Speculation: Thoughts on Shero?

[Fire Shero*]

My family is very involved in the kidney foundation. As I am sure you know, there is a shortage of organs. I was enlisted at Upmc, Cleveland clinic and Johns Hopkins. The waiting lists are only increasing.

It came to the point where I was in contact with a "broker" in Vietnam to explore buying one because I could not find a match. It's illegal but it was coming down to death or buying one off the black market. What would you pick?

 

[Fire Shero*]

Til the end,

I don't want to sabotage this thread with unrelated hockey talk. Thanks for taking an interest though. I'm always willing to talk about it.

Go pens

Eff Shero...haga

 

[Til the End of Time]

Til the end,

I don't want to sabotage this thread with unrelated hockey talk. Thanks for taking an interest though. I'm always willing to talk about it.

Go pens

Eff Shero...haga

touche.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

I personally could care less if Glass stays or goes. He's easily replaceable. AHL players like Sill and Megna can more than likely provide more than Glass. I was just making a point that he does fulfill a purpose and is not being misused or overplayed considering his playing time per game. I do agree he's overpaid.

On the flip side, I will argue that Adams is a solid value at $600k and definitely has a relatively big, but unsung, role on the team that he fulfills very well and with much success.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Please read the post you quoted.

The players you are blaming for cap troubles are not bad players and fulfill their designated roles well. You don't see/understand this so you think they are wastes of cap space. Yes, Glass and Adams can't skate fast like Vitale or score goals like Sutter. That's not why they are here.

I would say only Dupuis and Glass are overpaid of the players you mentioned, however, these were fair deals at the time of signing.

Duper is not a legit top 6 winger.
Orpik is not a let top 4 Dman.
Gladams are not legit NHL players.

 

[KIRK]

Duper is not a legit top 6 winger.
Orpik is not a let top 4 Dman.
Gladams are not legit NHL players.

And?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Duper is not a legit top 6 winger.
Orpik is not a let top 4 Dman.
Gladams are not legit NHL players.

Duper while not great is a fine 3rd wheel on the first line. Yeah his production was down the first couple months but he has averaged a 61 point pace he last 2 years (regular season) and a tad more in the playoffs. Combine that with his forchecking and excellent defense he was and is a good fit on the 1st line and worth the money. The issue is will he be worth anything 3 years from now.

Orpik might not be top 4 here right now but he is definetly a top 4 league wide. He has lost a half step and i dont want him going forward but he always bring it in the playoffs and his cap number is reasonable (still would be nice to move it for a forward). Its not his fault there are good young players stuck behind him.

Gladams are NHLers but they just dont excell. As long as they are getting very limited EV minutes they are fine. Yeah we are paying Glass about 500K too much but the way they kill penalties i can handle at least one of them in the lineup because you cant have too many PKers. I think Sill is a better player but there nothing wrong with having him as depth.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Duper while not great is a fine 3rd wheel on the first line. Yeah his production was down the first couple months but he has averaged a 61 point pace he last 2 years (regular season) and a tad more in the playoffs. Combine that with his forchecking and excellent defense he was and is a good fit on the 1st line and worth the money. The issue is will he be worth anything 3 years from now.

Orpik might not be top 4 here right now but he is definetly a top 4 league wide. He has lost a half step and i dont want him going forward but he always bring it in the playoffs and his cap number is reasonable (still would be nice to move it for a forward). Its not his fault there are good young players stuck behind him.

Gladams are NHLers but they just dont excell. As long as they are getting very limited EV minutes they are fine. Yeah we are paying Glass about 500K too much but the way they kill penalties i can handle at least one of them in the lineup because you cant have too many PKers. I think Sill is a better player but there nothing wrong with having him as depth.

The bolded section on Orpik makes zero sense... how can he not be top four in a pool of 6-10 players but top four in a pool that is 29 times bigger?

Adams and Glass WOULD be fine if they were getting limited minutes and weren't dressed at the same time, the problem is that they are fixtures in the lineup and are handed (Adams at least) some pretty important minutes (even when limited) either protecting leads or getting odd shifts with Sid and Geno. When everyone is healthy, they're not depth, they're written into the lineup in ink.

Dupuis has been covered pretty well in a bunch of other threads (Has #9 called it a day?) that I don't feel like rehashing it.

