than going back to KHL. We have almost an entire taxi squad of players that wouldn't be in the NHL anywhere else.

We're contractually stuck with guys like Neal, at high cost, and he got Covid, and has been done ever since. It takes 6 or more months for some cases of Covid to resolve. Looks like Neal was hard hit. we've had almost a complete year with Kassian. We've had Klefbom out from seasons start, and possibly for ever. We had a hard work player like Colby die.

So much misfortune befalling the club on an already swiss cheese roster and its an immense accomplishment to just get this club in the playoffs. When Klef announced he was not going to play the year a lot of people thought we were done.

Then Holland trades for AA and Greene last season and neither are even here.

We have 3 quality vet forwards on teh whole club. you won't find one other roster like that. We have retreads like Chiasson with a regular job here yet he would pass waivers anytime. We have Khaira who any other club would have tossed by now, but Tippett somehow getting real game out of him.

Its been a pretty miraculous job of stitching performances together by Tippett.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Barry Trotz. He's transformed that joke of an Islanders team to a legitimate threat.

and his Caps teams were constant failures for years and years before he won

and didn't won much in Nashville either

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

and his Caps teams were constant failures for years and years before he won

and didn't won much in Nashville either

Yes they were, and the Caps went back to being the Caps the instant he left.

Nashville has its own set of issues that's finally seeing them at rock bottom this year.

A good coach can do wonders for a team. I don't think Tippett is some magical coaching savant.

Look at the goaltending, look at the rest of the roster. The roster is full of holes. Tippett every night is getting appreciable gain out of players that arguably are not even NHL players. Haas wouldnt be playing anwyere else in the league. This was his only call. Same with Shore, he just said that yesterday in apresser, no other team called, came in as a tryout. Kahun had few other options other than going back to KHL. We have almost an entire taxi squad of players that wouldn't be in the NHL anywhere else.

We're contractually stuck with guys like Neal, at high cost, and he got Covid, and has been done ever since. It takes 6 or more months for some cases of Covid to resolve. Looks like Neal was hard hit. we've had almost a complete year with Kassian. We've had Klefbom out from seasons start, and possibly for ever. We had a hard work player like Colby die.

So much misfortune befalling the club on an already swiss cheese roster and its an immense accomplishment to just get this club in the playoffs. When Klef announced he was not going to play the year a lot of people thought we were done.

Then Holland trades for AA and Greene last season and neither are even here.

We have 3 quality vet forwards on teh whole club. you won't find one other roster like that. We have retreads like Chiasson with a regular job here yet he would pass waivers anytime. We have Khaira who any other club would have tossed by now, but Tippett somehow getting real game out of him.

Its been a pretty miraculous job of stitching performances together by Tippett.

So what you're saying is that the GM....

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yes they were, and the Caps went back to being the Caps the instant he left.

Nashville has its own set of issues that's finally seeing them at rock bottom this year.

A good coach can do wonders for a team. I don't think Tippett is some magical coaching savant.

the Caps were a great team last year and at the top of their division this year without Trotz

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

the Caps were a great team last year and at the top of their division this year without Trotz

And guess which coach completely spanked them in the playoffs?

 

[CupofOil]

We're in the sixth year of icing the two best players in the entire league, IDK why we shouldn't have high expectations.

Look at the roster and you tell me. Do you see a roster that belongs in the elite? Is your expectation that 55-37 after finishing bottom 10 two seasons ago isn't good enough and is a fireable offense?

If you expected more than we've seen under Tippett thus far, I would say that you have unreasonable expectations.

BTW, the previous two coaches had these two great players and finished bottom 10 twice just for comparison and to illustrate that it takes a whole lot more than two players to win in this league.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Look at the roster and you tell me. Do you see a roster that belongs in the elite? Is your expectation that 55-37 after finishing bottom 10 two seasons ago isn't good enough and is a fireable offense?

If you expected more than we've seen under Tippett thus far, I would say that you have unreasonable expectations.

I see a roster that won't win a Cup, but shouldn't be first round fodder in this division. We're at worst the third best team here.

 

[Little Fury]

Look at the goaltending, look at the rest of the roster. The roster is full of holes. Tippett every night is getting appreciable gain out of players that arguably are not even NHL players. Haas wouldnt be playing anwyere else in the league. This was his only call. Same with Shore, he just said that yesterday in apresser, no other team called, came in as a tryout. Kahun had few other options other than going back to KHL. We have almost an entire taxi squad of players that wouldn't be in the NHL anywhere else.

We're contractually stuck with guys like Neal, at high cost, and he got Covid, and has been done ever since. It takes 6 or more months for some cases of Covid to resolve. Looks like Neal was hard hit. we've had almost a complete year with Kassian. We've had Klefbom out from seasons start, and possibly for ever. We had a hard work player like Colby die.

So much misfortune befalling the club on an already swiss cheese roster and its an immense accomplishment to just get this club in the playoffs. When Klef announced he was not going to play the year a lot of people thought we were done.

Then Holland trades for AA and Greene last season and neither are even here.

We have 3 quality vet forwards on teh whole club. you won't find one other roster like that. We have retreads like Chiasson with a regular job here yet he would pass waivers anytime. We have Khaira who any other club would have tossed by now, but Tippett somehow getting real game out of him.

Its been a pretty miraculous job of stitching performances together by Tippett.

I agree the roster has holes, but we also have two generational talents up front, which is an advantage few coaches enjoy and goes along way to covering up those holes (except maybe in net). And almost every team has a roster that's full of retreads and chancer son the bottom end.

Now I generally think that the impact of coaching is extremely difficult to measure and that most NHL coaches are more or less interchangeable. Tippett doesn't seem to be particularly exceptional at line building or in-game management, which is essentially all we can really evaluate from the outside. But I agree the roster is the biggest issue here.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And guess which coach completely spanked them in the playoffs?

who's saying Trotz isn't a great coach?

you seem to think Trotz took over one of the worst teams in the league and turned them into a contender overnight...the Isles made the playoffs 3 times since 2012-13 including 3 straight 40+ win seasons
they already had a roster of decent players, even without Tavares

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

who's saying Trotz isn't a great coach?

you seem to think Trotz took over one of the worst teams in the league and turned them into a contender overnight...the Isles made the playoffs 3 times since 2012-13 including 3 straight 40+ win seasons
they already had a roster of decent players, even without Tavares

The Isles were certainly a laughingstock even when they were making the playoffs. They're now tied for the most points in the league in a very heavy division.

The Caps haven't even won a round since Trotz left. They're back to being who they always were.

Put Trotz here and we're definitely the second best team in the division.

Sorry, I just don't see it with Tippett. He makes too many questionable roster decisions and all our promising D prospects are currently floundering.