Thoughts on the Chicago Blackhawks?

hockeydoug

Registered User
May 26, 2012
3,890
392
Long story short: that Toews contract is sinking them.

The Toews contract is only a small portion of it.

The AAV vs payroll ratio is way down for their 50 contracts.
Spending still matters, and Chicago has lost a huge advantage in that area they had over the rest of the league. Even in 2011 they were able to hide 11.5+ on Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa, Huet, etc. for example. That was their closest year in terms of AAV being equal to the player salaries.

Before getting into roster construction, shave 5-10 million out management's ability to spend on players, and there is likely to be a significant drop off in play.
 

axecrew

Registered User
Feb 6, 2007
2,290
594
:laugh:

This city has always had a rabid Blackhawks following. There has been a diehard fanbase forever. Even in the sad, pathetic, late 90's and early 2000's era. Where Wirtz wouldn't pay a single player, and every iconic Hawk of the modern day left for greener pastures, and greener wallets. Dollar Bill's legacy, right there.

You talk like you know anything about the Hawks or the city, and the fanbase of this team... but it's pretty clear you're not as well-versed as you think. Because you'd know that there was ALWAYS a huge following of the Hawks in this city.

You're aware the Hawks have sold out every single game since 2008. And were starting to fill the stadium prior to that, after Toews and Kane were drafted in subsequent years, right? During the 07-08 season they had 15+ sellouts, and numerous games close to that mark. In 2008 they started their current sellout streak. You know what that is attributed to? Not bandwagon fans, because they hadn't even won a Cup yet. That is the Blackhawks faithful recognizing the turn-around in the franchise, and coming back.

The city seems like it has a massive following of bandwagon fans because the vast majority of the fans abandoned the team due to the owner in the mid 90's to mid 2000's, and then came back to them after he died. Plain and simple.

And what is wrong with bandwagon fans, anyways? As a diehard hockey player, hockey fan, and Hawks fan spanning my entire life, I encourage it. It's growth for the best sport in the world in my hometown city. I'll never complain about it. A fan is a fan. Whether you like it or not, it's good for the city, and good for the franchise. What seems to be the problem with them? They don't know the game as well as you? They don't know the players as well as you? So educate them

First of all you know nothing about me...who I know...who I talk to...etc...my past post on here validify my being able to say them.

Had you actually READ ALL of my post on the subject you would've seen where I said that I know there are true hawk fans all over and my problem is with the 7 year fans who are only fans because they were winning...the complete definition of a bandwagoner...

The encounter with the "girl in a bar" as you put it...a) Didn't happen in a bar and b) she said things more vulgar than I'm allowed to post on here...so get YOUR facts straight before you chastise me for something you know nothing about.

Thanks for the history lesson by the way...please don't mistake what I say for a lack of knowledge on the subject because I probably go back with the hawks etc a lot longer than you do...unless youre going to tell me you've been on this earth more than 53 years. I've seen the inner workings of the wirtz family and probably know more about the way they do business than you so...I kinda know my crap when it comes to them..BUT that's not what this is about...this is about people who are fans of the hawks because they were winning and no other reason...those people aren't true fans...just like all the BULLS fans during the 90's who only went to the game to be seen and look cool for being there. Corp. America at its finest...go to the event because it's cool to be there and show off how important you are to your friends, kinda like the band wagon hawk fans...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,085
21,411
Chicago 'Burbs
First of all you know nothing about me...who I know...who I talk to...etc...my past post on here validify my being able to say them.

Had you actually READ ALL of my post on the subject you would've seen where I said that I know there are true hawk fans all over and my problem is with the 7 year fans who are only fans because they were winning...the complete definition of a bandwagoner...

The encounter with the "girl in a bar" as you put it...a) Didn't happen in a bar and b) she said things more vulgar than I'm allowed to post on here...so get YOUR facts straight before you chastise me for something you know nothing about.

Thanks for the history lesson by the way...please don't mistake what I say for a lack of knowledge on the subject because I probably go back with the hawks etc a lot longer than you do...unless youre going to tell me you've been on this earth more than 53 years. I've seen the inner workings of the wirtz family and probably know more about the way they do business than you so...I kinda know my crap when it comes to them..BUT that's not what this is about...this is about people who are fans of the hawks because they were winning and no other reason...those people aren't true fans...just like all the BULLS fans during the 90's who only went to the game to be seen and look cool for being there. Corp. America at its finest...go to the event because it's cool to be there and show off how important you are to your friends, kinda like the band wagon hawk fans...