 

[IcedCapp]

The bolded section on Orpik makes zero sense... how can he not be top four in a pool of 6-10 players but top four in a pool that is 29 times bigger?

Adams and Glass WOULD be fine if they were getting limited minutes and weren't dressed at the same time, the problem is that they are fixtures in the lineup and are handed (Adams at least) some pretty important minutes (even when limited) either protecting leads or getting odd shifts with Sid and Geno. When everyone is healthy, they're not depth, they're written into the lineup in ink.

Dupuis has been covered pretty well in a bunch of other threads (Has #9 called it a day?) that I don't feel like rehashing it.

"There are teams with worse defensive depth, which would make Orpik one of their 4-best defensemen"

 

[Winger for Hire]

"There are teams with worse defensive depth, which would make Orpik one of their 4-best defensemen"

Well, that makes sense. Reading comprehension and critical thinking this morning are failing me. I haven't had my required amount of caffeine yet... I'm sticking to that excuse.

Thanks, Capp, for clearing that up for me


My apologies to Ramzi on the Orpik comment... I stand by the others (for now) though.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Last night was a perfect example of what's wrong with this team. Great start, complete control of the game, playing dominant hockey. It was like man's against boys out there (Therrien). 2-0, we were gunning for more. Couldn't bury the third goal. Had chance after chance. Letang alone could have had a natural hat trick. Everything was under control.

Then, everything changed. Did we take the pedal off the metal? If so, why??? We don't play again until Friday. Did we go into 'prevent defense' mode? Again, why??? We seem to lack the killer instinct to put teams away. And I don't think pulling two points out of the fire like we always seem to do makes us better, because this team appears to have a false sense of security re: the shootout. They always have that to fall back on. But it's meaningless when the real games start to matter.

Offensively, we looked really dynamic early on. Well, the top six did anyway, because there's nobody else who can do anything offensively in the bottom six at the moment. And perhaps that's a huge part of this story. Look at Vancouver's lineup. It's bad. Really bad. Hank Sedin had a bad hand last night and wasn't even close to 100%. They have guys like Tom Sestito playing a third-line role. Yikes. Their fourth line plays 5 minutes a night. They basically play four defensemen. And this team came back strong against us?

Something's wrong. You watch this team and the end results never tell you the whole story, or very rarely do. Is this ALL on the coach? No, because the guy hiring and firing personnel has to take some of this heat, because he's not seeing the warning signs (or is choosing to ignore them).

After watching last night's game, how can anyone feel comfortable with this team heading towards the playoffs? And it's not like injuries can be the excuse anymore, because we were missing Martin, Bennett and Megna basically. Remember the joke about Bylsma's team looking more cohesive, more consistent with more injuries? Well, last night was the proof.

Right now, a first-round upset looks likely. It's the same ol', same ol' situation.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The bolded section on Orpik makes zero sense... how can he not be top four in a pool of 6-10 players but top four in a pool that is 29 times bigger?

Im saying he is top 4 quality on other teams, not league wide.

Adams and Glass WOULD be fine if they were getting limited minutes and weren't dressed at the same time, the problem is that they are fixtures in the lineup and are handed (Adams at least) some pretty important minutes (even when limited) either protecting leads or getting odd shifts with Sid and Geno. When everyone is healthy, they're not depth, they're written into the lineup in ink.

Which isnt their fault or problem. I was addressing them as players not how they are actually used.

Dupuis has been covered pretty well in a bunch of other threads (Has #9 called it a day?) that I don't feel like rehashing it.

Do whatever you want but he gets ***** on here a lot when he brings a lot to the table. Just because he is nto a prototype first liner doesnt mean he doesnt fit really well there for us.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Right now, a first-round upset looks likely. It's the same ol', same ol' situation

No it doesnt

 

[Winger for Hire]

Im saying he is top 4 quality on other teams, not league wide.



Which isnt their fault or problem. I was addressing them as players not how they are actually used.



Do whatever you want but he gets ***** on here a lot when he brings a lot to the table. Just because he is nto a prototype first liner doesnt mean he doesnt fit really well there for us.

I acknowledged my error on Brooksie, and can agree on you with that.

I never blamed Adams or Glass for being what they are. I'm blaming Shero and Coach Dink for signing and playing them.

