Confirmed with Link: Three-year, entry-level contract for Filip Mesar

[Estimated_Prophet]

why would we send any prospect to the AHL for 4-5 years when waivers would put an end to that for the top ones after 3 years. There's little harm in taking things slow with young inexperienced players especially ones that play in a weak pro league where the jump to the NHL would be big. More skilled then Koivu though? I call bull shit unless you don't know how good Koivu was before the knee injury or Mesar is highly skilled.

Yeah Koivu was absolutely electric before the knee injuries and was at the top of the scoring race when he got hurt. I believe it was the first season in the Bell Centre and he had fans on the edge of their seats every time he got on the ice. He was so fast and agile with incredible lower body strength. His IQ, vision and creativity made great use of his athleticism and it was such a sick feeling to see him go down and then get the news about the severity of the injury. Post injury Saku was much more conservative and not nearly as dynamic as he was before he got hurt.

So yes, Mesar looks good but I agree that calling him more skilled than Koivu is a reach that any scout who saw pre-injury Koivu would not agree with.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

There's a ton of top prospects we ruined by letting them rot in the minors for too long. Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Poehling, Juulsen, Scherbak, Chipchura, . The only players that really benefited from going down are Pacioretty and maybe Plekanec, Pacioretty though hes the one who asked for more time in the AHL.

As for Koivu he was my favourite player for a very long time, he went to finland two years to complete his military service, he was ready for the pros at 18. Yes Koivu was very talented but Mesar does things a bit differently with more finesse and more skills besides that they're very similar in their attitude and in their compete level.

But we still need to see how both Slaf and Mesar will play during the pre-season and in some of the NHL games. Im not gonna sit here defending a position prior seing them againts NHL players.

All im saying so far is that Mesar looks like the real deal and we should give him the chance to prove himself and give him the opportunity to play in the NHL if we think he can follow the pace and not just send him in the minors "just because"

I think the odds of Mesar making the team are slim to none. I am fine with him in Kitchener or even Laval but there is no need to rush him and no need to unnecessarily burn a year of his ELC.

I also do not agree that we ruined all of the above prospects by leaving them in the minors....they were there for extended stays because most of them were poor draft picks and just sucked. Try talking to players, agents, scouts and NHL management and watch them roll their eyes at the fan created narrative of organizations ruining players. The only cases are where real abuse takes place other than that a true NHL level player will figure it out eventually even if an organization was holding them back. Self confidence, work ethic,resiliency and determination are qualities that an organization should be looking for just as much as physical talent. This is why Shane Wright slipped, he wasn't able to convince teams that he possessed enough of these traits. If a player can be broken so easily by poor management, they just aren't cut out to play in the NHL. Development is still very important as it will help to expedite a players growth but you can't develop good players from bad picks and you can't permanently ruin good players with poor management.....these are myths.

 

[montreal]

There's a ton of top prospects we ruined by letting them rot in the minors for too long. Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Poehling, Juulsen, Scherbak, Chipchura, . The only players that really benefited from going down are Pacioretty and maybe Plekanec, Pacioretty though hes the one who asked for more time in the AHL.

As for Koivu he was my favourite player for a very long time, he went to finland two years to complete his military service, he was ready for the pros at 18. Yes Koivu was very talented but Mesar does things a bit differently with more finesse and more skills besides that they're very similar in their attitude and in their compete level.

But we still need to see how both Slaf and Mesar will play during the pre-season and in some of the NHL games. Im not gonna sit here defending a position prior seing them againts NHL players.

All im saying so far is that Mesar looks like the real deal and we should give him the chance to prove himself and give him the opportunity to play in the NHL if we think he can follow the pace and not just send him in the minors "just because"

Fischer was never in the AHL, assuming you are talking about David Fischer and not some random prospect from another team.

The rest of the players you listed outside of Chipchura who was 100% not the fault of spending too much time in the AHL, it was the injuries that impacted his speed/skating and he still was a solid 4th line center, I would say the rest were actually rushed to the NHL, so not sure how anyone could think they spent too much time in the AHL.

