Thoughts on First day of Free Agency and whats next

[viper0220]

I've only heard one unrealistic idea suggested here

I would like your post Mazatt but they took away my like button.

 

[Mobiandi]

The difference between Tanev and Brodie is not as big as the difference between Talbot and Markstrom

We've subtracted about 15-20 points from our team, lost a key member of our transition game, and downgraded defensively with Tanev and anticipated further Giordano regression. Markstrom's going to have his work cut out for him because unless we shore up our top 6, we're in for a frustrating season.

If moving Hanifin, Rittich, and Ryan is what's needed to secure someone like Hall or Dadonov or an aggressive offer sheet, so be it. Probably won't happen but status quo with this forward group is death

 

[Volica]

We've subtracted about 15-20 points from our team, lost a key member of our transition game, and downgraded defensively with Tanev and anticipated further Giordano regression. Markstrom's going to have his work cut out for him because unless we shore up our top 6, we're in for a frustrating season.

If moving Hanifin, Rittich, and Ryan is what's needed to secure someone like Hall or Dadonov or an aggressive offer sheet, so be it. Probably won't happen but status quo with this forward group is death

I disagree with your disagree.

1) People are forgetting because of that bubble play, our goaltending in a lot of ways was less than spectacular last season. We can point at Talbot having a decent SV%; but he was the backup for, what, 75% of the regular season last year. Our main starter posted a .907. Markstrom posted a 0.918 on a team that defensively was garbage. Vancouver, for the glitz and glam they're currently being given in the media, was a terrible possession team that got consistently outshot, outchanced... yet not scored upon as badly as the Flames were.

People are downplaying what having a Vezina-type goalie will mean to this franchise.

2) We're not simply subtracting 15-20 points moving from Brodie to Tanev. Because that's looking at this black and white. What you're clearly either brushing off, or simply not looking at, is ice time. Rasmus Andersson was the 5th lowest TOI player for Calgary last season. He's going to be #2 this season most likely. With the additional minutes, his production will increase. This is also a team that's not going to give Hamonic 21 minutes a night; partial of those minutes will be going to Tanev and Juuso Valimaki... someone we completely are forgetting about. That dude is currently tied for Points by a defender in a men's league overseas. As a 21-22 year old.

You can't look at is as:
Brodie -> Tanev

You have to look it as:
Brodie -> Andersson
Hamonic -> Tanev
Andersson -> Valimaki

That, to me, is an upgrade across the board.

3) If you're moving Hanifin, Rittich and Ryan so you can pick up Evgenii Dadonov in free agency, you should never be in the position to manage a hockey club.
There are no free agent forwards outside of the name Hall that move the needle in terms of actual change in the forward group. This is something that will need to be done by trade... and I think something that will happen. There's no need clear space just to sign a marginal (if at all) upgrade to our forward group. There's a reason guys like Hoffman, Dadonov or Toffoli make it to FA. It's because the value they bring to teams doesn't merit the contract they'll require.

In terms of the Offer sheet. I just don't buy it. It's essentially used as a means to an end on rare contract negotiations (example of Carolina unwilling to pay bonuses, so just get a team desperate to agree to do it). I'd love Matt Barzal as much as the next guy, but it's just not happening.

 

[Mobiandi]

I disagree with your disagree.

1) People are forgetting because of that bubble play, our goaltending in a lot of ways was less than spectacular last season. We can point at Talbot having a decent SV%; but he was the backup for, what, 75% of the regular season last year. Our main starter posted a .907. Markstrom posted a 0.918 on a team that defensively was garbage. Vancouver, for the glitz and glam they're currently being given in the media, was a terrible possession team that got consistently outshot, outchanced... yet not scored upon as badly as the Flames were.

People are downplaying what having a Vezina-type goalie will mean to this franchise.

Our goaltending sunk us against Dallas. Khudobin was bad. Somehow Talbot found a way to be worse. Every Flames fan knew how frustratingly good Markstrom has been for Vancouver. This isn't up for debate.