Dupuis again isn't getting crap for being what he is (at least not from me). The complaints are how he's being used and the resources used to keep him here.... again Shero and Coach Dink.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I can't wait to hear what the Shero apologists will say once Orpik is re-signed.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I acknowledged my error on Brooksie, and can agree on you with that.

Yeah i saw that later, no worries.

I never blamed Adams or Glass for being what they are. I'm blaming Shero and Coach Dink for signing and playing them.

Ok, fair enough my post was in response of them no being NHL caliber.

Dupuis again isn't getting crap for being what he is (at least not from me). The complaints are how he's being used and the resources used to keep him here.... again Shero and Coach Dink.

Gotcha, again IMO there is nothing wrong with how he is used or the cap hit as long as he is producing at the pace he has the last couple years (which he obviously wasnt at the beginning of this year). But he was starting to actually show some life before the injury which is unfortunate since his D is such an asset there when he is producing.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I can't wait to hear what the Shero apologists will say once Orpik is re-signed.

But but but leadership! What about 'Good Orpik' in the playoffs, save for last year...oh, and the year before that.

We can't possibly survive without #44. He's essential!

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Duper while not great is a fine 3rd wheel on the first line. Yeah his production was down the first couple months but he has averaged a 61 point pace he last 2 years (regular season) and a tad more in the playoffs. Combine that with his forchecking and excellent defense he was and is a good fit on the 1st line and worth the money. The issue is will he be worth anything 3 years from now.

Orpik might not be top 4 here right now but he is definetly a top 4 league wide. He has lost a half step and i dont want him going forward but he always bring it in the playoffs and his cap number is reasonable (still would be nice to move it for a forward). Its not his fault there are good young players stuck behind him.

Gladams are NHLers but they just dont excell. As long as they are getting very limited EV minutes they are fine. Yeah we are paying Glass about 500K too much but the way they kill penalties i can handle at least one of them in the lineup because you cant have too many PKers. I think Sill is a better player but there nothing wrong with having him as depth.

1 - Duper had a two year surge in production playing with Sid and Staal, in his early 30s after a decade of 30-50 point seasons. Now he's in his mid 30s and signed till his late 30s. Everyone and their mother should have know it was too good to last.

And Duper is not a legit 3rd wheel. They get away with it in the reg season then get ****ed in the POs.

2 - Well if Orpik isn't a top4 here but would be on other teams what do you think Shero do?

3 - Gladams are taking time from better, cheaper, younger players who have much more potential.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

1 - Duper had a two year surge in production playing with Sid and Staal, in his early 30s after a decade of 30-50 point seasons. Now he's in his mid 30s and signed till his late 30s. Everyone and their mother should have know it was too good to last.

Well yeah im not saying he was going to stay at that level his entire contract but after this year his contract wont be a problem if he can be a 40 point 3rd liner.

And Duper is not a legit 3rd wheel. They get away with it in the reg season then get ****ed in the POs.

Last 2 years Dupuis has produced more ppg in the playoffs than the regular season. He is far, faaaar from the reason we have lost in the playoffs. But that doesn fit your agenda so...

2 - Well if Orpik isn't a top4 here but would be on other teams what do you think Shero do?

As i havesaid multiple time, even in this thread i think he should be traded. Not sure what your point is. Though its not the end of the world if he isnt considering he really does elevate his play in the playoffs.

3 - Gladams are taking time from better, cheaper, younger players who have much more potential.

Irrelevant to them being NHL caliber or not. They have a role and do it acceptably its not their fault they have been asked to do more than that recently.

 

[Will Hunting]

I guess it belongs in this thread (don´t know where else).

WHY ON THE EARTH IS KOBASEW STILL WITH THIS TEAM? Is Shero on drugs, or what? I don´t get it. Any explanation to the strange case of Chuck Kobasew?

 

[Fire Shero*]

I guess it belongs in this thread (don´t know where else).

WHY ON THE EARTH IS KOBASEW STILL WITH THIS TEAM? Is Shero on drugs, or what? I don´t get it. Any explanation to the strange case of Chuck Kobasew?

He's only 4 or 5 seasons removed from a 20 goal season. The floodgates will open any game!

The prototypical Shero winger. A cheap, has been that Shero actually thinks could reclaim his career. The abundance of **** players really sets us apart from the legit contenders.

Injuries or not, I hasn't seen this many useless scrubs on this team in over 10 years

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Well yeah im not saying he was going to stay at that level his entire contract but after this year his contract wont be a problem if he can be a 40 point 3rd liner.



Last 2 years Dupuis has produced more ppg in the playoffs than the regular season. He is far, faaaar from the reason we have lost in the playoffs. But that doesn fit your agenda so...



As i havesaid multiple time, even in this thread i think he should be traded. Not sure what your point is. Though its not the end of the world if he isnt considering he really does elevate his play in the playoffs.



Irrelevant to them being NHL caliber or not. They have a role and do it acceptably its not their fault they have been asked to do more than that recently.

This conversation is about the cap myth that keeps getting brought up.

Duper is not worth his contract IMO so that's 3.75M that should be put towards a top 6 winger.

Orpik has no place on this team with the addition of Scuds. That's another 3.75M that should go to a top 6 winger.

Gladams is not worth 1.7M to be fringe players.

That's over 7M that could go to a winger for Sid when you take out the salaries of Orpik and Gladams replacements.

 

[Fire Shero*]

This conversation is about the cap myth that keeps getting brought up.

Duper is not worth his contract IMO so that's 3.75M that should be put towards a top 6 winger.

Orpik has no place on this team with the addition of Scuds. That's another 3.75M that should go to a top 6 winger.

Gladams is not worth 1.7M to be fringe players.

That's over 7M that could go to a winger for Sid when you take out the salaries of Orpik and Gladams replacements.

But then we can't blame Shero's inability to bring in half decent wingers on the cap.

The guy creates the cap problems so he doesn't have to go out and actually sign a capable winger

We had all that cap space 2 seasons ago, we saw how well he put it to use.

The Scuderi signing was redundant. This team easily spends a quarter of the total cap on useless or unnecessary players. We have an abundance of dmen. Scuderi is old and stale, his best days are behind him. He wasn't a necessity, he was a luxury. If the rest of the team was solid, sign him. But you have no business signing him when Dupuis and Jokinen are playing in your top 6 when your lineup is healthy.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

This conversation is about the cap myth that keeps getting brought up.

Duper is not worth his contract IMO so that's 3.75M that should be put towards a top 6 winger.

Well for the last 2 years he has been producing like a capable first line winger and once the cap starts going back up, a lock down 3rd liner thak kills penalties and can score 40-50 pts will be well worth 3.75

Orpik has no place on this team with the addition of Scuds. That's another 3.75M that should go to a top 6 winger.

Orpik is just fine at his salary, i would trade him too but quit being ridiculous.

Gladams is not worth 1.7M to be fringe players.

Glass is a little overpaid but you'll have to replace them with other making at least 1.1 of that. They are only using up 600K extra between them.

That's over 7M that could go to a winger for Sid when you take out the salaries of Orpik and Gladams replacements

Its not like theirs a good FA winger out there this past offseason where that money should have gone. You would save very little with Gladams and what best case 3 with orpik. So dupuis drops down and you now have 3.5 (maybe for a winger). Not signing Dupuis would have been an error even if he is a tad expensive this year cap wise. If a big time 1st liner becomes available you can easily dump Glass/Adams/Orpik salaries through waivers or in Orpiks case for a pick or two.

 

[Will Hunting]

He's only 4 or 5 seasons removed from a 20 goal season. The floodgates will open any game!

The prototypical Shero winger. A cheap, has been that Shero actually thinks could reclaim his career. The abundance of **** players really sets us apart from the legit contenders.

Injuries or not, I hasn't seen this many useless scrubs on this team in over 10 years

Engelland, Glass, Adams, Kobasew, D´Agostini, Jeffrey, Pyatt, Conner etc.. We are quite lucky that at least Gibbons and Megna are showing some flashes because otherwise we would still be stacked with all of those useless scrubs (Presence of Megna & Gibbons, while not great, allowed us to get rid of Jeffrey and D´Agostini).

Let´s look at the Flyers, they are not a great team but they have depth. The only useless scrub there is Jay Rosehill and when they´re healthy, he´s their 13th forward. Rinaldo is debatable but at least he makes an impact. Huge difference right there between those two hockey teams. And I´m not even talking about the Blues, Bruins, Hawks etc.. We really need to address our bottom6, right now it´s a trainwreck.