Not really. He was our best D in the playoffs for the most part. The biggest knocks on Brodie is the fact that he just seems to randomly start making complete air-head plays. It's like 5 minutes out of every 60, he just forgets to play hockey, but the other 55 minutes out of that 60, he'll be an absolute beast. The other big knock is that despite being a leftie, he really can't play the left side (and some coaches just seem to insist that lefties play the left side if they have enough righties). I think the only time he looked good on the left side in recent years was that year Gio went down with a season ending injury (2015 I think?) where he ended up playing next to Engelland.
Thoughts on First day of Free Agency and whats next
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Not really. He was our best D in the playoffs for the most part. The biggest knocks on Brodie is the fact that he just seems to randomly start making complete air-head plays. It's like 5 minutes out of every 60, he just forgets to play hockey, but the other 55 minutes out of that 60, he'll be an absolute beast. The other big knock is that despite being a leftie, he really can't play the left side (and some coaches just seem to insist that lefties play the left side if they have enough righties). I think the only time he looked good on the left side in recent years was that year Gio went down with a season ending injury (2015 I think?) where he ended up playing next to Engelland.
Fig
Absolute Horse Shirt
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That's not quite true... Plenty of us here missed him. We just didn't express it in this or many other threads.
TJ Appreciation Thread
TJ wasn't put in a situation to succeed for quite a few years under Gulutzan to the point some started calling him TJ Jabroni for the horrific gaffes. It wasn't for a while until we realized he was having a horrific time with Stone and Hamonic.
The lefty/righty thing I don't totally buy even though TJ has gone on interview saying he's more comfortable at RD. He was still damn good on the left with Engelland that one year and to Engelland's merit, he rose to the occasion.
He was good with Stone when we first acquired him, but in hindsight, Stone's body suddenly broke down within a few months of acquiring him. Stone went from a 4/5 dman with sandpaper to suddenly a 7/8 and both guys looked bad.
Hamonic was similar, neither Brodie nor Hanifin clicked with him. Hamonic was basically bottom pairing calibre by the end whether it was injuries, miscast or whatever that caused it, I don't know.
Pair TJ with at least a 4/5 dman and expect good things. Pair him with a legit top 4, great things. Pair him with a bottom pairing or less? Horrific.
TJ easily still has a very good 3-4 seasons in him. He will still have quite a few good/decent seasons after that.
Kranix
Deranged Homer
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Because when gained possession of the puck it was 50/50 he passed it to the other team.
Deen
Registered User
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Getting Markstrom and Tanev was such a boon. You're supposed to build your team from the net out, we've been trying to do it from the front back. Losing Brodie isn't really a big deal, I fully expect Valimaki to fill those shoes. I think recency bias has a lot of people forgetting what a #1 goaltender can do for you and Markstrom is every bit of that.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
We are going to sorely miss Brodie. I agree with the idea though that the progression of our young D will lessen the blow, though.
DFF
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CraigsList
In Conroy We Trust
For me it's just the chemistry he had with Giordano. Their chemistry really calmed us Flames fans whenever they were on the ice. Brodie brought the best out of Giordano, and vice versa Giordano to Brodie. Andersson has shown some chemistry with Giordano, but not to the extent of what "Brodano" did together. Hoping Tanev can mesh well with Giordano and allow Gio to focus on his offensive game a little more so that Andersson and Hanifin can continue to develop their chemistry. They were looking like our best pairing during the playoffs. All this and not even mentioning Valimaki, who looks to be off to a great start in Liiga.
GumbyCan2
Registered User
Because of limited cap space, taking on Tanev's new contract is using alot of it. But...Tanev is a very solid, underrated, minute crunching Dman. Valuable type of player for any Cup challenging team. He improves the defensive side of losing Brodie. As long as Tanev remains healthy most of season and definitely for playoffs, he will be solid on the defensive side.
This may be a plus in Ward can employ a couple of our younger Dmen to jump up in the play, developing offensive side from the backend. Flames need this in their arsenal to improve and be more successful.
Kylington for one, has a strong puck-carrying past and is a strong, fast skater who needs to be allowed to apply these parts of his game, to be successful.
Kylington's past experiences I believe he was not put into familiar roles of carrying the play and QB'ing Pply. Pairing with experienced, steady, solid Tanev, a Kylington or Valimaki could be comfortable and gain confidence bringing their offensive-side to the forefront, when applicable.
And, Tanev is an upgrade on Hamonic overall.
Plus, Tanev and our new starting Goalie have chemistry and commonality, familiarity with each other on the ice ( and off). A real positive in both beginning a new era on a new team, new organization and new city. Intangibles that cannot be easily sought out but can be invaluable to the new start. Another positive is both Tanev and Markstrom were very involved in Vancouver Canucks strong run in the Playoffs this past summer, and gained the experience of playing big in important games and the drive, desire to exceed and excell toward the 'holy grail of NHL hockey'. These can only help the Flames push forward to improving, more so, I M O, than the possible negatives of both Tanev and Markstrom's cap hits. On paper, Flames should definitely be improved on the 'backend' with Markstrom and Tanev while opening a spot or 2 up for Valimaki and Kylington to step up, over Talbot and Hamonic, and Brodie ( who chose to move on in FA). Yes, we will miss Brodie but times a change and Valimaki/ Kylington can hopefully makeup for loss of Brodie's good points.
GumbyCan2
Registered User
I get it on Brodie and Giordano complimented themselves in chemistry and play. Will be missed.
Something new to look forward to is actual successful chemistry with our new goalie and experienced Dman. Tanev is experienced enough to mentor younger players and fit with new players. He can help take some pressure, tough minutes away from "aged" and declining Captain Gio. Never really had that materialize with Brodie or Hamonic, when Gio was "off" or injured. Markstrom is right in the prime of his best play. Having continued chemistry with Tanev in starting new on the Flames together should bring new hope in not missing "who is gone".
Be positive Flames nation.
( I know it would be even more positive with adding Taylor Hall!)
GumbyCan2
Registered User
We've subtracted about 15-20 points from our team, lost a key member of our transition game, and downgraded defensively with Tanev and anticipated further Giordano regression. Markstrom's going to have his work cut out for him because unless we shore up our top 6, we're in for a frustrating season.
If moving Hanifin, Rittich, and Ryan is what's needed to secure someone like Hall or Dadonov or an aggressive offer sheet, so be it. Probably won't happen but status quo with this forward group is death
I don't agree with take on Tanev is a downgrade Defensively. Yes, Tanev is not a great transitional puck carrier or play driver. He is very solid in 1st passes out of our own zone. He plays a good gap game in neutral zone and is strong on the boards in holding the line in O-zone. He is solid in shot-blocking, and net-front covering. Not much of those parts of the game were way better in Brodie. Now Valimaki and Kylington can hopefully pick up and grow in bringing strong transitional play.
Also allows Hanifin to step up in this department, if he is capable?
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Mazatt
Registered User
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We are definitely looking at a much slower d-core. Giordano isn't getting faster, Andersson and Tanev aren't fast. Hanifin has great edge work but doesn't wow with speed. Kylington might just play a big part in being able to match up against faster forwards if he shows he's grown enough to play consistent minutes.
GumbyCan2
Registered User
Actually T.O. may notice alot of similarities to Jake Gardiner. LHS shot plays right side mostly. Good skater with some decent play-carrying abilities and passing. But then prone to huge guffaws and giveaways in his own end. Needs good partner and good goaltending to help him look better, overall. Good luck in T.O. TJ!
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
I'm expecting Tanev to be what an effective version of Hamonic would've been.
DFF
Registered User
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People forget, many times the Flames couldn't play defense to save their life.
It can't get any worse even without brodie
My bet is they will be better with a better goalie, Tanev and valimaki can be better than brodie and Hamonic, and a new and improved 4th line.
Brad needs to do something with the 1st line still and yes Bennett is not the solution to 1C
It can't get any worse even without brodie
My bet is they will be better with a better goalie, Tanev and valimaki can be better than brodie and Hamonic, and a new and improved 4th line.
Brad needs to do something with the 1st line still and yes Bennett is not the solution to 1C
Volica
Papa Shango
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Chatting with my friend today, it appears Brodie was never significantly in the plans of this organization moving forward.
For us fans, who have very limited data in reality (NHL teams are playing with metrics that make our local "Corsi" Wizards look like toddlers in college), TJ Brodie I guess was one of those guys that while the metrics we can use, shows him as a solid foundational piece, in terms of team tracking he didn't move the needle in terms of positive game play.
I think Treliving mentioned it a while back, where Calgary often tracks an individual players performance throughout the game and what they do to impact the game positively with their play. They track and score some crazy things (like things we don't even remotely have access to unless we were scoring it at home, things like cycle breakup stats, gap control metrics, even shit like icing metrics) that apparently had Brodie as a fairly even contributor for Calgary. Not saying Brodie was replacement level, but in terms of forking over a 20 million dollar contract over the next four years when there's a very distinct possibility this team is completely rebranded in 2; it just didn't make sense.
Here are some crazy stats that no one probably was tracking before I mentioned this (my buddy pointed out).
- Rasmus Andersson has the best +/- in the league in terms of forcing icings against the other team. Essentially when Ras is out there, teams are forced to ice the puck a lot more; which leads to more favourable matchups.
- The Flames were just outside the bottom 10 of defensive zone turnovers.
- Rasmus Andersson had the lowest defensive zone turnover rate in the NHL for any D-man playing more than 500 minutes. In fact his defensive zone metrics are comparable to guys that you would really not imagine.
- TJ Brodie was in the dreaded bottom zone in terms of defensive zone turnovers. This is due to having the puck a lot, this is also due to him not being a great defender under pressure.
- In the playoffs, Calgary were a bottom 10 team in overall giveaways. Which is a really damning statistic; considering 8 teams got to play at least 4 more games than Calgary.
Now, a guy like Hanifin is also in that Brodie zone; there's feel in the management group that he could grow into something a bit more round... but TJ is what he is as a 30 year old.
There's thoughts that Tanev will improve the PK for Calgary, something Brodie never really flourished with, while also improving the below-the-blueline stats.
Dunno. I thought TJ was solid in Calgary, but I don't think he's a player that can't be replaced internally.
But, folks can flame away at some of the post here with the same metrics we're used to seeing. I'm just saying the Flames are using analytics we're not tracking.
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
Super interesting, thanks for sharing! Andersson is a stud, I am in the group that thinks he will bring out the best in Hanifin this year and along with Valimaki and Kylington, we will have one of the best young d-cores in the NHL.
Mazatt
Registered User
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A very basic perspective on what Volica said is something I got told when playing: when assessing if you've had a good night or not, what did the team do directly after the puck left your stick? We can point to TJ's breakouts and he helped but when you balance that with the turnovers and how dangerous they were, I think it makes sense that the stats see him as an even contributor.
Conversely, Andersson is smart and we all remember the game tying goal agianst Buffalo (?) where he held the line twice and made a smart pass over to Gaudreau and we ended up going to OT late. He plays a smart style and those pinches force teams to turn it over/ice it. Not something I thought of until it's mentioned but it's neat to see that and immediately be able to think of how it can be applied in judging a player just off eye-test stuff.
Conversely, Andersson is smart and we all remember the game tying goal agianst Buffalo (?) where he held the line twice and made a smart pass over to Gaudreau and we ended up going to OT late. He plays a smart style and those pinches force teams to turn it over/ice it. Not something I thought of until it's mentioned but it's neat to see that and immediately be able to think of how it can be applied in judging a player just off eye-test stuff.
I've been on the Phat Ras train since Day 1. But the fact that he is blowing away my expectations is great too.
Kranix
Deranged Homer
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These are good metrics. Way more informative than the stuff that people throw down as their trump cards in debates on HF.
It would be great to see what teams have scored for star offensive players where their surface level stuff that fans use says they're "bad defensively"
Volica
Papa Shango
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I honestly think it's just much more telling.
We have people around here that'll throw some xGF% or cherry picked stats and be like "see, idiot"; meanwhile NHL teams are tracking data at much higher levels than we can.
Like when's the last time we were like
"Wow, that forced icing when the second pairing was out on the previous shift, had Calgary pick up 4 shots in the offensive zone for the 1st line and 1st pairing; and then later in the game that cycle break-up and clean outlet pass made by our third pairing defender out of his zone that resulted in 3 shots in sustained pressure on the other end for the second pairing and third line was a great move!"
We literally open up naturalstattrick and see that our #5 defender had a CF% of 47 and we're like, man, tough game.
Kranix
Deranged Homer
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I always wanted to see these, because the heat maps and Shots/GA etc don't tell me where Player X was, or what he did, or what his teammates did after he made the defensive play, or what the attacking player was trying to do
With some of the players we’ve signed in FA I’m a little skeptical. I’m sure virtually all of the teams in the nhl have access to better data than any of us joe blows, doesn’t mean they all make smart decisions with that data.
Call me a major skeptic on that Tanev deal vs the Brodie contract.
