THN's NEW prospect report (Toronto)

Northernguy10

Registered User
May 26, 2013
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Timmins Ontario
That's actually the femur, but yeah, the guy will wreck you.

Puzzled they have Percy so low. I like what I've seen from Granberg in the AHL this year. Team leading +18. Have to think he'll be in the NHL sooner rather than later.



We've both been following prospects long enough to know that amateur rankings bear little towards actual results.
...Exactly.Just using the Marlies as one example of our prospects, you'd think they'd be near the bottom of the standings with a young, lowly-ranked team of prospects.Projecting every player in every organization is a crap shoot. It's fun for fans though i guess...Something to read and comment on.
 

Northernguy10

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May 26, 2013
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But this does need to change. Holland,Gardiner,JVR,Bolland,Bernier,Kessel,Phaneuff all drafted by other teams. We have thrown away too many picks and now it shows. Other than defense we are barren. In 5 years of sucking we came up with Kadri and Reilly.

Leivo will replace Lupul ?! What a fantasy. Biggs a 4th liner? Wow, glad we traded up to get that guy. Ross and Devane worth a 2nd and a 3rd rounder? The only forwards we have that are worth mentioning were taken late Johnsson ,Brown and Broll.

Chicago is the model,draft well,when they demand money trade for picks and draft well again. Otherwise you just waste money on 30 yr olds in decline.
... Lupul himself didn't have a distinguished career before coming here and is nowhere near the player he was before his concussion ( I like him and hopefully he gets his "mojo" back) but there is no way of knowing if Leivo can one day can replace himone day.But it's no different then any organization. You don't know who, of your prospects, will be able to take it to the highest level (NHL)...It's always fun speculating though.
 

Northernguy10

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May 26, 2013
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6 years of rebuild, how close are we to Chicago?
...How long was Chicago bad before they put their present organizational system into place?..It certainly was much longer than 5 or 6 years. When the system is as barren of young players/prospects you don't turn it around in 5 or 6 drafts. Burke acquired some good players with some gutsy trades and now a more patient Nonis took the ball and is moving forward more methodically.They managed between them to make a horrible NHL team competitive with some decent prospects in the system.Not sure what's expected in 5 years based on where we were 5 years ago.
 

hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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...How long was Chicago bad before they put their present organizational system into place?..It certainly was much longer than 5 or 6 years. When the system is as barren of young players/prospects you don't turn it around in 5 or 6 drafts. Burke acquired some good players with some gutsy trades and now a more patient Nonis took the ball and is moving forward more methodically.They managed between them to make a horrible NHL team competitive with some decent prospects in the system.Not sure what's expected in 5 years based on where we were 5 years ago.

I wanted to be sitting here with the assets Col has .
 

Northernguy10

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May 26, 2013
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I wanted to be sitting here with the assets Col has .
...Fair point. I'd have to go back through , say the last 10 years to compare the two organizations.Where they came from and how they developed but obviously they (Colorado) would be a model to emulate. I've been a Leafs fan for 56 years and the frustrations over the last 46 years have been enormous. What a circus for most of those years. I was against the Burke hiring but I remember 5 years ago saying "If , in 5 years, we have a young competitive NHL team, a young AHL team with decent prospects and some reasonable prospects in the junior, college and European leagues I'd say we were "starting" to finally be on the right track. We've done that, in my opinion but obviously we have to take the next, very difficult step now.Do we have the executive, coaching, scouts in place?...We'll see over the next 2-3 years.
 

Holymakinaw

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May 22, 2007
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I wanted to be sitting here with the assets Col has .

Colorado has McKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly & Barrie. Toronto has Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Gardiner & Reilly.

Colorado's system is ranked 21st overall(on this site). Toronto's is ranked 23rd overall.

Grass is always greener, eh?
 

hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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Colorado has McKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly & Barrie. Toronto has Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Gardiner & Reilly.

Colorado's system is ranked 21st overall(on this site). Toronto's is ranked 23rd overall.

Grass is always greener, eh?

Colorado's grass is much greener .
 

Trainspotter

Registered User
May 28, 2013
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Did Burke inherit 'empty cupboards' or 'elite prospects'.
We all know what you're going to say.

Well, the marries team that Burke inherited had just had arguably the best regular season in the clubs history.

'Result oriented business. Everything else is hot air'. Fine. But using your precise argument, Brian Burke inherited ELITE best of the best prospects.
So why was Burke able to accomplish so little with the ELITE prospects he inherited?

Check the average age on the key players on the two teams. Just for starters, the average age of the top 10 scorers on the 2007/8 team was 25. This year it's 22. The current group of top 10 scorers includes 60% in-house picks while the former group had just 30%.