As for Koivu at 18 he had 10 pts in 46 games in Liiga, not sure how in the world that means he was ready for the NHL.

 

[Bombshell11]

I think the odds of Mesar making the team are slim to none. I am fine with him in Kitchener or even Laval but there is no need to rush him and no need to unnecessarily burn a year of his ELC.

I also do not agree that we ruined all of the above prospects by leaving them in the minors....they were there for extended stays because most of them were poor draft picks and just sucked. Try talking to players, agents, scouts and NHL management and watch them roll their eyes at the fan created narrative of organizations ruining players. The only cases are where real abuse takes place other than that a true NHL level player will figure it out eventually even if an organization was holding them back. Self confidence, work ethic,resiliency and determination are qualities that an organization should be looking for just as much as physical talent. This is why Shane Wright slipped, he wasn't able to convince teams that he possessed enough of these traits. If a player can be broken so easily by poor management, they just aren't cut out to play in the NHL. Development is still very important as it will help to expedite a players growth but you can't develop good players from bad picks and you can't permanently ruin good players with poor management.....these are myths.

Era aside, Mesar is more skilled and more agile. Not sure if you have seen his highlights but i feel like alot of people are basing their predictions by looking at the draft positions. Mesar is the real deal and has played againts men. I know its not a popular opinion because Slaf is the no1 draft so he'll get priority but Mesar is definitly a much better hockey player.

As for the players we burned, no alot of those players played almost a full year before they completely disappeared.

Chipchura for example was a player we thought almost made it but no the team sent him down , they never respected him and he went on to have a decent career of 400+ NHL games. Beaulieu played like 3 full seasons, at some point he was sent down 3-4 times in a spam of 2 days?

Look its alot easier to throw the blame at the players but the truth is that montreal doesnt know how to develop players. It cant always be the players fault. i mean ffs they hired Brisebois 2 years to help the players cope with montreal's pressure and the guy shows up at l'antichambre looking like a clown.

Just watch Mesar play you will see i think your opinion will change

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Era aside, Mesar is more skilled and more agile. Not sure if you have seen his highlights but i feel like alot of people are basing their predictions by looking at the draft positions. Mesar is the real deal and has played againts men. I know its not a popular opinion because Slaf is the no1 draft so he'll get priority but Mesar is definitly a much better hockey player.

As for the players we burned, no alot of those players played almost a full year before they completely disappeared.

Chipchura for example was a player we thought almost made it but no the team sent him down , they never respected him and he went on to have a decent career of 400+ NHL games. Beaulieu played like 3 full seasons, at some point he was sent down 3-4 times in a spam of 2 days?

Look its alot easier to throw the blame at the players but the truth is that montreal doesnt know how to develop players. It cant always be the players fault. i mean ffs they hired Brisebois 2 years to help the players cope with montreal's pressure and the guy shows up at l'antichambre looking like a clown.

Just watch Mesar play you will see i think your opinion will change

I've watched Mesar and really like him but you are selling Koivu short. I don't know that I have ever seen any player as agile than Koivu pre injuries. There aren't many on this board who are old enough to have watched early Koivu as adults but there were back to back WJC's where even though he wasn't the top scorer he was the talk of the tournament solely due to his agility, creativity and skill level. Saku was the first player that I badly wanted Montreal to draft and it actually happened.

Anyways....back to Mesar

 

[Bombshell11]

Fischer was never in the AHL, assuming you are talking about David Fischer and not some random prospect from another team.

The rest of the players you listed outside of Chipchura who was 100% not the fault of spending too much time in the AHL, it was the injuries that impacted his speed/skating and he still was a solid 4th line center, I would say the rest were actually rushed to the NHL, so not sure how anyone could think they spent too much time in the AHL.

