Time to sell-off Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux to the highest bidder

[FLYguy3911]

Does anyone really think had they kept Morin and sent Hagg back to the AHL, this season would have turned out any different?

This season? No. Future seasons? Maybe. At this point I don't think Sam is some grand superior prospect, but I do think he is better and I have more confidence in him developing and at least becoming a competent support guy. Maybe it's the demeanor. Morin is ultra aggressive and Hagg is extremely passive in nature. I guess I can live with a young player making aggressive mistakes that can be ironed out over time. Both guys are always going to be somewhat dependent on their partner to drive the play.

Hagg is:

2nd in the league in hits for Dmen
6th in the league in +/- for Dmen

Would we have been happy with that if someone had said that's how his season would start out with?

Happy for the team yeah. I would be happy for Hagg too if it didn't come because of a completely unsustainable PDO. Hagg isn't the reason the Flyers are where they are in the standings, but he's also not a guy that is going to help the team get out from where they are. As for him individually, he hasn't made me change my mind that he's anything more than a 5/6/7 kind of guy. You cannot get outshot as bad as he does and expect to be a top 4 staple on a good team. Unfortunately I don't think the organization shares the same opinion. That icing on Saturday was so egregious and it was a microcosm of his career. Time and space and just flings it with no regard. At least Manning was trying to make a play and you could maybe fault the forward for not being in position.

 

[Curufinwe]

Oh it was Hagg who iced that one? Unforced icings were something I noticed in the Phantoms games I watched last year.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Hagg is:

2nd in the league in hits for Dmen
6th in the league in +/- for Dmen

Would we have been happy with that if someone had said that's how his season would start out with?

Why should anyone care about 2 cherry picked meaningless stats?

 

[Curufinwe]

Tripod's just pointing out some positives to Hagg's season. It's not all negative.

 

[deadhead]

I would make Ghost - Hagg my third line at ES and give them easy matchups.
Provorov - MacDonald
Sanheim - Gudas
as the top 4 this year

Provorov - Myers
Sanheim - Gudas
as the top four next year.

 

[FLYguy3911]

With the way his year is going, I'm not even confident in Myers being on the team let alone on the 1st pair.

 

[Tripod]

Why should anyone care about 2 cherry picked meaningless stats?

They are not meaningless.

+/- gets a bad rap but if EVERYONE on our team was +10, we would win a lot more games than we lose.

And hits...well we need some physical play from our defense to complement the skill guys. So he is doing that.

All I was saying is that in the summer, if someone had said Hagg will play the minutes he has and have those 2 stats, we likely would have thought that would be great. Most people's biggest issue with Hagg is that it has come with Morin in the AHL...when Morin is seen as the better player.

It will be interesting to see how his numbers change as his PDO changes and normalizes.

 

[Tripod]

I would make Ghost - Hagg my third line at ES and give them easy matchups.
Provorov - MacDonald
Sanheim - Gudas
as the top 4 this year

Provorov - Myers
Sanheim - Gudas
as the top four next year.

So we just have Morin as the #7 Dman?

Myers won't start on the Flyers next year....that spot will be AMac's sadly.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

It's official. Ghost has become the new Jeff Carter, the slagging boy who receives the dose of irrationality that Flyers fans apparently HAVE to dispense.

Once he is gone or makes such feelings untenable someone else will take over the title.

Imagine if he was on another team at damn near PPG..

 

[deadhead]

I don't put much stock in +/- , E +/- is more informative, as is scoring changes for and against, and especially high danger scoring chances (HDSC).
Hagg and Ghost are our worst defensemen at ES.

The same people who castigate Hagg let Ghost off the hook even though his HDSC net percentage is just as bad (i.e. he gives up far more with bad decisions and defense than he makes with his offensive skills).

And watching both of them, it's not an accident, Ghost makes numerous mindfart bad passes and loses the puck with no help behind him, Hagg struggles handling and clearing the puck out of the D-zone under pressure. The difference is that one is a rookie, the other a 3rd year player who is almost 4 years older.

Ghost however has value on the PP that Hagg can't provide, but at ES both players' minutes should be minimized.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Our transition into the offensive zone is far, far better with Ghost on the ice rather than Hagg. There are things Ghost can do that our other dmen cannot.

But he's the new Jeff Carter now that Couts can't be, so he will be subjected to heavily distorted usage of cherry picked stats and outright lies to criticize him.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Ever think Ghost's SCF% stinks because his most common partner is Hagg? Provorov's stinks too. His 2nd most common partner is Manning. Another stalwart.

