THN's NEW prospect report (Toronto)

[darrylsittler27]

Excuse me...

WTF has Reilly/Gards done to be even considered close to the Avs players i have mentioned ? You really have to stop with this victim mentally too many Leaf fans seem to have developed .

But Reilly is a 19 year old Dman who anyone can see has pure ,raw skill which is developing. He is better(future) than anything Colorado has on defense. You must be blind, as Dmen take longer and he is already having an impact.The last time I saw a guy like him was Coffey. Forwards look better faster but few teams have a Dman who will do what Reilly will.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

That's not altogether true. Kessel and JVR are two of the most talented and dominant forwards in the NHL, and Kadri is no slouch either. McKinnon looks like a Superstar in the making, but Kessel already is one. In case anyone hasn't been paying attention, he's 2nd in the NHL in scoring right now, and only Stamkos, Ovechkin and Perry have scored more than him the last three years.

I'd say overall their forwards DO have an edge over ours, but it is pretty close. And our young D simply have much higher ceilings than theirs.

Fair enough. I like our forwards but when I watch Colorado's bunch they seem more mature even do they are younger. We do have an edge on them when it comes to defenders.

And perhaps our forwards will grow in to 2-way players, would not be the first time that happened but that will lower their offensive numbers, most likely.

 

[Ryan52]

You're not missing anything, THN doesn't have a clue.

and the 17 gms they talked to dont either?

 

[hotpaws]

But Reilly is a 19 year old Dman who anyone can see has pure ,raw skill which is developing. He is better(future) than anything Colorado has on defense. You must be blind, as Dmen take longer and he is already having an impact.The last time I saw a guy like him was Coffey. Forwards look better faster but few teams have a Dman who will do what Reilly will.

I didn't say he didn't have higher upside than any Avs D , i said he hasn't accomplished anything of significance as of yet to be compared to the Avs players we were discussing .

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

and the 17 gms they talked to dont either?

What do GM´s really know? This is the last 5 Norris winners and the runner up each year. If the GM´s where so good at evaluating talent then should not these guys have all been 1st rounders if not top 5 picks?

2013 Norris winner Subban 43rd overall
runner up Suter 7th overall

2012 Norris winner Karlsson 15th overall
runner up Weber 49th overall

2011 Norris winner Lidstrom 53rd overall
runner up Weber 49th overall

2010 Norris winner Keith 54th overall
runner up Green 29th overall

2009 Norris winner Chara 56th overall
runner up Green 29th overall

 

[darrylsittler27]

Give it time...

I didn't say he didn't have higher upside than any Avs D , i said he hasn't accomplished anything of significance as of yet to be compared to the Avs players we were discussing .

And he will be mentioned in the same breath as McKinnon,kinda.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You are only as good as your scouts.

Half these guys I have never heard of. But compared to some teams, we have a lot of them.

Steve Kasper Director, Professional Scouting
Dave Morrison Director, Amateur Scouting
Mike Penny Pro Scout
Tom Watt Pro Scout
Rob Cowie Pro Scout
Mike Palmateer Amateur Scout
George Armstrong Amateur Scout
John Lilley Amateur Scout
Garth Malarchuk Amateur Scout
Alan Power Amateur Scout
Gary Harker Amateur Scout
Scott Carter Amateur Scout
Pierre Rioux Amateur Scout
Roy Stasiuk Amateur Scout
John McMorrow Amateur Scout
Darryl Stanley Amateur Scout
Bud Stefanski Amateur Scout
Dave Shyiak Amateur Scout
Pat Dapuzzo Amateur Scout
Joe Gibbs European Scout
Thommie Bergman European Scout
Jari Gronstrand European Scout
Peter Ihnacak European Scout
Nikolai Ladygin European Scout

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

You are only as good as your scouts.

Half these guys I have never heard of. But compared to some teams, we have a lot of them.