But just because he's used to seeing a lot of shots, doesn't mean it's a good thing that it'll continue here.

2) We're not simply subtracting 15-20 points moving from Brodie to Tanev. Because that's looking at this black and white. What you're clearly either brushing off, or simply not looking at, is ice time. Rasmus Andersson was the 5th lowest TOI player for Calgary last season. He's going to be #2 this season most likely. With the additional minutes, his production will increase. This is also a team that's not going to give Hamonic 21 minutes a night; partial of those minutes will be going to Tanev and Juuso Valimaki... someone we completely are forgetting about. That dude is currently tied for Points by a defender in a men's league overseas. As a 21-22 year old.

You can't look at is as:
Brodie -> Tanev

You have to look it as:
Brodie -> Andersson
Hamonic -> Tanev
Andersson -> Valimaki

That, to me, is an upgrade across the board.

It could be an upgrade. An 82-game season is a slog. Especially for youngsters who don't quite know yet how to pace themselves in the league and haven't been regularly facing top lines.

The honest truth is that Andersson isn't even in the same stratosphere yet as Brodie. Those are big shoes to fill. We're also in for some pain if those playoff Gio performances are anything to go by. It's also up for Valimaki to not be so completely out of his depth as he was in his first 15-20 games for us. You rag on Kylington a lot for lacking defensive awareness but early rookie Valimaki was f***ing horrific. Hopefully the adjustment period won't ve so bad this time as he gets back to game shape in Finland

I'm all for believing in the kids. It annoys me how much Treliving insists on overcooking our prospects, but it's silly to assume there won't be a lot of growing pains in our current situation.

3) If you're moving Hanifin, Rittich and Ryan so you can pick up Evgenii Dadonov in free agency, you should never be in the position to manage a hockey club.
There are no free agent forwards outside of the name Hall that move the needle in terms of actual change in the forward group. This is something that will need to be done by trade... and I think something that will happen. There's no need clear space just to sign a marginal (if at all) upgrade to our forward group. There's a reason guys like Hoffman, Dadonov or Toffoli make it to FA. It's because the value they bring to teams doesn't merit the contract they'll require.

In terms of the Offer sheet. I just don't buy it. It's essentially used as a means to an end on rare contract negotiations (example of Carolina unwilling to pay bonuses, so just get a team desperate to agree to do it). I'd love Matt Barzal as much as the next guy, but it's just not happening.

I'm not sure I'll convince you of Dadonov because I know you're a big Hanifin guy but I think the writing's on the wall there. Players don't take too kindly to hearing they've been on the block for a year - see Hamilton, Brodie. I'll be shocked if this guy is still here before the start of the new season.

After all this playoff disappointment, if we're not upgrading our top 6, what's the point really? I don't think we're in a position to turn our nose up at 0.8-0.9 PPG guys

 

[JPeeper]

The difference between Tanev and Brodie is not as big as the difference between Talbot and Markstrom

We'll see. Markstrom is a massive upgrade on Talbot (and Rittich), but Brodie is very underrated. I'm not on the Tanev hate train like some are already, I'll wait until he actually plays in our jersey before shitting on him.

 

[Siignal]

I still think we might wait a year and try to all-in on Barkov post-expansion draft. Hall short term may leave the Flames in a weird spot. Flames will end up having a good player go to Seattle. If Domingue is comparable to Rittich, give him a lesser contract as a backup, play Parsons/Wolf in the AHL, trade Ryan for a 7th, buy out Lucic.

 

[DFF]

After giving it some more thought, I think BT miscalculated.

Markstrom better be the next Hasek and Bennett/Dube better be even better than they were in the playoffs for the flames to go anywhere.

The roster is worse not better except goaltending

 

[Volica]

Our goaltending sunk us against Dallas. Khudobin was bad. Somehow Talbot found a way to be worse. Every Flames fan knew how frustratingly good Markstrom has been for Vancouver. This isn't up for debate.