You seem to be missing the point of it all, and seem to have to flex your muscles about who you know and who you talk to... for whatever reason. I did read all of your posts in this thread on the subject, though.

The point is, why hate bandwagon fans? Why say that the Hawks have more bandwagon fans than any other sports team, when it's probably the farthest thing from the truth? Considering they started selling out PRIOR to their success, and their first Cup win. Which to me says that their loyal fanbase was starting to return after the death of Dollar Bill in '07. Do you think it's just a coincidence that the year he dies, the Hawks are selling out again? And that the very next year, they sold out every single game? That would be naive on your part, to say the least.

As for the "girl in a bar" story, where it occurred is a moot point. If you're a Hawks fan, and your buddies are Hawks fans, and she was heckling "a member of the Bruins" (whatever this actually means: a fan? a player? a staff member?) during the Cup Final between the two teams... what is the issue, for one? Why the need to embarrass the girl, for two? You seem to take great pride in the fact that your buddy embarrassed a fan of his own team for heckling a fan(I'm assuming this is what you meant) of the Bruins, in a Cup Final series between the two teams. Which is even more head-scratch worthy.

For two, you still haven't answered the big question. Why hate bandwagon fans? If it creates new fans of the sport, and the team, what is the issue? If 50% of the "bandwagon" fans continue to watch the Hawks and/or hockey for the rest of their lives, that would be a good thing, would it not? I don't get it. I don't get the hate for bandwagon fans. For any team, or any sport. Does your longer fandom somehow make you a better fan? Because you were around longer? Or knew how fun and exciting hockey was before they did? It makes no sense to me. The fact that someone can hate another fan of their team because they started watching them more recently than yourself. It's ridiculous, IMO.
 

CallMeShaft

Calder Bedard Fan
Apr 14, 2014
15,884
21,546
I don't see any problems with this team scoring goals. Schmaltz, in his 35 games after being recalled from Rockford last year, put up 24pts. If he did that for an 82 game season, he'd have 56pts. I expect him to play most of the season centering the third line, so 40pts is a more reasonable expectation.

And saw this tweet today...



Obviously Eichel is the better player (plays more minutes per game, plays center, plays on PP, younger), but the above tweet should still show people how sneaky good Hartman is at even strength.

Not to mention Sharp can be an asset (I expect 30-40pts if fully healthy) and John Hayden was able to produce some offense last year after finishing his season at Yale (kid will be a solid bottom 6er).


I have concerns over defense. Mainly how much Seabrook will regress and how Murphy will perform. But I liked Kempny as a #4 last year, and am high on Forsling's potential (38 games as a 20 year old, shined in preseason last year, won the Swedish Junior Hockey Player of the Year award in 2016 (a lot of noticeable players have won that award)).

Hawks fans have a right to be cautiously optimistic about what this team will look like this year.
 

HighNote

Just one more Cup
Jul 1, 2014
3,329
4,140
St. Louis
To me... the D isn't necessarily worse. It's just a huge question mark until we see the development of Kempny, Forsling, and Murphy. And see what Rutta and Oesterle have to offer. You can't make any bold statements about this D until at least half-way through the season, IMO.

I don't know how you can look at their defense and not think they've downgraded. Sure, if everything goes right and all those question marks pan out nicely it could be a decent group. It may even be on par with their D last year, which got hickory smoked by Nashville.

It's not really a bold statement to say they've downgraded on paper.
 

ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
3,578
I don't know how you can look at their defense and not think they've downgraded. Sure, if everything goes right and all those question marks pan out nicely it could be a decent group. It may even be on par with their D last year, which got hickory smoked by Nashville.

It's not really a bold statement to say they've downgraded on paper.

On paper, sure. On the ice, we'll wait and see. Hjalmarsson was hot garbage from March on through the playoff series. There was no glimmer of hope either. He was just done. And he doesn't produce any offense so that's pretty bad when he's not bringing anything to the table and getting big minutes. This guy has hobbled to the bench and stayed in the game more than anyone in the league bar none throughout his career. We knew he probably wouldn't last too long, didn't think he'd lose it this soon though. But even if that is the way it goes, 60 good games and then he's done for the year, still not a bad player to have if your goal is to get into the playoffs. In Arizona, it's probably a perfect match for him. The goalies were the story on D last year, not the D-men, or the chemistry.