As for Koivu at 18 he had 10 pts in 46 games in Liiga, not sure how in the world that means he was ready for the NHL.

i was talking about the minors as a whole. Yeah Fischer never played for us this why we got the compensation pick, the point that we ruined that pick/player still stands.

Who cares how many points Koivu scored as an 18 years old in a men's league? Slaf had 10 points in 31 gp, he still got drafted no1 and will most likely start the season with the pros.

I dont think you're interested in this conversation why bother?

 

[DAChampion]

I just hate the idea of deciding ahead of time where a player should be. I feel like the AHL would be best for Slafkovsky, but if he comes to camp and absolutely dominates, the NHL is where he should start.

If they had done that with Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi rather than overreacting to a strong camp they'd be better players.

There's a ton of top prospects we ruined by letting them rot in the minors for too long. Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Poehling, Juulsen, Scherbak, Chipchura, .

All of those but Beaulieu had their development stalled by significant injuries.

Juulsen, for example, missed two years of hockey due to some sort of face injury. That's not a bad development issue, that's not a bad drafting issue, it's just bad luck.

 

[DAChampion]

The only cases are where real abuse takes place other than that a true

What would you consider to be real abuse? How would you rank the anecdotal evidence on Therrien and Lefebvre?

Wouldn't limiting ice time be enough to stall development?

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

What would you consider to be real abuse? How would you rank the anecdotal evidence on Therrien and Lefebvre?

Wouldn't limiting ice time be enough to stall development?

Real abuse would be Kyle Beach scenarios, abuse that can permanently damage a young adult.

I agree 100% that coaches like Therrien and Lefebvre can stall development by discouraging creativity and being too punitive. They just don't permanently ruin players as the player will fight through it and eventually get there if they have what it takes to play at the highest level. This is not to say that their coaching styles are acceptable because I despise both of them. The fact that they don't get players to play to their full potential is bad for the organization and bad for morale.

 

[Steve Shutt]

I prefer to see our 18 & 19 years olds develop in the CHL, NCAA, or Europe giving them lots of ice time to develop. No need to rush them into the AHL or NHL

 

[417]

Yeah Koivu was absolutely electric before the knee injuries and was at the top of the scoring race when he got hurt. I believe it was the first season in the Bell Centre and he had fans on the edge of their seats every time he got on the ice. He was so fast and agile with incredible lower body strength. His IQ, vision and creativity made great use of his athleticism and it was such a sick feeling to see him go down and then get the news about the severity of the injury. Post injury Saku was much more conservative and not nearly as dynamic as he was before he got hurt.

So yes, Mesar looks good but I agree that calling him more skilled than Koivu is a reach that any scout who saw pre-injury Koivu would not agree with.

Freaking Jeff Shantz...Koivu was never the same.

 

[montreal]

i was talking about the minors as a whole. Yeah Fischer never played for us this why we got the compensation pick, the point that we ruined that pick/player still stands.

Who cares how many points Koivu scored as an 18 years old in a men's league? Slaf had 10 points in 31 gp, he still got drafted no1 and will most likely start the season with the pros.

I dont think you're interested in this conversation why bother?

I can't say I follow you, what does Fischer have to do with players staying too long in the minors and how did the Habs ruin that pick? Do you mean by making a bad pick or are you suggesting staying too long in the NCAA?

As for Koivu, you said he was ready for the NHL at 18, if he couldn't produce much in Liiga, how was he ready for the NHL?

 

[Saundies]

Being drafted after Slafkovsky will do wonders for this kid's development. There will be absolutely no pressure at all to rush him to the NHL, let him develop, and come up as slow as possible if needed -- super rare for one of our first-rounders.

 

[Bombshell11]

I can't say I follow you, what does Fischer have to do with players staying too long in the minors and how did the Habs ruin that pick? Do you mean by making a bad pick or are you suggesting staying too long in the NCAA?

As for Koivu, you said he was ready for the NHL at 18, if he couldn't produce much in Liiga, how was he ready for the NHL?