But just because he's used to seeing a lot of shots, doesn't mean it's a good thing that it'll continue here.

I mean, you even said it here, Markstrom is the best goalie we've had in Flames colours since Kipper as long as he keeps up his play. It should be easier for him in Calgary, where while we're not a suffocating tight team, we're tighter than Vacouver.

It could be an upgrade. An 82-game season is a slog. Especially for youngsters who don't quite know yet how to pace themselves in the league and haven't been regularly facing top lines.

The honest truth is that Andersson isn't even in the same stratosphere yet as Brodie. Those are big shoes to fill. We're also in for some pain if those playoff Gio performances are anything to go by.

Disagree with Ras and Brodie not being comparable at this point already in their careers. That's with Brodie having more than half a decade more experience.

Because of the love affair with Brodie from this year, honestly it seems like everyone's forgetting that people wanted him fired into the sun away from Gio (and even at times with Gio). He's really only shown to be a tremendous D playing along with Gio, and the one season where he was carrying around the corpse of Engelland (with of course, unsustainable numbers like the entire team had).
Rasmus, in the past, has stepped into that D2 role with Gio; and there was no drop off of any sort. The big thing is that Rasmus also likely has another gear, where as Brodie's a finished product.

It's also up for Valimaki to not be so completely out of his depth as he was in his first 15-20 games for us. You rag on Kylington a lot for lacking defensive awareness but early rookie Valimaki was f***ing horrific. Hopefully the adjustment period won't ve so bad this time as he gets back to game shape in Finland

I'm all for believing in the kids. It annoys me how much Treliving insists on overcooking our prospects, but it's silly to assume there won't be a lot of growing pains in our current situation.

You are correct. Rookie 19 year old Valimaki had about the same amount of defensive awareness as 23 year old 5 year pro Oliver Kylington. But you're also forgetting those two games when we got smoked by the Avs that this kid looked like he was on another level. Something Oliver has yet to show at the NHL level.

There will definitely be growing pains, but that's why there are two Dmen in the top 4 that'll have 500+ games experience, and I wouldn't be surprised if another one is brought in to be the 6/7 for Calgary this year. Also, can we even consider Hanifin/Andersson as guys that'll have major growing pains still? It's essentially just Juuso and if Kylington can carve out a spot.

I'm not sure I'll convince you of Dadonov because I know you're a big Hanifin guy but I think the writing's on the wall there. Players don't take too kindly to hearing they've been on the block for a year - see Hamilton, Brodie. I'll be shocked if this guy is still here before the start of the new season.

After all this playoff disappointment, if we're not upgrading our top 6, what's the point really? I don't think we're in a position to turn our nose up at 0.8-0.9 PPG guys

I know about Dadonov. He's been quietly on my hockey fantasy team 3/3 seasons
I also know in Calgary we have NOTHING LIKE SASHA BARKOV to help this guy produce. We'll be putting in another one way forward to play alongside Mony and John again? Or we'll be bumping Mangi/Dube out of the top 6 so he can play with Matt Tkachuk?

I'm not a big Hanifin guy. I'm a huge valuable asset guy. You don't move 23 year olds who at worse are top 4D for cap savings and some wingers. If you move Noah and you can open yourself up for an upgrade to the 1C, sure. That's value. IF we're moving on from him so we can sign Dadonov, Brad Treliving deserves to be fired (and I know it's something he's not dopey enough to do).

I mentioned in my last post. I do think they need to upgrade the top 6 in terms of reshaping. I don't think anyone in free agency outside of Hall is worth reshaping the rest of the roster to accomodate.

 

[Kranix]

I think they need real help at forward, does anybody agree with me? But the kind of help I'm thinking of isn't available in FA or trades.
They've gotta play to their strengths, which is now goaltending and D (and some high skill forwards.) I guess they should pick up another mucker at F

 

[CraigsList]

I’m a little worried that we didn’t really fix up the offense, however, maybe we are giving them one more go.

