Post-Game Talk: Time to panic? Blues coast over Leafs.

[Rayban*]

There are not many fanbases that are as passionate and hungry as Leaf fans, especially in hockey. There are plenty of fanbases that are, however. I'm not going to name them all but that is the reality.

You're damn right a lot of us are proud. Most here didn't realistically think that this team would be anywhere near a playoff spot this year but they are and they aren't even close to being out of it. That's something to be proud of when you consider they were LAST place, just one season ago. It's only going to get better and if you can't see that, then I'm afraid you're just too negative and like to write your own little narrative. You can keep posting about how awful the team is but they WILL get better and when they do, I'm afraid that you will probably double down on your negativity to protect your ego. Once they do, you will probably just go away. If not, don't worry, I'll be here to remind you how wrong you were.

Nobody is forcing you to buy tickets (if somebody is and you feel threatened say "uncle" and we'll get you some help), so that is a useless moan, IMO. Stop supporting the team if you don't like it. I haven't paid for a ticket since the Ottawa playoff series and most of those were in Ottawa. You can still support them and not spend a penny. There is also nothing wrong with criticizing the team but I'm afraid, that's all you do and you're nowhere to be found when they are winning. It's OK to be wrong, we all are sometimes.

I always post when we win and I have no intention of boycotting games lol, they're probably better in Ottawa than toronto.

I'd love for them to tear it up and admit I'm wrong. I don't think it will happen. I think anybody who thinks the type of losses we're suffering will help build towards future success is missing the psychological aspect of the sport.

They're going to face the same players year after year and if they break this year they're going to hear about it next year, and if they break next year they're going to be reminded of what losers they are before every faceoff the year after that.

Listen to real winners at the professional level talk and there are no excuses for losing. Especially choking away leads constantly.

 

[WilliamNylander]

If there's one player we go and get I hope it's Landeskog, and not Shattenkirk.

Yes our D is garbage but we're sorely missing a big winger who doesn't disappear in physical games. Not gonna win when only Nylander Marner and Soshnikov show up against a team like STL.

 

[ULF_55]

I always post when we win and I have no intention of boycotting games lol, they're probably better in Ottawa than toronto.

I'd love for them to tear it up and admit I'm wrong. I don't think it will happen. I think anybody who thinks the type of losses we're suffering will help build towards future success is missing the psychological aspect of the sport.

They're going to face the same players year after year and if they break this year they're going to hear about it next year, and if they break next year they're going to be reminded of what losers they are before every faceoff the year after that.

Listen to real winners at the professional level talk and there are no excuses for losing. Especially choking away leads constantly.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Hyman, Brown, Soshnikov, Zaitsev will not be rookies next year, and will have experience and some will actually move out of their teenager status.

It's very easy to comprehend how old they are and how much experience they have and to understand that a veteran team that went to the conference final is going to have an edge up on a 30th. place team with so many rookies in the line up.

What type of individual would not understand such easy to digest facts?

 

[PromisedLand]

On our team you kind have to, half the team is rookies (ok it's really a quarter but still)

The kids are going to have ups and downs and anyone who did not expect that needs to take their rose colored glasses off. They get all the credit when we win usually so it has to go both ways.

I am fine with it but lets not just hold the rookies accountable is all I am saying especially when it is the first year where rookies look to the vets to know how to do things right.

bozak and jvr set bad example for the rookies on how to handle pressure and how to response when the chips are down.

also rookies are still learning. NHL is the toughest league of any sport in the world. Its physical and fast paced. Rookies will take their time.

The question is when the heck are the vets on this team going to lead by example: Bozak, JVR, Kadri, Gards, on how to respond to adversity.

Their once ice play and off-ice behavior (from what I see in the post game interviews) is: "we are playing fine, we just have to do it right". A good vet holds everyone accountable starting with himself first and does it right off the ice and on the ice and rookies follow their lead.

When the chips are down players look up to the leader(s) in the team and if the leader(s) rises to the occasion they lift the entire team.

I do not expect the rookies in their first year to do that. Toews and Crosby are exceptions I would say. Even Crosby had decent vets on the team when he entered the league with Mario providing guidance.

Who do we have on this team? Shanny will have to get fully involved in lifting the team and we do not want the president of the club doing that as it downplays the coach's authority.

Leafs need a good leadership and bozak, komarov, hunwick (all wear A) and JVR are not the answer.

 

[ULF_55]

bozak and jvr set bad example for the rookies on how to handle pressure and how to response when the chips are down.

Leafs need a good leadership and bozak, komarov, hunwick (all wear A) and JVR are not the answer.