The leaders and big minute guys on the 2007/8 team were AHL vets like Ling, Muir, Murphy, Newbury, etc. The current team relies on guys with much less time in the league and a lot fewer miles on the clock.

Don't look now, but three guys under 23 that Bourke drafted in the first round played key roles in the NHL club winning last night. Kadri and Gardiner with goals and Rielly playing a big part at both ends of the ice.

Jiri Tlusty was the lone recent 1st rounder Bourke inherited.

I sure hope you don't work in a produce store with the way you mix apples and oranges.
 
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thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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A team like Edmonton could be a competitor a year ago. They just had to be willing to send Yak out and another star like Ebs. They could easily get 4 top 6 players and some draft options and then use those and some futures for ready D and what have you. They like us are going about this wrong though, not sure we have the assets to revamp over a couple seasons but we could improve greatly if willing to sacrifice young to complete the core.

We need players 25yrs old upto 28 and older D.

It's becoming clear we will not compete with...

Franson
Gardiner
Ranger
Clarkson
Orr
Raymond
Bolland

I would like to see

JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Kadri ??vet??
Kules ??vet?? ??vet??
Ashton/D' Holland Bodie

Dion Gunner
Gleason ??vet??
Rielly Percy/Gran?

We may actually be able to do this with making a profit on picks to an extent too!
 

highslot

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
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I checked my mail and found I received a new Hockey News mag last night which was their annual prospect report issue, and I thought I would share were we are league wide.

Notes:
-The top-50 prospects are considered A-prospects, 51 to 75 are considered B-Prospects and the rest are C's and D's.
-Your average NHL player would be rated a C.
-This year 17 NHL scouts and various GM's contributed.
-Players who have played, or are playing enough quality minutes to assume they will play 50 NHL games are not considered prospects any more, so guys like (Trouba/Maata/Lindholm and Rielly) aren't included, otherwise i'm sure Rielly, who was formerly 14th, would be near the top this year.
-The grading system has to do with a teams entire pool of prospects, so a team like Pits with two A prospects sits 19th overall while Florida with only one A level prospect can sit 3rd, or Carolina with ZERO A or B level prospects sits 6th.

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS (Rank 28th)

"No risky business; Leafs haven't hit one out of the park, but they've restocked bare cupboards.

If you were to pick one word to describe the Toronto Maple Leafs' philosophy at the draft, it would have to be "Safe". After years of trading away picks and prospects, the organization's focus has been to restock the cupboards by taking low-risk, low-reward players instead of trying to swing for the fences. That was certainly the case with 2013 first-round pick Frederik Gauthier, who the Leafs project as a No.3 center. 'You have to rate the risk-reward factor versus a guy you know is going to be an asset," said Dave Morrison, Toronto's director of amateur scouting. "He might not be flashy, but you know he'll be an asset."

Our Top-10 Prospects

#1 Frederik Gauthier, C, 18, Rimouski (QMJHL) Ranked 61st of top 75
Teams can overvalue their prospects. But the Leafs are realistic about Gauthier's future. "Is he going to be a big scorer in the NHL?" Morrison said. "Probably not. But he's going to help us win hockey games." Gauthier projects to be a third line center. That might not sound like much for a first-round pick, but it was the role he played for Canada at the world juniors, where he killed penalties, took defensive zone faceoffs and was used in a shutdown capacity.

#2 Matthew Finn, D, 19, Guelph (OHL)
A year ago, Finn finished outside the top 30 among OHL defenseman in scoring. This year, he is in the top three. What's the difference? "He's healthy," said Morrison. Finn missed 27 games and played through Mononucleosis last season. Now the Guelph captain is on his way to joining Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner on a young Leaf blueline. "He's having a terrific year on a terrific team," Morrison said. "He has the potential to be on the power play."

#3 Andreas Johnson, LW, 19, Frolunda (Swe.)
The Leafs do not take many chances, but they took a gamble on Johnson when they selected him in the seventh round. So far, it's paying off. The forward, who recently made the jump to the Swedish League, is having a breakout year after helping his country reach the final at the world juniors. "He's a small player, but protects the puck well and has a high IQ," Morrison said. "He has the ingredients that will help him over here."

#4 Connor Brown, RW, 20, Erie (OHL)
When the Leafs selected Brown in the sixth round, all anyone talked about was his minus-72 rating. Two years later, he was the first to reach 100 points in all of major junior. While playing with projected 2015 top pick Connor McDavid has helped, the two have been split up for half the season. "I don't think it's just McDavid," Morrison said. "In Browns draft year, he had 53 points as a 17-year old out of tier-II. So, it's not unexpected."