It’s nice to have some stability in net though, Markstrom was a big signing. Tanev, assuming he’s healthy for the most part, got a fair deal. He’s always been better than Hamonic (imo) and he’ll allow Hanifin or Giordano to really engage in the offense.

 

[Body Checker]

I like our top 8 up front. Lucic is our only anchor there and it would be nice to add to the 3LW spot. I’ve already mentioned Namestnikov to be a perfect fit there. Nieto is another possibility; not as talented but has speed.

For top 9 I would leave the top line intact and let them figure it out. Also try a Tkachuk-Bennett-Mangi line. Backlund and Dube on 3rd line. Lucic needs to be demoted. I don’t care about the playoff play; in the regular season he is exposed badly.

Rucizka is a dark horse for 3LW. Cail Maclean called out him, Gawdin and Phillips as the guys trending towards the NHL.

 

[Sparky93]

I like our top 8 up front. Lucic is our only anchor there and it would be nice to add to the 3LW spot. I’ve already mentioned Namestnikov to be a perfect fit there. Nieto is another possibility; not as talented but has speed.

For top 9 I would leave the top line intact and let them figure it out. Also try a Tkachuk-Bennett-Mangi line. Backlund and Dube on 3rd line. Lucic needs to be demoted. I don’t care about the playoff play; in the regular season he is exposed badly.

Rucizka is a dark horse for 3LW. Cail Maclean called out him, Gawdin and Phillips as the guys trending towards the NHL.

Isn't it weird that you care about the playoffs so much, that you'd pencil in "12 point" Sam Bennett as 2C, but want to demote Lucic? Scott Laughton had a great playoffs too, but no one is talking about him as a 2C.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

It’s really to bad we didn’t get Stone. He’s exactly what we need.

 

[Body Checker]

Isn't it weird that you care about the playoffs so much, that you'd pencil in "12 point" Sam Bennett as 2C, but want to demote Lucic? Scott Laughton had a great playoffs too, but no one is talking about him as a 2C.

no don’t think it’s weird

 

[Fire Treliving]

1. Markstrom = a great signing, finally we have a #1 goaltender.
2. Tanev = eh. Decent player but I am not a fan of the contract.

As for what's next... I sincerely hope there is a big shakeup with the forward core. Otherwise what the hell are we doing. Colorado, Winnipeg, and Dallas have shown that this current top 6 cannot get it done in the playoffs. If we do nothing, we are just going to be stuck in mediocrity. Not bad enough for a top pick but not good enough to be a legit playoff threat.

So far, I'd probably give us a B+. If we do nothing with the top 6, it will quickly become a D.

 

[TheHudlinator]

We haven't made a panic trade, we signed a number 1 goalie, and got a top 4 defenseman. I feel like we have addressed our needs and didn't sign a washed up Neal or Brouwer type player so I'm happy.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

It’s really to bad we didn’t get Stone. He’s exactly what we need.

Except for gutting the D, sure.

 

[djpatm]

After giving it some more thought, I think BT miscalculated.

Markstrom better be the next Hasek and Bennett/Dube better be even better than they were in the playoffs for the flames to go anywhere.

The roster is worse not better except goaltending

He isn't done. If we go in to the season without an upgrade in the top 6 the Treliving needs to go. This is getting ridiculous.

Also, swapping Hall for Gaudreau is a downgrade as I doubt we get nearly as much selling Gaudreau at his lowest value since he entered the league as some people think. I think we trade Hanafin and Ryan and make room for Hall. Roll with Kylington, Valimaki and an extra D. I think Kylington deserves a chance.