The pairings were not cohesive either. That's definitely on Q, but they just weren't. Seabrook looks SIGNIFICANTLY better with Kempny and Keith didn't have anyone that played off him great (hopefully Murphy can be that guy). The third pair could have been better too (enter more PT for Forsling, and Rutta and Oesterle).
 

Bjornar Moxnes

Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
Oct 16, 2016
11,507
3,976
Troms og Finnmark
He's not awful, but he's definitely a downgrade from Hjalmarsson, even though his cap hit is almost as high. If Hjalmarsson continues to decline or whatever, and Murphy develops into a great defenseman, then yeah, the trade will be worth it. But that depends on Murphy panning out, which will take time to see. Strictly speaking about next season, he's a downgrade.

So the defense last year, which resulted in a first-round ass-kicking, is even worse this year. That doesn't bode well.

I'm going to be honest with you the Hawks defense was not actually a problem in the series. The Predators forwards were just deadly in every way imaginable followed by the league's most dangerous blueline, and Rinne playing on the universe's most powerful substance does that to you.
 

ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
3,578
I'm going to be honest with you the Hawks defense was not actually a problem in the series. The Predators forwards were just deadly in every way imaginable followed by the league's most dangerous blueline, and Rinne playing on the universe's most powerful substance does that to you.

It was a combination of a lot of things. The young guys were shell shocked, as they should be, they were rookies and some didn't even play a full season last year. Hjalmarsson and Panarin just crapped the bed unmercifully. They had negative value. Other players didn't play their best but weren't awful like Panarin and Hammer, they just got dominated by a great Nashville team. I didn't have any problem with what Toews, Kane and Crawford brought to the table, that's about it.
 
Last edited:

Bjornar Moxnes

Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
Oct 16, 2016
11,507
3,976
Troms og Finnmark
It was a combination of a lot of things. The young guys were shell shocked, as they should be, they were rookies and some didn't even play a full season last year. Hjalmarsson and Panarin just crapped the bed unmericifully. They had negative value. Other players didn't play their best but weren't awful like Panarin and Hammer, they just got dominated by a great Nashville team. I didn't have any problem with what Toews, Kane and Crawford brought to the table, that's about it.

Toews and Kane both looked lost in my opinion. Crawford made some great saves but also allowed some poor goals and especially made very poor decisions with the puck and his way of trying to make saves looked awkward and gave up poor rebounds.
 

ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
3,578
Toews and Kane both looked lost in my opinion. Crawford made some great saves but also allowed some poor goals and especially made very poor decisions with the puck and his way of trying to make saves looked awkward and gave up poor rebounds.

They were trying to do it on their own, of course they looked lost. They had no help. Panarin especially, I'm still embarrassed for him and am so glad we even had the opportunity to swap him out for Saad. Kane and Panarin played off each other for 2 years straight and then Panarin just said **** it, this is too hard, peace, good luck Kaner.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,085
21,411
Chicago 'Burbs
I don't know how you can look at their defense and not think they've downgraded. Sure, if everything goes right and all those question marks pan out nicely it could be a decent group. It may even be on par with their D last year, which got hickory smoked by Nashville.

It's not really a bold statement to say they've downgraded on paper.

I agree on the bolded. It's not a bold statement to say they've downgraded, on paper. With those last two words being the key in that statement. As it looks like they've downgraded, on paper. But if everything goes right for them, and the question marks pan out nicely, it will definitely be better than last year, IMO. Not just on par. Just my opinion on it. But they'll be far superior, mobility-wise, in comparison to last year. Pretty much all of Murphy, Rutta, Forsling, and Kempny are far more mobile than Hammer, Oduya, and Campbell. And the Hawks' success was always driven by the superior mobility on the back end, in comparison to all their competition, during their run. They would go back to get a dump, or chip-in, and be sending a stretch pass back out to breaking forwards before the opposing forecheckers even had a chance to get in on them to get a stick in the lane, or a body on them.
 