Nikolai Ladygin European Scout

Apparently only one Russian picked since Nikolai joined us and that is Kulemin. He should be allowed to make more suggestions.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Apparently only one Russian picked since Nikolai joined us and that is Kulemin. He should be allowed to make more suggestions.

For what its worth, it was mentioned to me by someone that knows scouting, perhaps, some of the scouts on our payroll were favours induced.

IMO, I think we should look into streamlining our scouts, quality over quantity.

Morrison has a lot of people talking in his ears. Perhaps too many, a lot of people give Morrison flak, but he is a respected guy to his peers from what I was told.

 

[Cotton]

and the 17 gms they talked to dont either?

It's actually 17 NHL scouts, along with some GM's.

And to everyone complaining, over half the league base their draft, in part, around the info and advice of the guy's providing this info to THN. Whine if you must, but I'd take a stab they know far more then anyone posting, so Percy below MacWilliam? perhaps their top 10 is based around ceiling, for all we know MacWilliam is more likely to reach top-4 shutdown guy then Percy is a top-4 two-way guy in their eyes, perhaps MacW is closer to being NHL ready which gives him the edge on Morrison's list, who knows.

I watch the Marlies too, and i'm not against MacW being higher on the list then Percy, though Biggs did strike me as odd. McKegg above Leivo too.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Apparently only one Russian picked since Nikolai joined us and that is Kulemin. He should be allowed to make more suggestions.

Burke pretty much put an embargo on the Europeans in the draft. Bergmann was aloud take his token Swede, But that's it really.

It'll be interesting to see this year with a few Russians projected in the 1st round this draft.

 

[Cotton]

I didn't say he didn't have higher upside than any Avs D , i said he hasn't accomplished anything of significance as of yet to be compared to the Avs players we were discussing .

To be fair though, beyond Landskog's Calder, none of them have accomplished anything, and it becomes more a matter of personal preference. I personally wouldn't give up Rielly for any one of Colorado's players, MacKinnon included, and that's just me.

 

[zeke]

Fair enough. I like our forwards but when I watch Colorado's bunch they seem more mature even do they are younger. We do have an edge on them when it comes to defenders.

And perhaps our forwards will grow in to 2-way players, would not be the first time that happened but that will lower their offensive numbers, most likely.

Not really sure where all this defensive rep is coming from for Colorado - they're a middling (GAA) to poor (SHA) defensive team. No reason to give them credit for being anything special defensively.


Core players, last 2yrs:


C M.Duchene (22, #3): 108gms, 37gls, 102pts, 19:58 (82gms, 28gls, 77pts)
C N.Kadri (23, #7): 109gms, 35gls, 88pts, 17:01 (82gms, 26gls, 66pts)

W N.MacKin (18, #1): 64gms, 22gls, 51pts, 17:35 (82gms, 28gls, 65pts)
W P.Kessel (26, #5): 113gms, 53gls, 122pts, 20:13 (82gms, 39gls, 89pts)

W P.P'teau (30, #264): 100gms, 32gls, 76pts, 18:09 (82gms, 26gls, 62pts)
W J.Lupul (30, #7): 72gms, 30gls, 56pts, 18:02 (82gms, 34gls, 64pts)


C P.Stastny (28, #44): 98gms, 29gls, 71pts, 18:33 (82gms, 24gls, 59pts)
C T.Bozak (27, UFA): 87gms, 26gls, 65pts, 20:35 (82gms, 25gls, 61pts)

W R.O'Reilly (22, #33): 91gms, 30gls, 71pts, 20:12 (82gms, 27gls, 64pts)
W J.VanRyk (24, #2): 111gms, 44gls, 84pts, 19:58 (82gms, 33gls, 62pts)

W G.Landeskog (21, #2): 99gms, 28gls, 69pts, 18:48 (82gms, 23gls, 57pts)
W ------



D E.Johnson (25, #1): 93gms, 8gls, 34pts, 23:00 (82gms, 7gls, 30pts)
D D.Phaneuf (28, #9): 111gms, 15gls, 53pts, 24:41 (82gms, 11gls, 39pts)

D T.Barrie (22, #64): 79gms, 11gls, 39pts, 20:07 (82gms, 11gls, 41pts)
D J.Gardiner (23, #17): 75gms, 6gls, 22pts, 20:51 (82gms, 7gls, 24pts)

D --------
D M.Rielly (19, #5): 56gms, 2gls, 21pts, 17:42 (82gms, 3gls, 31pts)



G S.Varlamov (25, #23): 85gms, 2.69gaa, 4so, .916sv%
G J.Bernier (25, #11): 62gms, 2.48gaa, 2so, .924sv%

G -----
G J.Reimer (25, #99): 58gms, 2.73gaa, 5so, .919sv%

 

[Incetardis]

How is Connor Brown not considered a top 75 prospect when he's leading the OHL in points? Is there really 75 guys projected to be better pros out there? Seems unlikely

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

How is Connor Brown not considered a top 75 prospect when he's leading the OHL in points? Is there really 75 guys projected to be better pros out there? Seems unlikely

Go look up to the top 10 OHL scorers in previous years and see how many turned out to be regular NHLers, let alone top 6 forwards. Brown isn't especially big and scouts seem concerned about his skating - small, slow scoring forwards rarely have long NHL careers.

 

[Trainspotter]

It's actually 17 NHL scouts, along with some GM's.

And to everyone complaining, over half the league base their draft, in part, around the info and advice of the guy's providing this info to THN.

We don't know who gave what information about which prospects. I can give you an opinion on whether to amputate your foot or not, but that doesn't make me a doctor.

 

[Trainspotter]

Its hard to close the competitiveness gap on teams with a prospect pool ranked near the bottom.

Good thing the team is already more competitive than nearly 2/3 of the league then, eh?

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Not really sure where all this defensive rep is coming from for Colorado - they're a middling (GAA) to poor (SHA) defensive team. No reason to give them credit for being anything special defensively.

Landeskog is already a solid 2-way winger and he is only 21, O´Reilly is a solid 2-way forward, Duchene is at least not weak defensively, both only 23.

Compare that to our youngest top forwards Kadri (23) and JVR (24) they can get lost when required to defend. I dont know if one wants to call Kessel young any more but his lack of 2-way play, even do it have improved, is far from good.

 

[Cotton]

We don't know who gave what information about which prospects. I can give you an opinion on whether to amputate your foot or not, but that doesn't make me a doctor.

Morrison is the head of amateur scouting for the Leafs, he's familiar with all of our prospects and he's the one to provide the Leafs info to THN, the others NHL Scouts are all actually listed, I just didn't feel the need to list each teams contributing scout. These are drafted players mind you, at the upcoming draft Nonis will be presented with the findings and opinions of his scouting team, some scout exclusively in Sweden, others in Russia and so on, they'll all have a say about the prospects within the geographic area they are in charge of scouting.

At the pre-draft meeting they will figure out who best fits the mold of the direction the Leafs are going vs what said prospect brings, his ceiling, what our needs are as a team and his availability to us. Once said prospect is actually drafted and we can get a more comprehensive look at what we have, then he's rated and ranked within our own system. It isn't our Swedish scout providing his opinions of Johnson to THN, it's Morrison who already knows what Johnson's been up to, and can rate him vs our other prospects.

If your argument is NHL scout vs Internet poster in reference to who knows more about evaluating NHL prospects then you are fighting an uphill battle my friend.

 

[Mowerman]

To be fair though, beyond Landskog's Calder, none of them have accomplished anything, and it becomes more a matter of personal preference. I personally wouldn't give up Rielly for any one of Colorado's players, MacKinnon included, and that's just me.

Ridiculous. Do you even watch the Avs? Did you miss the last few nhl seasons and the Olympics or something?

 

[Mowerman]

Not really sure where all this defensive rep is coming from for Colorado - they're a middling (GAA) to poor (SHA) defensive team. No reason to give them credit for being anything special defensively.

That's certainly not a knock on the forward core. That's a knock on the defensive core. The Avs players/core are younger and have had more success. The only player on Toronto I would not trade in a heartbeat for one of Colorado's main three is Kessel.

Landeskog will be better than JVR. All of the offensive tools are at the same level but JVR looks buttery soft compared to Landy.

Duchene is and will be better than Kadri (he has already proven that he is a franchise number one centre).

MacKinnon looks like a franchise #1 centre.

RoR is a defensively superb forward that can play wing and centre and produce as a top 6 player. I'm not as keen on him as the other fans seem to be though.

I watch every Leafs and Avs game I can. Colorado's core is insane if they can add a few more defencemen to it. The west is scary.

 

[Cotton]

Ridiculous. Do you even watch the Avs? Did you miss the last few nhl seasons and the Olympics or something?

Seeing as we're in a Leafs thread, what do you think? Who is it you watch?

Morgan Rielly would be sporting a gold medal too if he was on that team, Duchane wasn't a force by any means. And the other Ave's Olympians are in the Kulemin category, as in they didn't win gold so nobody gives a ****.

The "last few NHL seasons" they've accomplished missing the playoffs and tanking enough to draft Landskog and MacKinnon, no hardware beyond Landskogs Calder which many thought Gallagher should have won, and have had no ppg players.

What am I missing?

 

[Cotton]

That's certainly not a knock on the forward core. That's a knock on the defensive core. The Avs players/core are younger and have had more success. The only player on Toronto I would not trade in a heartbeat for one of Colorado's main three is Kessel.

Landeskog will be better than JVR. All of the offensive tools are at the same level but JVR looks buttery soft compared to Landy.

Duchene is and will be better than Kadri (he has already proven that he is a franchise number one centre).

MacKinnon looks like a franchise #1 centre.

RoR is a defensively superb forward that can play wing and centre and produce as a top 6 player. I'm not as keen on him as the other fans seem to be though.

I watch every Leafs and Avs game I can. Colorado's core is insane if they can add a few more defencemen to it. The west is scary.

Holy assumptions batman, the Avalanche board is just off the main where i'm sure you're views will be readily accepted as fact.

 

[Commander Clueless]

We have no chance at cup.

Not true. We have a chance.


Not a very good chance, granted. But there's a chance.


Unless they bomb this road trip and fall out of the playoffs. Then yeah, we have no chance.


As far as prospect pool goes, we're good not great. I think the drafting has been decent in recent years, but the problem is we have been moving our top prospects to the NHL quickly because of our NHL situation, whereas other teams can get away with not doing that and having better pools. Also, we give picks away like candy.

Still, not a bad showing from our prospects. Here's hoping for a gem or two.

 

[hotpaws]

That's certainly not a knock on the forward core. That's a knock on the defensive core. The Avs players/core are younger and have had more success. The only player on Toronto I would not trade in a heartbeat for one of Colorado's main three is Kessel.

Landeskog will be better than JVR. All of the offensive tools are at the same level but JVR looks buttery soft compared to Landy.

Duchene is and will be better than Kadri (he has already proven that he is a franchise number one centre).

MacKinnon looks like a franchise #1 centre.

RoR is a defensively superb forward that can play wing and centre and produce as a top 6 player. I'm not as keen on him as the other fans seem to be though.

I watch every Leafs and Avs game I can. Colorado's core is insane if they can add a few more defencemen to it. The west is scary.

Holy assumptions batman, the Avalanche board is just off the main where i'm sure you're views will be readily accepted as fact.

What assumptions did he make make ?

Are you actually arguing that Kadri is on the same level as MD or that McKinnon isn't looking like a elite player in the making ?

Or is it you think JVR is a better two way player than Landeskog or maybe you don't think ROR is a quality two way player ?

Please enlighten us to what assumptions you think he's making .