I dont know what happend with that pick i dint really follow it but thats just one of the examples i mentioned and the list is actually really long of players the habs did not manage well, lets not nit pick 1 example from a list of 100+ players who were drafted the last 20 years and which dint pan out. Of course its understandable that picks from third round and above are hit or miss but the habs have a very poor success in developing their first picks and it cant be just a coincidence. Just look at Mcdonaugh and Sergachev both never played for mtl, ok sergachev playd 4 games, big deal. Both have been important pieces for their teams and both won the stanley cup with tampa while being part of the core. IT CANT JUST BE A COINCIDENCE

Forget about the koivu stuff, you should know why Koivu couldnt produce that much as a rookie in a top professional league that is not a developement league.

 

[Runner77]

The key question here is if Montreal wants to develop Mesar into a center. If yes, then he should definitely go to the OHL.
Personally, I think that the AHL is too physical for him and I would want to see him in the OHL.

Do we know how well Mesar has played as a center? Does he possess the IQ and skills to assume the role?

 

[Bombshell11]

Do we know how well Mesar has played as a center? Does he possess the IQ and skills to assume the role?

yes

 

[SOLR]

There's a ton of top prospects we ruined by letting them rot in the minors for too long. Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Poehling, Juulsen, Scherbak, Chipchura, . The only players that really benefited from going down are Pacioretty and maybe Plekanec, Pacioretty though hes the one who asked for more time in the AHL.

As for Koivu he was my favourite player for a very long time, he went to finland two years to complete his military service, he was ready for the pros at 18. Yes Koivu was very talented but Mesar does things a bit differently with more finesse and more skills besides that they're very similar in their attitude and in their compete level.

But we still need to see how both Slaf and Mesar will play during the pre-season and in some of the NHL games. Im not gonna sit here defending a position prior seing them againts NHL players.

All im saying so far is that Mesar looks like the real deal and we should give him the chance to prove himself and give him the opportunity to play in the NHL if we think he can follow the pace and not just send him in the minors "just because"

All of these guys did not deserve their first NHL appearances, that's what they have in common. It's not the other way around.

 

[Bombshell11]

All of these guys did not deserve their first NHL appearances, that's what they have in common. It's not the other way around.

Like Michel Bergeron used to say: Chui tu fou moe?

You're essentially saying that our scouting was so atrocious they couldn't spot a decent player that could grow in the organisation and become a main stay? You're either in denial, delusional or are being intellectually dishonest.

I call BS on your statement regardless.

Price is the only one in 20 years that was given that uncoditional love people need to become succesful and hes the only one that had a long lasting career here. Is it a coincidence you think? Look at Mcdonaugh, he had to be traded to have a long career, look at Sergachev he played his first season when he was 19 years old and became a top 4 D in a back to back SC team, he was allowed to grow and learn in the NHL.

20 years of developement that wasted so many careers. Out of all the dreafted players in that era only Subban came through as a household name for a short 5-7 years. Even then the team had no idea how to handle him so they sabotaged him as much as they could.

Now with a fresh management, fresh vision i hope we give the youth better opportunities and more serious challenges. Give the kids missions in the NHL and stop spoiling their passion for the sport.

To the HABS org... its not just about the dollar sign, these are people too.

 

[SOLR]

Like Michel Bergeron used to say: Chui tu fou moe?

You're essentially saying that our scouting was so atrocious they couldn't spot a decent player that could grow in the organisation and become a main stay? You're either in denial, delusional or are being intellectually dishonest.

I call BS on your statement regardless.

Price is the only one in 20 years that was given that uncoditional love people need to become succesful and hes the only one that had a long lasting career here. Is it a coincidence you think? Look at Mcdonaugh, he had to be traded to have a long career, look at Sergachev he played his first season when he was 19 years old and became a top 4 D in a back to back SC team, he was allowed to grow and learn in the NHL.