Last edited:

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,085
21,411
Chicago 'Burbs
They were trying to do it on their own, of course they looked lost. They had no help. Panarin especially, I'm still embarrassed for him and am so glad we even had the opportunity to swap him out for Saad. Kane and Panarin played off each other for 2 years straight and then Panarin just said **** it, this is too hard, peace, good luck Kaner.

Personally, I don't think it's a coincidence that Panarin's two-way game took about 10 steps backwards in the season that he signed his new contract. He signed for big dollars, and then decided not to play D after that. Just stood at the top of the circle waiting for Kaner to feed him passes on a silver platter.
 

Bjornar Moxnes

Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
Oct 16, 2016
11,507
3,976
Troms og Finnmark
Personally, I don't think it's a coincidence that Panarin's two-way game took about 10 steps backwards in the season that he signed his new contract. He signed for big dollars, and then decided not to play D after that. Just stood at the top of the circle waiting for Kaner to feed him passes on a silver platter.

People called his contract a steal when Forsberg is making the same amount for 5 more years and a far superior 2-way game and less reliant on PP.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,085
21,411
Chicago 'Burbs
People called his contract a steal when Forsberg is making the same amount for 5 more years and a far superior 2-way game and less reliant on PP.

I thought it would have been a steal at the time, also. He was playing great two-way hockey, putting up 70 point seasons, and came in at 6m for 2 years, when no one thought they'd be able to keep him at all.

He just gave up on D after he signed it, though. Became one-dimensional. Which is why Saad is with the Hawks instead, now. Q can't stand that one-dimensional, offense-only thing. He wants his guys to be defensively responsible. Unless your name is Kane, obviously. But he's a different story. Not to mention... with being coached by Q, Kane's D effort/responsibility has improved drastically from when he came into the league.
 

ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
3,578
Personally, I don't think it's a coincidence that Panarin's two-way game took about 10 steps backwards in the season that he signed his new contract. He signed for big dollars, and then decided not to play D after that. Just stood at the top of the circle waiting for Kaner to feed him passes on a silver platter.

Panarin plays for the money first, his health and safety second, and winning third. It's just taboo to talk about it because he's Russian but there are players like that from all countries, nobody cares about the why's or how's, he showed us what he is all about. He talked about his contract and the pressure of the money all the time. Well, you got it buddy, thanks a lot for the molten lava streak heading into the playoffs that won you the bonus we have to carry over now. Good luck with Torts, he didn't like Saad, hope you are more of a Torts type player than Saad. And don't go out of your way to become fluent in English, some things you're not gonna want to hear.
 

CallMeShaft

Calder Bedard Fan
Apr 14, 2014
15,884
21,546
The Panarin hate in this thread is weird...

He was better in his rookie season, sure, but he was still a good player for us. His defense didn't get worse last season. The only thing that became worse was his creativity in the offensive zone (he spent too much time waiting in the left circle for a one timer). But he was still a damn fine player.

I will miss him next year. And I'm man enough to admit as much. I think Saad is a better fit with what the Hawks need than Panarin, but that shouldn't mean we should turn on him.

I think his biggest issue is needing to be so damn sheltered, which having the defensively inept Kane by his side didn't help matters. But if that's the way Q would've used him for the next two seasons, I'm happy we could swap him for Saad.
 

JustABlackhawksFan

Registered User
Jun 2, 2015
1,695
2
Panarin plays for the money first, his health and safety second, and winning third. It's just taboo to talk about it because he's Russian but there are players like that from all countries, nobody cares about the why's or how's, he showed us what he is all about. He talked about his contract and the pressure of the money all the time. Well, you got it buddy, thanks a lot for the molten lava streak heading into the playoffs that won you the bonus we have to carry over now. Good luck with Torts, he didn't like Saad, hope you are more of a Torts type player than Saad. And don't go out of your way to become fluent in English, some things you're not gonna want to hear.

If Panarin "played for the money first," he probably would have not signed an extension during the season. He would have waited, played hardball with demanding an offer the cap-strapped Hawks couldn't afford, and then probably have been traded due to the threat of an offer sheet. Sort of like, I don't know.... what happened to Saad?

Panarin could have gotten more than 6 million from another team if he really wanted to play hardball, that's for damn sure.

I understand the reasons the Hawks made the swap but this turning on the player as soon as he is traded thing is not a good look. He was very much a fan favorite in Chicago prior to the trade, and was hardly the only player who didn't produce in the playoffs.
 

ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
3,578
I'm already planning on the cap going up and resigning him in 2 years after he sucks in Columbus. He's just not a go to guy when you need him the most. Saad is, at least on this team. He can will himself to a goal at any time. He's fast, big and tenacious, of course he can. Panarin is a nice complementary player you want to have when you have the other guys around him like Toews, Kane and Saad. Shame they couldn't play together these last 2 years, it's not out of the question though.
 

axecrew

Registered User
Feb 6, 2007
2,290
594
You seem to be missing the point of it all, and seem to have to flex your muscles about who you know and who you talk to... for whatever reason. I did read all of your posts in this thread on the subject, though.

The point is, why hate bandwagon fans? Why say that the Hawks have more bandwagon fans than any other sports team, when it's probably the farthest thing from the truth? Considering they started selling out PRIOR to their success, and their first Cup win. Which to me says that their loyal fanbase was starting to return after the death of Dollar Bill in '07. Do you think it's just a coincidence that the year he dies, the Hawks are selling out again? And that the very next year, they sold out every single game? That would be naive on your part, to say the least.

As for the "girl in a bar" story, where it occurred is a moot point. If you're a Hawks fan, and your buddies are Hawks fans, and she was heckling "a member of the Bruins" (whatever this actually means: a fan? a player? a staff member?) during the Cup Final between the two teams... what is the issue, for one? Why the need to embarrass the girl, for two? You seem to take great pride in the fact that your buddy embarrassed a fan of his own team for heckling a fan(I'm assuming this is what you meant) of the Bruins, in a Cup Final series between the two teams. Which is even more head-scratch worthy.

For two, you still haven't answered the big question. Why hate bandwagon fans? If it creates new fans of the sport, and the team, what is the issue? If 50% of the "bandwagon" fans continue to watch the Hawks and/or hockey for the rest of their lives, that would be a good thing, would it not? I don't get it. I don't get the hate for bandwagon fans. For any team, or any sport. Does your longer fandom somehow make you a better fan? Because you were around longer? Or knew how fun and exciting hockey was before they did? It makes no sense to me. The fact that someone can hate another fan of their team because they started watching them more recently than yourself. It's ridiculous, IMO.

The Big Question...Why??? Because they are not TRUE fans, they are fairweather fans who flock to the next big thing when they start winning...when the hawks get bad again,and they will, those same fans will be Penguin fans or Oiler fans or whoever is the flavor of the month.

Kinda like the fools who have to have the newest and best Iphone so they can be part of the IN crowd. I'm sure you know someone who is like that right? BTW I'm not nor are my friends hawk fans...we revile the team for reasons to long to type. And yes the old man is part of that.
 

jls24

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
1,309
1,162
A couple of quick points about our defense:

1. Keith and Hammer had no chemistry. Both great defensemen but wasted together. If Murphy and Keith have any chemistry (assuming they play together) this might not be as big a step down as people think.

2. Getting Oduya at the deadline killed our defense. Q insisted on using him 20 min a night even though he was consistently terrible. He and Seabrook were our worst pairing by far, as opposed to Kempny/Seabrook who played very well together. Not only did this break up a good pairing for us but also resulted in Kempny being benched, except when Q dressed 7 dmen in another stroke of genius.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,085
21,411
Chicago 'Burbs
The Panarin hate in this thread is weird...

He was better in his rookie season, sure, but he was still a good player for us. His defense didn't get worse last season. The only thing that became worse was his creativity in the offensive zone (he spent too much time waiting in the left circle for a one timer). But he was still a damn fine player.

I will miss him next year. And I'm man enough to admit as much. I think Saad is a better fit with what the Hawks need than Panarin, but that shouldn't mean we should turn on him.

I think his biggest issue is needing to be so damn sheltered, which having the defensively inept Kane by his side didn't help matters. But if that's the way Q would've used him for the next two seasons, I'm happy we could swap him for Saad.