And yet last night the Bozak, van Riemsdyk, Marner trio were the only forwards to win the night, each ending up +1, while the defensive stalwarts Kadri, Komarov and Nylander all ended up -2.

I agree though, they don't have many veteran leaders who can take control of the situation, and think either they have to trade for one, or wait for their Captain Serious to get a couple years under his belt.

 

[Mess]

Leafs have look like a very ordinary team these last 3 losses as the "play the kids" momentum seems to be slowing down.

Those new lines that started the game looked dreadful on the ice, no wonder Babs ended that experiment early.

While I fully expected a 2nd half hiccup or two along the way, hopefully the Leafs can right the ship soon as these games in hand losses is leveling the playoff competition surface.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I always post when we win and I have no intention of boycotting games lol, they're probably better in Ottawa than toronto.

I'd love for them to tear it up and admit I'm wrong. I don't think it will happen. I think anybody who thinks the type of losses we're suffering will help build towards future success is missing the psychological aspect of the sport.

They're going to face the same players year after year and if they break this year they're going to hear about it next year, and if they break next year they're going to be reminded of what losers they are before every faceoff the year after that.

Listen to real winners at the professional level talk and there are no excuses for losing. Especially choking away leads constantly.

Almost every great team in the history of the sport went through a period where as they were building their championship core there were some bad losses that cause huge evaluation of that core.

How we handle those losses and come back from them will determine our future. If these kids were mentally weak do you really think they'd be thriving as rookies in probably the biggest fish bowl in pro hockey if not pro sports?

Inconsistency is the sign of a young team. Consistency over time is how we will judge their growth.

Having the management and coaching we do means that mentally our players, especially those in the 19-21 or so age range are not going to care about 1967, 2004, 2013 or any other random memory of the past people might bring up to them. None of them were here. Why should they care? I really don't think they will.

Every winner at the pro level was once a loser. Probably because of youth and inexperience. But it happened. And if they came in as winners, they still experiences bouts of rough losses. Part of being a professional.

Our group beat St. Louis twice last year. This year we played them at a good time for them with the new coach and a new system and people want to, as usual, make way more out of it then they should.

Lets, perhaps, wait a week and see how our youth bounces back at home vs Dallas and St. Louis. The NHL schedule makers have done us a favor and allowed us a quick shot at retribution.

But what fun is there in waiting 7 days when we can trash an entire rebuild while evaluating the teams mental toughness the day after a 2nd bad loss when waiting a week might prove that things are not bad and our young players are not mentally weak 40 some games into their NHL careers.

 

[PromisedLand]

Absolutely great post, Totti..!! Applause..

That's almost exactly how I feel about this season.. We are way ahead of schedule.. and "some of" the instant generation needs to stop thinking, wishing for, and... expecting.. "instant results"... Real life doesn't work that way.. Only technology does..

Good things take time... and I am not taking the whole past since '67 as one large "we've been waiting" segment..
The "New Breed" started when Shanny came in here.. and it takes time to weed away bad players.., bad contracts.. and mistakes of others,
while also adding a bunch of rookies in, in the same seasons.. I'm still amazed at how we lost a $10 million dollar a season salary, which would have been a dead anchor with previous Managements here.. What Lou, Dubas, Hunter, Shanny, Babcock and everyone else involved has already accomplised in just the "start" of our rebuild, is more than just commendable..

By the end of next season, I bet we all start to see a team closer to being a contender..,
but right now.., we should all be VERY happy, with how far we have come in just one season..
I've watched since the very early 60's..., so don't complain about waiting a long time for another cup..
This is the 1st time I've seen positive changes in almost two decades.. and they WILL make a difference for our future..

GOOD TIMES AHEAD..!!

-----------------------

Toronto Maple Leafs vs St. Louis Blues - February 2, 2017 - Game Highlights



Maple Leafs Post-Game: Mike Babcock - February 2, 2017



More post-game interviews: Rielly; Marner & Andersen
---> http://www.youtube.com/user/torontomapleleafs/videos​

An extremely important point. Most of Gen Y have a sense of entitlement and look for instant gratification; for them - "patience" is only a word in a dictionary not in deed/actions.

Leafs are doing well I have no concerns. Playoffs or no playoffs. They want the new kids to perform like superstars.

Its like hiring a new grad and then expect them to be CEO of a firm that year. Experience matters, leadership matters and mentoring matters!!!

If we make playoffs this season great; if we don't - no problem! Leafs are trending in the right direction.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Leafs have look like a very ordinary team these last 3 losses as the "play the kids" momentum seems to be slowing down.

Those new lines that started the game looked dreadful on the ice, no wonder Babs ended that experiment early.