#5 Petter Granberg, D, 21, Toronto (AHL)
You'd think Granberg, who matched up against Steven Stamkos at the world championship, would be an NHL'er by now. But the Leafs have been patient, keeping him in Sweden for three years before bringing him to North America. Now, it is just a matter of waiting for a roster spot. "A year ago, he looked like he was going to be an NHLer," Morrison said. "We didn't know how long it would take to make the transition. By the looks of it, it won't be long."

#6 Andrew MacWilliam, D, 23, Toronto (AHL)
The stay-at-home defenseman's game is about punishment. "He hits to hurt," Morrison said.

#7 Greg McKegg, C, 21, Toronto (AHL)
Ice time limited during the lockout, but McKegg is aiming to become a point-per-game scorer in the minors.

#8 Josh Leivo, LW, 20, Toronto (AHL)
A right-handed left winger like Joffrey Lupul. Toronto sees top-six potential with this power forward.

#9 Tyler Biggs, RW, 20, Toronto (AHL)
Compared to Milan Lucic on draft day, Biggs is developing into more of a fourth-liner.

#10 Stuart Percy, D, 20, Toronto (AHL)
Doesn't hit or score, but he possesses sufficient hockey IQ to become another Carl Gunnersson.

lol at putting percy below biggs or mcwilliam and calling him a gunnarson. he's much smarter and faster. the only one who is comparable is probably granberg, who i think is smarter as well.

both have top 4 potential in their careers.

leivo is also at least a b prospect. he's shown he can play 3rd line minutes. is he at lupul's level? not even close. can he be? if lupul had noticeably less pure skill. leivo is an nhler though.
 

Holymakinaw

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May 22, 2007
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Toronto
What do you find so amusing about a fwd core of

MacKinnon - 18
Landeskog - 21
Duchene - 23
ROR - 23

That you think that group is automatically "better" than a group of Kessel(26), JVR(24), Kadri(23), Reilly(20) & Gardiner(23).

It's not.

At all.

Try to erase the conditioning that tells you that every other team's players are worth more than ours. I know it's been drilled into your head on sites like this one, by non-Leaf fans for years & years, but it's simply not true any more.

:)
 

hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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That you think that group is automatically "better" than a group of Kessel(26), JVR(24), Kadri(23), Reilly(20) & Gardiner(23).

It's not.

At all.

Try to erase the conditioning that tells you that every other team's players are worth more than ours. I know it's been drilled into your head on sites like this one, by non-Leaf fans for years & years, but it's simply not true any more.

:)

WTF has Reilly/Gards done to be even considered close to the Avs players i have mentioned ? You really have to stop with this victim mentally too many Leaf fans seem to have developed .
 

TheTotalPackage

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Sep 14, 2006
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Colorado has McKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly & Barrie. Toronto has Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Gardiner & Reilly.

Colorado's system is ranked 21st overall(on this site). Toronto's is ranked 23rd overall.

Grass is always greener, eh?

I'd take Colorado's forwards and Toronto's d-men.
 

Holymakinaw

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May 22, 2007
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Toronto
WTF has Reilly/Gards done to be even considered close to the Avs players i have mentioned ? You really have to stop with this victim mentally too many Leaf fans seem to have developed .

I hear the word "sheep" thrown around a lot. I understand why.

What has Duchene done, that is "better" than Kessel? McKinnon might be the best of the bunch one day. Maybe. Right now, it's Kessel.

What has Landeskog ever done, that propels him way past JVR? Nothing yet, that's for sure.

O'Reilly better than Kadri? Different types of players, yes. Better? Nope.

And Morgan Rielly got 21 points as a 19 year old, and is on pace for 30 in his 1st season. Have any of Colorado's current group of young D-Men ever done that? Johnson, I guess. But that just means they are comparable, which is what I said.

Gardiner is VERY comparable to Barrie.

Colorado has some DYNAMITE young core pieces, and I never implied that they didn't. But so do we. To act like one group is miles better than the other is SILLINESS.

Why be silly?
 

hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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I hear the word "sheep" thrown around a lot. I understand why.

What has Duchene done, that is "better" than Kessel? McKinnon might be the best of the bunch one day. Maybe. Right now, it's Kessel.

What has Landeskog ever done, that propels him way past JVR? Nothing yet, that's for sure.

O'Reilly better than Kadri? Different types of players, yes. Better? Nope.

And Morgan Rielly got 21 points as a 19 year old, and is on pace for 30 in his 1st season. Have any of Colorado's current group of young D-Men ever done that? Johnson, I guess. But that just means they are comparable, which is what I said.

Gardiner is VERY comparable to Barrie.

Colorado has some DYNAMITE young core pieces, and I never implied that they didn't. But so do we. To act like one group is miles better than the other is SILLINESS.

Why be silly?

Col's core is younger and already better with a much higher upside than ours . I also never mentioned how much better i thought they were . You added the " miles better " to try to defend your opinion .
 

Holymakinaw

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May 22, 2007
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Toronto
Col's core is younger and already better with a much higher upside than ours . I also never mentioned how much better i thought they were . You added the " miles better " to try to defend your opinion .

Oh okay. So how much "better" are they, then? 1 or 2% better? 3% better?

If that's the case, and it's such a minor percentage & they're THAT close to each other, then I certainly did overreact and apologies will be forthcoming.

Let me know and I'll get working on something for you.

:)
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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That you think that group is automatically "better" than a group of Kessel(26), JVR(24), Kadri(23), Reilly(20) & Gardiner(23).

It's not.

At all.

Try to erase the conditioning that tells you that every other team's players are worth more than ours. I know it's been drilled into your head on sites like this one, by non-Leaf fans for years & years, but it's simply not true any more.

:)

This is a prospect thread and Kessel wasn't a prospect even on the day he first arrived in Toronto let alone today, having already completed his ELC and already making $5.4 mil.

If one is including Kessel then we might as well be talking about Crosby and Toews etc.
 

Holymakinaw

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May 22, 2007
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Toronto
This is a prospect thread and Kessel wasn't a prospect even on the day he first arrived in Toronto let alone today, having already completed his ELC and already making $5.4 mil.

And Duchene, Landeskog, and O'Reilly are not considered "prospects", either. Haven't been for years now.

Or did you just want to eliminate Toronto players from the convo, for some inexplicable reason? ;)

He and I were talking about two team's CORES, as well as their prospects.
 
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hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
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Oh okay. So how much "better" are they, then? 1 or 2% better? 3% better?

If that's the case, and it's such a minor percentage & they're THAT close to each other, then I certainly did overreact and apologies will be forthcoming.

Let me know and I'll get working on something for you.

:)

I don't need you wasting time spinning numbers to try to prove how similar these two groups of players are .

ROR-MD-GB are already better 2 way players than PK-JVR-NK are and they're also much younger as a group .

McKinnion is already producing at a high high level at 18 and we have no one comparable to him .

Reilly has a high offensive upside but Gards development has flat lined . Barrie is having a better season then Gards and EJ is playing well and is still only 25 .
 

johnny_rudeboy

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Mar 20, 2006
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Colorados young top forwards are so much more talented then our group it is not even close. They are also younger.
And if you look at our young forwards they all struggle with the defensive aspect of the game while Colorados young forwards are already very good defensively.
 

Lebanese Leaf

Registered User
Sep 19, 2009
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Toronto, ON
I don't need you wasting time spinning numbers to try to prove how similar these two groups of players are .

ROR-MD-GB are already better 2 way players than PK-JVR-NK are and they're also much younger as a group .

McKinnion is already producing at a high high level at 18 and we have no one comparable to him .

Reilly has a high offensive upside but Gards development has flat lined . Barrie is having a better season then Gards and EJ is playing well and is still only 25 .

Col's forward group is better, I agree. But I like our future D group better. If I had to rank the core pieces on both teams according to I think will be best, I'd go:


- Mackinnon
- Kessel
- Rielly
- Duchene
- JVR
- Kadri
- Landeskog
- O'Reilly
- Barrie
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
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More pathetic analysis from THN.

That top 10 is awful in itself, and Finn has better draft status and performance than half the guys on their top-75 list.

Conveniently Rielly misses the game cutoff on the very day this write up is published, while guys like holland, ashton, abbott also don't make their dubious prospect cutoff marks.

Just an unbelievably useless write up - its wrong on so many levels its impossible to even start arguing it.

Leafs are one of the best and youngest teams in the nhl, marlies are one of the best and youngest teams in the ahl, and we have prospects ripping up junior and europe. Ranking them even middle of the pack would be dumb - ranking them near the bottom is just funny.
 

Holymakinaw

Registered User
May 22, 2007
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Toronto
Colorados young top forwards are so much more talented then our group it is not even close. They are also younger.
And if you look at our young forwards they all struggle with the defensive aspect of the game while Colorados young forwards are already very good defensively.

That's not altogether true. Kessel and JVR are two of the most talented and dominant forwards in the NHL, and Kadri is no slouch either. McKinnon looks like a Superstar in the making, but Kessel already is one. In case anyone hasn't been paying attention, he's 2nd in the NHL in scoring right now, and only Stamkos, Ovechkin and Perry have scored more than him the last three years.

I'd say overall their forwards DO have an edge over ours, but it is pretty close. And our young D simply have much higher ceilings than theirs.
 

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