I don't see anyone turning on Panarin. Personally, I loved him, and wished it made more sense to keep him as a Hawk. But the Hawks had a Panarin in Kane, already. They didn't need another guy playing lackadaisical D, floating constantly, and sitting around as a one-dimensional player waiting for his one-timer opportunity from the top of the circles. And say what you want about his D, CMS, but it definitely took a drop from year 1 to year 2. There's no doubt about it. The effort on D wasn't there like it was in year 1, and prior to the contract. I'll miss him too. He was fun to watch. But Saad fills a much bigger hole in comparison to Panarin. As far as Kane goes... he's not defensively inept. He's A. Not asked to play D. His purpose is to setup goals and bury the puck. Period. Two things he's better at than the vast majority of the NHL. B. Chooses not to play hard on both sides of the ice, reserving his energy for odd-man breaks, and dominating in the offensive zone. I mean, he's given an outrageous amount of O zone starts for a reason. When he wants to, he can be solid enough defensively. We've seen it time and time again. He's a significantly different defensive player in the playoffs, as well. But they put defensively responsible players on his lines, in order to free him up to use his skills/talents where they're best served. In the offensive zone. Because he's better than pretty much anyone in the game when it comes to what he does. No need for him to be strapped down by playing hard two-way hockey.

If Panarin "played for the money first," he probably would have not signed an extension during the season. He would have waited, played hardball with demanding an offer the cap-strapped Hawks couldn't afford, and then probably have been traded due to the threat of an offer sheet. Sort of like, I don't know.... what happened to Saad?

Panarin could have gotten more than 6 million from another team if he really wanted to play hardball, that's for damn sure.

I understand the reasons the Hawks made the swap but this turning on the player as soon as he is traded thing is not a good look. He was very much a fan favorite in Chicago prior to the trade, and was hardly the only player who didn't produce in the playoffs.

I'm not turning on the player. See above response to CMS. People can criticize a player and explain how he's not as good a fit on this team as Saad, but still like the player... I still like Panarin. But his entire game took a dip in year two, and more specifically, his defensive play fell off hard compared to year one. And with the loss of Hossa, a very good, two-way player was needed to fill that huge hole. Enter Saad. Exit Panarin. It's only logical that it would happen. What would you rather have? Two Kanes and no Hossa? Or one Kane, and one Hossa-lite? I know what I'd pick.

The Big Question...Why??? Because they are not TRUE fans, they are fairweather fans who flock to the next big thing when they start winning...when the hawks get bad again,and they will, those same fans will be Penguin fans or Oiler fans or whoever is the flavor of the month.

Kinda like the fools who have to have the newest and best Iphone so they can be part of the IN crowd. I'm sure you know someone who is like that right? BTW I'm not nor are my friends hawk fans...we revile the team for reasons to long to type. And yes the old man is part of that.

Dude... this is so outrageous to me. You think that local Chicago fans will flock to another city's team because the Hawks get bad? You think that all those millions of people in Chicago wearing Hawks gear are going to start wearing Penguins gear, or Oilers gear now that they're winning again? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? Do you think that's why the Hawks fans stopped supporting the team and organization in the past? Because they were bad?

Do you see the White Sox fans the past handful of years cheering on other teams? With the exception of the Cubs, no. You don't. I'm a southsider, and a diehard Sox fan, but I've watched more and more of the Cubs the past few years, and very little of the Sox, because I have friends that are Cubs fans, my GF is a Cubs fan, and the Sox just haven't been a watchable product. Whereas the Cubs have been fun and exciting, with a lot of young, amazing talent. Baseball is already tough to watch, IMO. Really bad baseball... is impossible to watch. So am I a bandwagoner for the Cubs? By your definition, I probably would be. Which couldn't be farther from the truth. I even bought a damn Cubs official World Series hat. Just to have one, as it was an absolutely historic moment in sports history. Now that the Sox have made moves to bring in some exciting young talent, I'll be watching them more, as they have players that I want to keep up with, and watch develop, just like I watched Hawks players develop over the past 10 years. I know a ton of people who love specific players, and own 3-4 jerseys for different teams for said player because they just love that player, no matter what team they're on. I suppose they're a bandwagon fan, also, because they own another team's jersey?