And you're only looking at a ratio stat from one end of the rink. You can be the best in zone defender in the world, but if you spend most of your time in your own zone, you will lose the scoring chance battle. Hagg isn't on the ice for that many scoring chances against. It's more that he's not on the ice for many when his team has the puck. That's the problem. And the scary part is he spends about 35% of his shifts with one of the best lines in hockey. Imagine what his numbers would look like if he was deployed like Gudas or Sanheim? Think about how many more chances the top line could generate with another defenseman playing those minutes?

 

[Lindberg]

With the way his year is going, I'm not even confident in Myers being on the team let alone on the 1st pair.

I love how the kid is in the AHL this year and automatically a top pair next year in the NHL. Talk about not being realistic.

 

[Lindberg]

Our transition into the offensive zone is far, far better with Ghost on the ice rather than Hagg. There are things Ghost can do that our other dmen cannot.

But he's the new Jeff Carter now that Couts can't be, so he will be subjected to heavily distorted usage of cherry picked stats and outright lies to criticize him.

Ghost is by far the best passer on the defense. It amazes me how often the puck ends up on someone's tape. How about lets change coaches before trading/thinking too much into it.

 

[Striiker]

Ghost is so under-appreciated.

 

[ItMe]

Moving these 3 should have been done 2 years ago. Hextall should have went full rebuild at that point.

Simmons can still be easily moved with a great return. Giroux could maybe be moved at the deadline but due to his cap, that is highly unlikely and you wouldn't get any bang for the buck. We are stuck with Voracek for the foreseeable future. Glad he is having a bounce back season and hopefully that sticks but that contract is a non-mover.

 

[deadhead]

Ghost is so over-rated.
It's like the guard who makes great dunks in basketball but has no clue when it comes to playing defense.
Most of Ghost's value comes from the PP, at ES he is undersized (and it frequently shows) and makes too many mistakes.

He's good, but not nearly as good as some would have you believe.
I predict by next season Sanheim will be head and shoulders above him.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Ghost is so over-rated.

You are hallucinating again. Grab hold of the bannister and sit down - you are in no condition to be going up or down stairs right now.

 

[Striiker]

They are not meaningless.

+/- gets a bad rap but if EVERYONE on our team was +10, we would win a lot more games than we lose.

And hits...well we need some physical play from our defense to complement the skill guys. So he is doing that.

All I was saying is that in the summer, if someone had said Hagg will play the minutes he has and have those 2 stats, we likely would have thought that would be great. Most people's biggest issue with Hagg is that it has come with Morin in the AHL...when Morin is seen as the better player.

It will be interesting to see how his numbers change as his PDO changes and normalizes.

That's why I call it meaningless, it isn't (or at least shouldn't be) an individual player stat.

If a statistic can go against a guy, who has done absolutely zero wrong, for simply being on the ice when someone else f***s up, then how do you know when it's a deserved or an underserved minus?

 

[RANKKA]

Who is Simmons and does he play in this team?

 

[Striiker]

Ghost is so over-rated.
It's like the guard who makes great dunks in basketball but has no clue when it comes to playing defense.
Most of Ghost's value comes from the PP, at ES he is undersized (and it frequently shows) and makes too many mistakes.

He's good, but not nearly as good as some would have you believe.
I predict by next season Sanheim will be head and shoulders above him.

That's simply not true.

You just downplay his contributions, exaggerate his mistakes, and ignore the ones made by other players who have a different reputation. Every player f***s up many times per game, even someone like Provorov. But I don't hear a peep when that happens.

Ghost is so much better defensively than you try to make it seem. I have no idea what caused your agenda against him but you should let it go and realize how lucky we are to have him.

 

[BernieParent]

So maybe like

Simmonds + Hagg + 4th round pick

McDavid + 1st round pick (top 10 protected)

There you go throwing around 4th round picks like Holmgren.

 

[Striiker]

There you go throwing around 4th round picks like Holmgren.

I don't know man... I hate to lose it but I think McDavid has a chance to be a decent role player here. Kind of like Gostisbehere.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ghost is so under-appreciated.

As was predicted in his rookie year. People cannot mentally process the notion that offensive dmen aren't automatically detrimental to their teams, nor that in the current era they are very beneficial.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ghost is so over-rated.
It's like the guard who makes great dunks in basketball but has no clue when it comes to playing defense.
Most of Ghost's value comes from the PP, at ES he is undersized (and it frequently shows) and makes too many mistakes.

He's good, but not nearly as good as some would have you believe.
I predict by next season Sanheim will be head and shoulders above him.

He is number 53, not 23. That should help.