While I fully expected a 2nd half hiccup or two along the way, hopefully the Leafs can right the ship soon as these games in hand losses is leveling the playoff competition surface.

This was bound to happen eventually. Kids are going to hit a wall, especially once who have never played more then 40 or 50 games at a pro level before.

We had an advantage due to the bye week and schedule layout early on compared to what we see the rest of the way. That was a part of Anderson playing so well and the team looking good. They played 5 and 6 less games over the same amount of time as some of the competition.

As that balances out we can't expect Anderson to not wear down behind that defence.

But I also have been expecting it. And not "because this is Toronto and the 18 wheelers fall off cliffs in February" like some will preach. Our best players are very young and are going to have a tough time with 35 games in 69 days. Especially 6 in 9 at the end.

I also have no issues with another top 10 pick as that's exactly what i've been expecting this entire time.

 

[Jack Bauer]

An extremely important point. Most of Gen Y have a sense of entitlement and look for instant gratification; for them - "patience" is only a word in a dictionary not in deed/actions.

Leafs are doing well I have no concerns. Playoffs or no playoffs. They want the new kids to perform like superstars.

Its like hiring a new grad and then expect them to be CEO of a firm that year. Experience matters, leadership matters and mentoring matters!!!

If we make playoffs this season great; if we don't - no problem! Leafs are trending in the right direction.

Yeah I guess being in my early-mid 30's and having lived through the 90's and early 00 teams allows me a different perspective to look bigger picture compared to those who only know a post 05 lockout hockey world.

This isn't a playoffs or bust team. This isn't a "acquire Yannick Perrault for a 2nd round pick" territory. This is still a rebuild with big pieces needed. And there's tons of time to do it.

Matthews is 19. Marner is 19. There is no rush.

 

[PromisedLand]

And yet last night the Bozak, van Riemsdyk, Marner trio were the only forwards to win the night, each ending up +1, while the defensive stalwarts Kadri, Komarov and Nylander all ended up -2.

I agree though, they don't have many veteran leaders who can take control of the situation, and think either they have to trade for one, or wait for their Captain Serious to get a couple years under his belt.

You must add context when making such posts. Bozak and JVR are the MOST sheltered line. While Matthews and Kadri take the toughest match ups.

It should be Kadri and Bozak who should be taking toughest match ups not the rookies. It is a SHAME that Bozak and JVR still need to be sheltered after having 6+ NHL seasons under their belt.

Bozak and JVR are the first ones to give up when the chips are down; have you seen them play? Whenever the Leafs are chasing the game that line doesn't do anything the spark comes from Kadri line, Matthews line or the 4th line.

This team requires good leadership and Bozak/JVR are not the answer. They have a loser mentality, they float on the ice and are passing on the bad habits to the rookies.

bozak and jvr should not be part of the team IMO they should be far very far away from the rookies.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs have look like a very ordinary team these last 3 losses as the "play the kids" momentum seems to be slowing down.

Those new lines that started the game looked dreadful on the ice, no wonder Babs ended that experiment early.

While I fully expected a 2nd half hiccup or two along the way, hopefully the Leafs can right the ship soon as these games in hand losses is leveling the playoff competition surface.

The eyeball test saw this coming for a few weeks now.

Even before these losses they didn't look like the team that was firing on all cylinders.

It has been mentioned for months, that their kids may not be able to maintain their peak performance for 82 games.

I still expect they will be competing for a playoffs spot, said that before the season started, and believe that still. You don't add all this additional talent and end up 30th. overall.

I won't be surprised if they:
-miss the playoffs
-make the playoffs

 

[ACC1224]

An extremely important point. Most of Gen Y have a sense of entitlement and look for instant gratification; for them - "patience" is only a word in a dictionary not in deed/actions.

Leafs are doing well I have no concerns. Playoffs or no playoffs. They want the new kids to perform like superstars.

Its like hiring a new grad and then expect them to be CEO of a firm that year. Experience matters, leadership matters and mentoring matters!!!

If we make playoffs this season great; if we don't - no problem! Leafs are trending in the right direction.

I don't think they will become impatient although gauranteed some fans will.

 

[ULF_55]

You must add context when making such posts. Bozak and JVR are the MOST sheltered line. While Matthews and Kadri take the toughest match ups.

It should be Kadri and Bozak who should be taking toughest match ups not the rookies. It is a SHAME that Bozak and JVR still need to be sheltered after having 6+ NHL seasons under their belt.

Bozak and JVR are the first ones to give up when the chips are down; have you seen them play? Whenever the Leafs are chasing the game that line doesn't do anything the spark comes from Kadri line, Matthews line or the 4th line.

This team requires good leadership and Bozak/JVR are not the answer. They have a loser mentality, they float on the ice and are passing on the bad habits to the rookies.

bozak and jvr should not be part of the team IMO they should be far very far away from the rookies.

I take it you didn't suffer through last night's game then.

Good for you.

 

[The Examiner]

I always post when we win and I have no intention of boycotting games lol, they're probably better in Ottawa than toronto.

I'd love for them to tear it up and admit I'm wrong. I don't think it will happen. I think anybody who thinks the type of losses we're suffering will help build towards future success is missing the psychological aspect of the sport.

They're going to face the same players year after year and if they break this year they're going to hear about it next year, and if they break next year they're going to be reminded of what losers they are before every faceoff the year after that.

Listen to real winners at the professional level talk and there are no excuses for losing. Especially choking away leads constantly.

I've heard Quenneville talk and he said this team reminds him of the Blackhawks before they became the team they are now. The same team who failed to make the playoffs in Toews and Kane's first season. A team with a similar record to this Leaf team. A team that vastly improved the next season and then went on to win the cup the season after. Quenneville is a real winner, at a professional level. I heard him talk and that's what he said.

Also, nobody said this team were "real winners" (whatever that means), in fact, as I stated plenty of times already, it was not expected that they would be winners at all this year. They have exceeded expectations and,

"THERE WILL BE PAIN",

applies here. It has nothing to do with being a winner. That is irrelevant at this point. Temper your expectations.

Blowing leads can have a positive effect or negative one. It all depends on how the players handle it. If they can't, then they weren't any good to begin with. You have no reason to believe this will be the case with this bunch, except for negative feelings and a past you don't want to let go of. Unfortunately, the team is forced to play with 3, #6/7 defenceman, every night as well as inexperienced rookies. That's going to be a bad time, more often than not. Unless you think young players never improve, you shouldn't think it's all that worrying.

They team has also held on to many leads, far more than they've given up. Yet, you don't mention that because it doesn't feed your negativity, adequately enough.

Also, stop saying you post when they win because you really don't. In fact, you've posted more in this recent loss than you have in all the winning threads, combined. You're negative and need to reinforce your opinion that Babcock is terrible. I don't understand how you have such little self awareness, especially when it's so easy to prove. It's disingenuous and it's hard to converse with somebody who is so dishonest.

 

[hockeyes]

It's been 7 poor periods after coming off an extended stretch where they played mostly very well, I'm not too concerned yet.

If they can't up their intensity for Saturday in a very important game then I'll start to be concerned.

 

[The Examiner]

The eyeball test saw this coming for a few weeks now.

Even before these losses they didn't look like the team that was firing on all cylinders.

It has been mentioned for months, that their kids may not be able to maintain their peak performance for 82 games.

I still expect they will be competing for a playoffs spot, said that before the season started, and believe that still. You don't add all this additional talent and end up 30th. overall.

I won't be surprised if they:
-miss the playoffs
-make the playoffs

Add to that, the fact that they will be basically playing every second day, it could very well be a very bad time. Hopefully not but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yeah I guess being in my early-mid 30's and having lived through the 90's and early 00 teams allows me a different perspective to look bigger picture compared to those who only know a post 05 lockout hockey world.

This isn't a playoffs or bust team. This isn't a "acquire Yannick Perrault for a 2nd round pick" territory. This is still a rebuild with big pieces needed. And there's tons of time to do it.

Matthews is 19. Marner is 19. There is no rush.

Precisely!!!

As seer correctly pointed out the past mistakes of the Burke/Nonis era are still impacting the current leafs.

Next season all the rookies would have 1 year of experience under their belt. I am desperately hoping we stay the course at the TDL.

Either we sell: Bozak, JVR, Hunwick,

or

just stay put.

Stay the course..... Leafs are learning, they are trending in the right direction; they will only be stronger for it.

Losers like Bozak, JVR will be dealt. Borderline losers like Kadri and Gardiner will either change their on-ice game and off-ice behaviours (eat right, sleep right, train right) or they will be dealt as well.

 

[Marner]

such an ugly game

 

[PromisedLand]

I take it you didn't suffer through last night's game then.

Good for you.

No. except for bozak and jvr on the roster I have no beef with the leafs.

Expecting a team full of rookies to take the toughest match ups, make playoffs and may be a cup is stupid while joke of vets like bozak and jvr get sheltered and coast on ice.

Playoffs or no playoffs I have no problem because I believe Leafs are trending in the right direction.

A lot of positives to look at and very little negatives.

Positives:
Nylander, Matthews, Marner

- all rookies of the month

- Workhorses like Brown, Hyman and Sosh learning and developing in NHL

- Zaitsev, Carrick, Marincin all growing and learning

- Kadri taking the toughest match ups is closing in on 20 goals while shutting oppositions' top lines most of the games and is just -6 till date.

- Gardiner playing well most of the season so far and is +11

- Prospects developing in AHL (Kappy, Leipsic, Neilson, GOAT, Bibeau, etc....)

- Cap is getting managed well (Robidas, Lupul, Horton) on LTIR

- 7 mil cap relief from Phaneuf an aging D-man

- Laich, Michalek and Greening are all off the cap end of season that is around 8 million gain in cap space

- Team finished 30th overall last season; is fighting for playoff spot exceeding all expectations with majority of the roster filled with rookies

Negatives:

- Bozak and JVR both get sheltered minutes and easiest match ups still manage to be in the minus side of things and still -3 and -4 respectively


- No decent veteran leadership on the team



Positives far outweigh the negatives on the team. Leafs are doing brilliantly WELL!!!

Playoffs or No Playoffs. Leafs are trending in the right direction!!!

 

[Mugzy97]

Holy overreaction batman...

So a little about me, I've been coaching for close to 30 years now, back when the NCCP had 4 tiers I was one of the first people in New Brunswick to get my NCCP level 3's. I'm guessing you didn't even know there is a program for coaching certification? Oh BTW... my teams have won multiple provincial championships. So yeah I got a teensy bit experience in coaching kids.

You don't need to be a PhD to understand that young people tend to lack life experience and coping tools, the importance of putting them in a positive mindset cannot be understated. If you tell a kid that the challenge is impossible, 99 times out of 100 they believe what you say because you are an authority figure, and then proceed to fail 99 times out of 100. There is a reason why vets are coveted for the playoff push...its that whole life experience thing gives you coping skills thing ... Babcock although a future HOF coach, is human like any of us, he is not infallible, he puts on his pants one leg at a time... he made a mistake building up the last 30 games or so as this scary big impossible challenge.

Easy on the childish name calling OK? Lets try to pretend we are BOTH able to have adult conversations,OK?

I don't care how many certifications you have, you don't know more than Babcock does about coaching. He never said anything was impossible, he prepared them for the challenge of a full season grind. The name calling part wasn't directed at you alone, but all of the people coming in here every time we lose and acting like the walls are caving in and thinking they could do a better job with this team.

 

[weems]

Brown 1 assist in his last 8 games with 10 SOG

He`s a smart player who works hard but his skating needs to improve if he`s going to become a consistent offensive threat in the NHL. Lots of time to get stronger and improve his first few steps.

 

[Daisy Jane]

This was bound to happen eventually. Kids are going to hit a wall, especially once who have never played more then 40 or 50 games at a pro level before.

We had an advantage due to the bye week and schedule layout early on compared to what we see the rest of the way. That was a part of Anderson playing so well and the team looking good. They played 5 and 6 less games over the same amount of time as some of the competition.

As that balances out we can't expect Anderson to not wear down behind that defence.

But I also have been expecting it. And not "because this is Toronto and the 18 wheelers fall off cliffs in February" like some will preach. Our best players are very young and are going to have a tough time with 35 games in 69 days. Especially 6 in 9 at the end.

I also have no issues with another top 10 pick as that's exactly what i've been expecting this entire time.

and there it is. lol those who are completely mellow are the ones who pretty much predicted that the Leafs would more than likely not make the playoffs. (yes, i will acknowledge that on points percentage, and everything - they are right there, and they could shake off this slide, and make a push for it. and i TRULY hope they do. i hope they show that they are capable of doing many awesome things, and if they make the playoffs this year, it's great because they get to learn that right away instead of adjusting for that next year).

but if you consider everything that Matthews had to do last year + this year, and still having to add what? 33 more games to his schedule (same with Mitch, and to a lesser extent Nylander, Sosh, Hyman, Brown because they at least had the AHL/NHL prep last season). Zaitzev is still adapting to NHL sped/pace. This was GOING to happen. the question is - how long do they remain mired in it.

Yes, expectations changes, but you shouldn't be surprised if they stumble and struggle now.

 

[thewave]

I think the kids peaked early and are just in a skid. They'll probably ly pull out by TDL but PO will be in question and that's where I hope to heck we do not become buyers. Anything but trying to cheat the rebuild.

If we get a sweetheart deal they can do that. I mean obviously if you given that you take it.

 

[Kelly]

Matthews line has dryed up. Really hope Babs puts Willy back on that line.