As for your iPhone reference... it's different than a loyalty to a sports team. Your scenario is not in any way close to being the same as what you're describing with the sports teams/bandwagon fans. If you were to say that they always have to have the newest and best, regardless of the brand, then it would be more accurate. Like they switch from Android to iPhone back and forth every time the newest and best device comes out. That would be an accurate comparison scenario. And that's just not true. There's brand loyalty. ESPECIALLY with sports teams in a city. Yes, I have friends and relatives that always have to have the newest device... but it's always specific to their brand loyalty. I don't know anyone who gets the brand new iPhone, then when the newest Android device comes out they go and get that, then the new iPhone comes out, and they go back and get that instead. It's just not how it works.

Now are there some people out there like that? Yeah, obviously. There are. Many of them are younger kids who don't understand the concept of that loyalty, yet. And many are people who follow some of their favorite players from team to team, again, many of them being kids. But the vast majority are not FotM fans moving from one team to the next based on whoever is good. That's a very small minority, not the majority.

I think you need to come down off your high horse and embrace the fact that there are always going to be new fans of your favorite teams, especially when they're winning, and there's a ton of exposure to them. It's good for the team, and good for the game. Period. What gives you the right to say "You're not a true fan!" Who are you to judge other people? Maybe if the world had less of that judgmental attitude in the world, we'd all be living in a better place. Some advice for you. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
 
Last edited:

axecrew

Registered User
Feb 6, 2007
2,290
594
I don't see anyone turning on Panarin. Personally, I loved him, and wished it made more sense to keep him as a Hawk. But the Hawks had a Panarin in Kane, already. They didn't need another guy playing lackadaisical D, floating constantly, and sitting around as a one-dimensional player waiting for his one-timer opportunity from the top of the circles. And say what you want about his D, CMS, but it definitely took a drop from year 1 to year 2. There's no doubt about it. The effort on D wasn't there like it was in year 1, and prior to the contract. I'll miss him too. He was fun to watch. But Saad fills a much bigger hole in comparison to Panarin. As far as Kane goes... he's not defensively inept. He's A. Not asked to play D. His purpose is to setup goals and bury the puck. Period. Two things he's better at than the vast majority of the NHL. B. Chooses not to play hard on both sides of the ice, reserving his energy for odd-man breaks, and dominating in the offensive zone. I mean, he's given an outrageous amount of O zone starts for a reason. When he wants to, he can be solid enough defensively. We've seen it time and time again. He's a significantly different defensive player in the playoffs, as well. But they put defensively responsible players on his lines, in order to free him up to use his skills/talents where they're best served. In the offensive zone. Because he's better than pretty much anyone in the game when it comes to what he does. No need for him to be strapped down by playing hard two-way hockey.



I'm not turning on the player. See above response to CMS. People can criticize a player and explain how he's not as good a fit on this team as Saad, but still like the player... I still like Panarin. But his entire game took a dip in year two, and more specifically, his defensive play fell off hard compared to year one. And with the loss of Hossa, a very good, two-way player was needed to fill that huge hole. Enter Saad. Exit Panarin. It's only logical that it would happen. What would you rather have? Two Kanes and no Hossa? Or one Kane, and one Hossa-lite? I know what I'd pick.



Dude... this is so outrageous to me. You think that local Chicago fans will flock to another city's team because the Hawks get bad? You think that all those millions of people in Chicago wearing Hawks gear are going to start wearing Penguins gear, or Oilers gear now that they're winning again? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Do you see the White Sox fans the past handful of years cheering on other teams? With the exception of the Cubs, no. You don't. I'm a southsider, and a diehard Sox fan, but I've watched more and more of the Cubs the past few years, and very little of the Sox, because I have friends that are Cubs fans, and the Sox just haven't been a watchable product. Baseball is already tough to watch, IMO. Really bad baseball... is impossible to watch. So am I a bandwagoner for the Cubs? By your definition, I probably would be.

Now that the Sox have made moves to bring in some exciting young talent, I'll be watching them more, as they have players that I want to keep up with, and watch develop, just like I watched Hawks players develop over the past 10 years.

As for your iPhone reference... it's different than a loyalty to a sports team. Your scenario is not in any way close to being the same as what you're describing with the sports teams/bandwagon fans. If you were to say that they always have to have the newest and best, regardless of the brand, then it would be more accurate. Like they switch from Android to iPhone back and forth every time the newest and best device comes out. That would be an accurate comparison scenario. And that's just not true. There's brand loyalty. ESPECIALLY with sports teams in a city.