20 years of developement that wasted so many careers. Out of all the dreafted players in that era only Subban came through as a household name for a short 5-7 years. Even then the team had no idea how to handle him so they sabotaged him as much as they could.

Now with a fresh management, fresh vision i hope we give the youth better opportunities and more serious challenges. Give the kids missions in the NHL and stop spoiling their passion for the sport.

To the HABS org... its not just about the dollar sign, these are people too.

If you wanted to make the team, when we were winning, in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s - the price to make the team was high. This doesn't mean that you don't develop in the NHL, but it means that you reserve this to human beings that have paid the price of entry. Accountability has to start somewhere.

When you give millions to teenagers, many will play video games instead of pursuing their careers. That's why the "price" of entry has to be dedicated focus, a bit of struggle, patience. You keep telling yourself these stories parts like they are relevant, you miss the whole subplot of an organization with poor leaders that don't really have a good sense of accountability (starts at the top) - so they missed a lot of the good players at the draft, traded awfully, chose the wrong leaders, allowed in the NHL too many who had not paid the price. etc.

Mcdonaugh & Sergachev were traded before their career here began. That makes for a piss poor argument about our problems. Subban was drafted and integrated quickly into the squad, much like McDonaugh and Sergachev. Chelios, Schneider, Desjardins, and many promising young Ds didn't make it in Montreal for the length of their careers, like Subban - the key in those decisions was not really these players, it was our management group generally being uncompetitive dinosaurs. It was never about a focus for $, it was simple incompetence. They never made a lot of $...like a winning team would.

 

[Bombshell11]

If you wanted to make the team, when we were winning, in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s - the price to make the team was high. This doesn't mean that you don't develop in the NHL, but it means that you reserve this to human beings that have paid the price of entry. Accountability has to start somewhere.

What does accountability and building a team from the past have to do with the main subject of this conversation which is Mesar making the NHL if he deserves it? Mesar looks to be extremely mature and some one who's very humble, i don't think we have serious grounds to question how accountable he is however Slovakians are known to be very hard working individuals. Accountability is the last thing i would worry about in a Slovakian. I mean just look at the list of the top Slovakian players that played in the NHL.... Peter Stasny, Marian Hossa, Chara, Halak, Budaj... any way moving on.

When you give millions to teenagers, many will play video games instead of pursuing their careers. That's why the "price" of entry has to be dedicated focus, a bit of struggle, patience. You keep telling yourself these stories parts like they are relevant, you miss the whole subplot of an organization with poor leaders that don't really have a good sense of accountability (starts at the top) - so they missed a lot of the good players at the draft, traded awfully, chose the wrong leaders, allowed in the NHL too many who had not paid the price. etc.

What era do you live in? Kids and adults play video games now, this is part of the society..,. what does that have anything to do with how good they perform on the ice?? Max Vestapen plays video games all the time, fact most of the younger drivers in F1 play video games all day long and have podcasts which they stream on. I totally aggree with you on the second part which is the organisation sucks big giant apples. But the reason i replied to you was because you implied the players we draft arent good enough to play in the NHL

Mcdonaugh & Sergachev were traded before their career here began. That makes for a piss poor argument about our problems. Subban was drafted and integrated quickly into the squad, much like McDonaugh and Sergachev. Chelios, Schneider, Desjardins, and many promising young Ds didn't make it in Montreal for the length of their careers, like Subban - the key in those decisions was not really these players, it was our management group generally being uncompetitive dinosaurs. It was never about a focus for $, it was simple incompetence. They never made a lot of $...like a winning team would.

My point is Mcdonaugh and Sergachev HAD to move out of here in order to have a chance at a great career.. they had to go somewhere else in order to flourish. Subban begin his NHL debut when he was 20, he played 2 regular games and then he was called up for the playoffs at age 21. was officially integrated into the team at age 21 so 3 years of wait is hardly "quickly" for someone who was already dominating the OHL as a D at the age of 17 years of age. Subban normally would have had a real chance at cracking an NHL squad at the age of 19 years old because he was that good.

But yeah at the end i think we agree that this management was trash for the last 20 years at least and that is why im hoping they would give a real opportunity to Mesar and not play the politics game of you gotta eat s*** for 3 years because thats how we roll here.

 

[SOLR]

What does accountability and building a team from the past have to do with the main subject of this conversation which is Mesar making the NHL if he deserves it? Mesar looks to be extremely mature and some one who's very humble, i don't think we have serious grounds to question how accountable he is however Slovakians are known to be very hard working individuals. Accountability is the last thing i would worry about in a Slovakian. I mean just look at the list of the top Slovakian players that played in the NHL.... Peter Stasny, Marian Hossa, Chara, Halak, Budaj... any way moving on.

So basically because he's slovakian no accountability for him, le'ts make country rules now?

What era do you live in? Kids and adults play video games now, this is part of the society..,. what does that have anything to do with how good they perform on the ice?? Max Vestapen plays video games all the time, fact most of the younger drivers in F1 play video games all day long and have podcasts which they stream on. I totally aggree with you on the second part which is the organisation sucks big giant apples. But the reason i replied to you was because you implied the players we draft arent good enough to play in the NHL

I'm a gamer. I know gaming is everywhere (for better or worse) - like Porn.
Scherbak, Juolevi etc. more and more of these young guys evade their careers with games. This is new.

My point is Mcdonaugh and Sergachev HAD to move out of here in order to have a chance at a great career.. they had to go somewhere else in order to flourish. Subban begin his NHL debut when he was 20, he played 2 regular games and then he was called up for the playoffs at age 21. was officially integrated into the team at age 21 so 3 years of wait is hardly "quickly" for someone who was already dominating the OHL as a D at the age of 17 years of age. Subban normally would have had a real chance at cracking an NHL squad at the age of 19 years old because he was that good.

But yeah at the end i think we agree that this management was trash for the last 20 years at least and that is why im hoping they would give a real opportunity to Mesar and not play the politics game of you gotta eat s*** for 3 years because thats how we roll here.

To think that McDonaugh and Sergachev had to be traded to have a career is revisionist to the extreme. You can't simulate the world and expect people to accept such bad argument.

I did not say we should make Mesar wait on purpose. I said give him another year at least - measure again. My current measurement on him is that he's not close to the NHL (if he was, he would have been drafted top 10 in a bad draft year...). Let him dominate juniors for 1 year, while he gets more acclimated to north america. This seems like a very productive use of time. I'm for patient development, when I say price, I mean it for what it is - a price. A price can be paid quickly or slowly. It's not about keeping people down.

Mesar is the kind of player that needs to make the middle 6 right from the start or he won't see enough ice to develop once in the NHL, you have to be more patient with this kind of prospect so that their first step arrives when they are ready for it.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

I dont know why some people want him in the AHL im all for Juraj playing with the Rocket but Mesar should definitely go to Kitchener

 

[Alexandre Magny]

Pour ma part, Mesar devrait jouer a Kitchener et y être dominant ensuite il fera le saut AHL , je veux bien croire qu'il jouait dans une ligue pro mais il jouait aussi moins de 40 matchs par saison, jouer en amerique du nord dans la OHL plus de 65 matchs en plus des séries ne lui nuirait pas et si il est dominant ben il fera le saut l'année suivante dans la AHL et y arrivera confiant.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Pour ma part, Mesar devrait jouer a Kitchener et y être dominant ensuite il fera le saut AHL , je veux bien croire qu'il jouait dans une ligue pro mais il jouait aussi moins de 40 matchs par saison, jouer en amerique du nord dans la OHL plus de 65 matchs en plus des séries ne lui nuirait pas et si il est dominant ben il fera le saut l'année suivante dans la AHL et y arrivera confiant.

100% d'accord. Je ne serai pas fâché s'il joue à Laval non-plus. Mais Kitchener peux être là meilleure place pour lui cette année.