 

[Mazatt]

I think we are getting WAY too caught up on the idea we need a top flight forward for this team to go anywhere in the regular season. We've had one down year of Johnny and Monny and suddenly they aren't the same players who have dragged this club to successive post seasons? Our issues the past few years have always been depth scoring and goaltending. Just through natural progression of our farm our depth is improving, we are at a point where we could reasonably graduate three different Stockton guys and not question it. Ryan is still a horse and Dube is someone we are seeing grow. Bennett is filling a hole at C somewhat still which is nice, and Lucic isn't a black hole. Plus we have Mangiapane. If Gaudreau even barely plays like he did before this last season we are laughing about ever considering trading out depth for Hall.

We have a play driver outside of Gaudreau now in Tkachuk which is better than we've had in so many years, and I feel Ward has it in him to change our offensive straegy from 'feed Gaudreau and say f*** it' to using both lines effectively. If Lucic - Bennett - Dube can score at a semi-ok rate, that takes immense pressure off of Monahan and Gaudreau to do everything on this team as they've been accustomed to. Even if it's sub-par defense, allowing Monahan and Backlund's lines to not be the go to "clutch sitaution" line every single game could be huge in the long run.


Defensively, Tanev brings a strong defensive game which can off-set that. I love Brodie and know there is a big difference between them offensively but we need a guy who can kill penalties and be trusted with big minutes. Plus Giordano could be better than any of his past partners sans Hughes. Markstrom as well is a huge addition.

I just feel like adding a big offensive piece isn't actually super necessary.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Markstrom better be the next Hasek and Bennett/Dube better be even better than they were in the playoffs for the flames to go anywhere.

If Bennett and Dube can be just as good, but have twice the icetime, it would go a long way.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I really hope Bennett gets a look at 1C next season. For the love of God, just try Monahan and Gaudreau on separate lines.

 

[Blowfish]

Surprised not many are concerned losing Brodie? Why is that?

 

[Khrox]

Surprised not many are concerned losing Brodie? Why is that?

He had a lot of ups and downs during his tenure here, and as good as he is, and as much as we'll miss him, we managed to replace a lot of what was lost. We lost Brodie, but we did gain Tanev (Brodie IS better, but it is still fairly close), we also brought in Nesterov (while he was average in his previous stint in the NHL, his 3 years in the KHL he has grown a lot, including being the team captain for Russia on their gold medal olympic team, and winning a Gagarin cup, before becoming captain of his KHL team). Combine that with the fact that without Brodie, we actually get to see Rasmus Andersson grow into that top pairing RD we expect him to be (and he's shown a lot of growth there), it's not nearly as much of a loss as it would have been if this happened last year.

 

[Blowfish]

He had a lot of ups and downs during his tenure here, and as good as he is, and as much as we'll miss him, we managed to replace a lot of what was lost. We lost Brodie, but we did gain Tanev (Brodie IS better, but it is still fairly close), we also brought in Nesterov (while he was average in his previous stint in the NHL, his 3 years in the KHL he has grown a lot, including being the team captain for Russia on their gold medal olympic team, and winning a Gagarin cup, before becoming captain of his KHL team). Combine that with the fact that without Brodie, we actually get to see Rasmus Andersson grow into that top pairing RD we expect him to be (and he's shown a lot of growth there), it's not nearly as much of a loss as it would have been if this happened last year.

Has Brodie's play declined with age (i.e. speed, play making, D)?

 

[User1996]

Surprised not many are concerned losing Brodie? Why is that?

I think plenty are worried about losing Brodie to be quite honest. Although, it was widely expected that he would be leaving the majority of Flames fans were holding out hope a deal would get done.

I think having Andersson and Tanev now will help soften the blow (Andersson could fill Brodie’s spot at least sufficiently, and Tanev should be an upgrade on Hamonic). Valimaki is also expected to do big things.

Long story short, I think the only way the D-core is much less effective than last year is if Giordano plays like he did in the playoffs, not because we lost Brodie. That may explain why posters seem alright with him leaving, despite the overwhelming desire for him to stay.