I think you need to come down off your high horse and embrace the fact that there are always going to be new fans of your favorite teams, especially when they're winning, and there's a ton of exposure to them. It's good for the team, and good for the game. Period.

Now are there some people out there like that? Yeah, obviously. There are. Many of them are younger kids who don't understand the concept of that loyalty, yet. And many are people who follow some of their favorite players from team to team. But the vast majority are not FotM fans moving from one team to the next based on whoever is good.

The person who has missed the point time and time again is...YOU...I'll say this one more time and then I'm done with this conversation...I know there are tons of diehard black hawks fans...I get it...the "fans" I have a problem with are those who weren't hawk fans or hockey fans in general who are now hawk fans because they were winning and it was/is the "IN" thing to do...
By the way... you are not a DIEHARD sox fan...if you were you would've still been watching them when they sucked...not only when they are going good...like you've just admitted on here.
I've been a Cubs fans since I was 2 years old so that makes it 51 years now and I watch them they've sucked(most of the time) and now when they are good...THAT is a diehard fan...not one who admits only watching when his or her favorite team is going good....in retospect now I see why you can't understand the concept of bandwagon fans and why you see nothing wrong with it...be well
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,085
21,411
Chicago 'Burbs
The person who has missed the point time and time again is...YOU...I'll say this one more time and then I'm done with this conversation...I know there are tons of diehard black hawks fans...I get it...the "fans" I have a problem with are those who weren't hawk fans or hockey fans in general who are now hawk fans because they were winning and it was/is the "IN" thing to do...
By the way... you are not a DIEHARD sox fan...if you were you would've still been watching them when they sucked...not only when they are going good...like you've just admitted on here.
I've been a Cubs fans since I was 2 years old so that makes it 51 years now and I watch them they've sucked(most of the time) and now when they are good...THAT is a diehard fan...not one who admits only watching when his or her favorite team is going good....in retospect now I see why you can't understand the concept of bandwagon fans and why you see nothing wrong with it...be well

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Because I watch very little of a VERY bad baseball team, I'm no longer a fan? Even though I said I watch very little, NOT none at all. I still rock my Sox gear, jerseys, hats, go to Sox-related events, and go buy tickets and go to a few games a year, no matter if the team is good or bad. But I'm not a fan? :huh: As I said... baseball is tough to watch as it is. Watching very bad baseball is next to impossible to tolerate. More power to you for being able to tolerate that trash for 52 years...

Read my edited response and take that advice at the bottom. Stop judging people who you don't know. Maybe the world would be a better place, overall.

Oh, I understand the concept of bandwagon fans, plenty well. So should you. Didn't like things related to the Hawks and their organization, and jumped ship to another team. Sound familiar? Sure sounds like someone who jumped on another team's bandwagon at some point, doesn't it? Wouldn't you be classified as a bandwagon fan at some point, by your own admission? :shakehead

I'll leave that little tidbit here again. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Yeah... no reason to talk to you anymore. We can definitely agree on that much. Now I'll get back to talking about my Hawks.
 
Last edited:

ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
3,578
Yeah, Bread Man is great and fun to watch, no question. I'd love to have him back if he doesn't work out in Columbus and we can afford him. It's just that as he made more money and became more secure, the effort diminished and it was very noticeable. That makes him a complementary player. He helps you in the regular season by putting up points and that's great because someone has to do it. In the playoffs, if he gives you anything, you take that as a bonus. So you need a Saad before a Panarin but ideally have both. Top 10 scorers usually aren't like this; that's why it was so frustrating to watch, but we say it all the time here, points are just numbers, they have to be taken in context.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
31,614
10,964
London, Ont.
He's not awful, but he's definitely a downgrade from Hjalmarsson, even though his cap hit is almost as high. If Hjalmarsson continues to decline or whatever, and Murphy develops into a great defenseman, then yeah, the trade will be worth it. But that depends on Murphy panning out, which will take time to see. Strictly speaking about next season, he's a downgrade.

So the defense last year, which resulted in a first-round ass-kicking, is even worse this year. That doesn't bode well.

Maybe it won't be. Maybe Hjalmarsson will regress, and Murphy will be better than he was in previous seasons. You never know what a different team/system can do for a player, especially Dmen.

And it was a terrible 4 games for the Hawks, I don't see how that is the team moving forward, and not the team that finished first in the conference for 82GP.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad